Carnauba on its Final Leg??!!!

I

imported_dpeezy415

New member
While browsing the web today I ran across this article:



Is Carnauba Paste Wax A Dinosaur?



It's troubling, but it makes perfect sense. Hard to imagine the detailing world without carnaubas (but I'm sure many pros have known this for awhile).



It will be interesting to see the change in its process. Pretty soon we'll be saying, "I remember when we used to use wax from trees to get our cars to shine..."



Is it a good or bad thing? To me, it doesn't matter because the process will happen NO MATTER WHAT. So be prepared.



With that said, anyone want to buy full or 99% full jars of P21S, Trade Secret, #16 or Nattys?



Just kidding...



On another note, now there is a forum about car detailing over at bettercarcare.com. What will be the future of Autopia?
 
Reading that article, I have said the same thing. I find that my "waxes" are less used and my sealants are almost like top choice. I think my reasoning behind my choice is the durability and protection for my car. My car is daily driven and the area I live in is CONSTANTLY under construction meaning more air pollutants and debris everywhere compared to some other places. Sealants have seemed to be proven technology for protection against the elements. Waxes although look great and even "different" then sealants, I often worry about the protection factor if I dont have time to re-apply every few weeks. I'm sure with technology moving along the way it is, sealants "looks" will improve over time along with the protection abilities it already has. I will still keep my P21S and I still plan on buying Souve, but in the end what will be underneath, will be a durable sealant.
 
dpeezy415 said:
While browsing the web today I ran across this article:



Is Carnauba Paste Wax A Dinosaur?



It's troubling, but it makes perfect sense. Hard to imagine the detailing world without carnaubas (but I'm sure many pros have known this for awhile).



It will be interesting to see the change in its process. Pretty soon we'll be saying, "I remember when we used to use wax from trees to get our cars to shine..."



Is it a good or bad thing? To me, it doesn't matter because the process will happen NO MATTER WHAT. So be prepared.



With that said, anyone want to buy full or 99% full jars of P21S, Trade Secret, #16 or Nattys?



Just kidding...



On another note, now there is a forum about car detailing over at bettercarcare.com. What will be the future of Autopia?
Click to expand...



Carnuaba's will always have a place in my arsenal as thay make an excellent final topper over some of the more popular sealants.
 
Carnaubas are great toppers. There's always room on my shelf for them. However, with the general public who dont know any better or dont have the time, sealants are probably the better choice for protection.
 
Was very surprised when reading that article



I've never liked synthetic waxes but a pure paste carnuaba wax, especially p21s is unbeatable on top of 3 - 7 coats of acrylic, ceramic and super polymer sealants

By themselves, both pastes and synthetics don't have the power to last like a sealant



Instead of getting rid of them, simply use them on top of sealants

VOC regulations have nothing to do with a pure paste wax. It's 100% natural wax



I agree with you mad ix, for the average motorist, sealants are the better choice

Having said that, most of them do no more than wash their cars
 
I knew when I wrote the article that it would stir up some discussion. The idea for the story came to me while trying to find a "topper wax" for the Sonus line. Three wax makers said "come back later, because our product is no longer VOC compliant..." and two of them said their new paste wax product would not contain Carnauba. I asked if the new wax would be as good as or better than the current product at creating a deep, dark, wet-looking finish, and the chemists all said better. The chemists who would speak to me said that Carnauba has little to do with those three qualities.
 
SVR said:
VOC regulations have nothing to do with a pure paste wax. It's 100% natural wax
Click to expand...



Sorry SVR, but you are a little of kilter there mate.

VOC's are the solvent carriers that are present in pretty much every product that "hazes" - the hazing is the carrier evaporating and leaving the product behind. Those products that haze rapidly generally contain strong solvents, or a large amount of solvents - its these products ( rightly or wrongly ) that are coming under scrutiny. Water can be used as a carrier, but it takes a lot longer than a solvent to flash, but importantly remains VOC compliant. Most use a blend of water and a small amount of solvent to achieve a balance in both worlds.



The market is slowly progressing towards synthetics, so in reality I guess it was only a matter of time. Years ago, sealants would have been the uber products reserved for the very fortunate, now it looks to be doing a full swing in the opposite direction. I guess it will mean that carnauba will only be available in those mega expensive Zymol waxes in the future?!? :o
 
Will a synthetic (polymer) replace a natural (Carnauba) wax?

IS CARNAUBA PASTE WAX A DINOSAUR?



That a chemist wants to replace a natural product with a synthetic comes as no real surprise. To cite the new VOC regulations as being the culprit for there demise IMO is just marketing hype. Zymol have been using non-solvent oil since its inception. Using oils as opposed to PD solvents will increase its price (I am not suggesting that this is the reason for Zymolâ€â„¢s high price, I think itâ€â„¢s a case of â€Ëœwhat the market will standâ€â„¢) compared to a synthetic and make it harder to sell there is no doubt in my mind.



Thus far no polymer can produce â€Ëœdepth of shine and very few are clear and will not cloud by adding â€Ëœlayersâ€â„¢ after a period of time. The only exception thus far to some these problems have been overcome by Zanioâ€â„¢s products, but it still has the â€Ëœsterileâ€â„¢ look of a polymer albeit very shiny.

JonM
 
David,



Very interesting and well-written article! What comes across makes a good amount of sense, though I do believe there are bigger fish to fry with regard to the environment. The global shift towards becoming environmentally friendly continues to pick up steam, as is evident by the emergence of "normal" hybrid vehicles (those with adequate power and styling), recycling and stricter pollution laws within the last 25 years or so.



I can see why VOC requirements have changed, but for me there is something satisfying and rewarding about using an organic product on some of the cars I do. It is old technology, but it is effective. Unless carnauba can be replicated with regard to the benefits it produces on dark colored cars, I will always be a faithful user of #16 (or at least until my 1.5 tins of it run out)!
 
I wonder if it is the distortions created by the wax which appeals to so many in the same way a lot of valve amps distort (in a pleasant way) the sound.



I am excluding the paint protection aspects from my thoughts
 
Lowejackson said:
I wonder if it is the distortions created by the wax which appeals to so many in the same way a lot of valve amps distort (in a pleasant way) the sound.



I am excluding the paint protection aspects from my thoughts
Click to expand...



I have always described Carnauba show car waxes as having a "warm" look. I beleive it is the distortion that creates this effect.



db
 
I have mixed feelings about this article but David could be right given the VOC regs.



I really like the carnauba look even after using sealants. I think it creates a wet look that few sealants can create. Like David, I would truly hate to see my beloved Souveran and P21S go.



As long as I can I will keep doing either AIO + P21S or AIO + Souveran on my silver ES. I think a combination of the two produces the best results.



Thanks David, Lynn and Mike for adding some new articles to the BCC site. :)



One question I have regards the new discussion forums on BCC. Why not combine the two sites into one "super-site" for detailing? We might get more posts and more streamlined maintenance...
 
Same here, Lee.



I had stopped using wax for a long time ,went back to it and especially on black,I like the look it gives over a sealant alone. Now, whether or not the carnauba content is responsible for that or not, well, :nixweiss



I'm very open to synthetic based products that supercede or provide an even "better" or "nicer" look. Looks like the future of the industry may offer some very exciting products.
 
SilverLexus said:
One question I have regards the new discussion forums on BCC. Why not combine the two sites into one "super-site" for detailing? We might get more posts and more streamlined maintenance...
Click to expand...



Yea, I thought we had a happy family going here.. Autopia-Carcare, Autopia.org, and BetterCarCare.. Seems like BetterCarCare is poised to become a supersite :nixweiss
 
I agree that while in general sealants are superior to carnaubas, few people can deny the special look carnaubas give. Use them both, be happy!
 
Just a thought about technology in the industry...



The evolution of car-care today has evolved into something wonderful, and there is no reason why we cannot adapt to a change in our LSP choices either...



How would the industry be different without...



Klasse?

Microfibers?

Innovative manufacturers like Meguiars who are constantly improving their products? (Seems like there's something new/being discontinued every month!)



Or even computers? I can safely say that I wouldn't have such a well maintained vehicle if I did not happen to stumble upon this site.



FWIW, I am thankful to all that are involved in this industry (including Autopians) and it will be FUN to watch how we evolve with it...
 
SilverLexus said:
One question I have regards the new discussion forums on BCC. Why not combine the two sites into one "super-site" for detailing? We might get more posts and more streamlined maintenance...
Click to expand...



Lee,



The new BCC forum is specific to discussing the BCC articles and the products available in the new BCC store.



The Autopia.org community will continue to be an open environment for discussion of all products and points of view. I will continue to update and expand Autopia.org with new features and opportunities.



I am trying my best to separate my business interest from the Autopia community. Yes, The Perfect Shine, LLC foots the bill for Autopia.org, but it is important to me that we (detailing enthusiasts) continue to have a place to openly discuss all products and points of view.



At the same time, it is necessary for me to grow my business. Creating the Better Car Care forum and store will allow me to meet this goal while allowing Autopia.org to go in its own direction.



db
 
Quote: I am trying my best to separate my business interest from the Autopia community. Yes, The Perfect Shine, LLC foots the bill for Autopia.org, but it is important to me that we (detailing enthusiasts) continue to have a place to openly discuss all products and points of view.



Thank you for providing us detailing enthusiasts with a 'non-product specific forum' , a dying forum format in todays buisness first (and I'm certain we all realize necessary) environment.

JonM
 
Very Interesting article. This time of year, I'm noticing more "springtime" posts on "help with my process", "new to detailing", etc. A few recent posts about Pinnacle Souveran, is it worth the $$$, People expect too much out of an LSP, etc., made me think about when was the last time I used a carnuba. I'm a regular Zaino user and I'm seeing last falls application dwindel away (especially on the front end).



So this past Sunday, I went at my car with the intention of using some carnuba to hopefully get me to my spring detail (just haven't had the time). I did a regular wash with NXT, spot clayed my front end and went sifting through my goodies and saw #16, S100 and Liquid Souveran (they were towards the back, even behind some unopened products). I actually dusted off the Liquid Souveran and quickly did the front end. Without any prep work on the paint, I was kinda thrown back by the wettness LS left.



There is no point of my post. I'm just rambling.



I'd like to say Thanks to David and his team for running Autopia and cranking out great articles that make me think and learn :)
 
Carnauba waxes will always have a place in my heart. ;)



Seriously, I will likely never not top a sealant with a carnauba unless I am simply rushed for time (lately I have too much of it).



One thing that really stood out to me in the article was the mention of carnauba not being perfectly clear by using the milky excess in crevices as an example. I have never used a LSP (or what could be a LSP) that did not have a milky appearance. Using the same logic, wouldn't sealants also not be perfectly clear? I am sure there is some validity to the article's point but I'm not sure using excess product in crevices to further the point actually proves anything.
 
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