Carnauba "Mythbuster".

lbls1 said:
I'm sorry, but that is not going to cut it. First of all, it is universally known that the grade of carnauba farmed from Brazil is rated starting at Yellow #1.
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If you mean that the top grade is yellow #1, you're correct. It's all lower grades from there that range from tan/brown carnauba to nearly black. There arent higher grades than yellow #1.



lbls1 said:
Second, the information you gathered is from a supposedly well known importer. Not a problem. The problem is that the importer ships the product. This importer is not a manufacturer, or a physicist, or a chemical analyst or scientist that has a knowledge of the chemistry and the composition of carnauba and any or most natural waxes, and the industry formulation of wax consumer products.
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Supposedly well known import? Check their website =P Strahl & Pitsch Inc.. . If you're under the assumption that all they do is import bags full of wax and sell bags full of wax, then that is incorrect. Wax is exported in powder format, it's the importers job to refine the wax and categorize it. They are much more of a refinery just as they are a seller. A quick phone call to them will verify this to you since you never believe anything I type. :)



lbls1 said:
My source in post #27 was published by a chemical scientist that had done extensive research and analysis of many forms of waxes, and according to his text, the method that was described in his book seriously contradicts what you are saying that this importer describes as being the method of manufacturing "white carnauba."
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Scan in the text and show us the method. If you're so convinced I'm wrong (which I'm not), then prove it with quantifiable data. You've mentioned you have a source for a chemist who wrote a book but dont tell his name, the book name, the text that can prove it. Being argumentative is not my style, you just continue to push me in a corner and say "Hey! You're wrong!". Since I've done my job to verify data, it's your turn to do yours.



-Ben
 
Ben,



I read this thread with great interest, and I have received several requests for it to be locked. In the spirit of free information exchange, I have allowed it to keep going. However, I now have my own point of view.



You present and argue your point as if you have something to prove and or gain. I suspect this all started out of an issue you have with your own supplier over wax pricing. If so, well, the rules of the community are pretty clear and as a vendor it's not an appropriate position to take. Its very transparent, as was your blatant copying of another web vendor's web site design (yep, I received complaints about that, too).



The fact of the matter is, product pricing is a function of supply vs. demand. It has nothing to do with the cost of the raw materials, per se. If the market can get 500% markup, it will. If the market struggles to get 50% markup, a smarter person will come along and re-invent the market. Guess what? Smarter people are coming!



Now that you have made your point, I would like for you to stop using Autopia.org for your own personal gain. You're welcome to stay, but stop your personal positioning and grandstanding. It's not appropriate for a vendor. You are biased!
 
DavidB said:
Ben,



I read this thread with great interest, and I have received several requests for it to be locked. In the spirit of free information exchange, I have allowed it to keep going. However, I now have my own point of view.



You present and argue your point as if you have something to prove and or gain. I suspect this all started out of an issue you have with your own supplier over wax pricing. If so, well, the rules of the community are pretty clear and as a vendor it's not an appropriate position to take. Its very transparent, as was your blatant copying of another web vendor's web site design (yep, I received complaints about that, too).



The fact of the matter is, product pricing is a function of supply vs. demand. It has nothing to do with the cost of the raw materials, per se. If the market can get 500% markup, it will. If the market struggles to get 50% markup, a smarter person will come along and re-invent the market. Guess what? Smarter people are coming!



Now that you have made your point, I would like for you to stop using Autopia.org for your own personal gain. You're welcome to stay, but stop your personal positioning and grandstanding. It's not appropriate for a vendor. You are biased!
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:sign :tribe: JK
 
Ben,

Not to beat a dead horse, I provided the text in the link of post #27 of this thread, in its entire wording. Its pointless to re-iterate it now. The point I'm making is that I am not convinced of your argument or its claims, and despite some good points raised, you haven't demonstrated the validity of your argument with adequate supporting facts, data, etc. Yes, it is very important to back-up arguments that you are demanding us folks to believe that are true with sufficient evidence.
 
Gumball said:
I'll keep it simple and stick with my pro car beauty products Yellow paste wax! It works beautifully and its 20 bucks per tub! Deep shine every time! I refer to my theory as the KISS theory! "Keep it simple stupid" LOL! Works for me......



..........................................................C;)
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that pro yellow wax is great i havea tub of it. great shine!!!!
 
DavidB said:
Ben,



I read this thread with great interest, and I have received several requests for it to be locked. In the spirit of free information exchange, I have allowed it to keep going. However, I now have my own point of view.



You present and argue your point as if you have something to prove and or gain. I suspect this all started out of an issue you have with your own supplier over wax pricing. If so, well, the rules of the community are pretty clear and as a vendor it's not an appropriate position to take. Its very transparent, as was your blatant copying of another web vendor's web site design (yep, I received complaints about that, too).



The fact of the matter is, product pricing is a function of supply vs. demand. It has nothing to do with the cost of the raw materials, per se. If the market can get 500% markup, it will. If the market struggles to get 50% markup, a smarter person will come along and re-invent the market. Guess what? Smarter people are coming!



Now that you have made your point, I would like for you to stop using Autopia.org for your own personal gain. You're welcome to stay, but stop your personal positioning and grandstanding. It's not appropriate for a vendor. You are biased!
Click to expand...



David,



Feel free to delete this thread and all of my posts. I'm here as an industry professional providing educational information, and additionally as a hobby as I enjoy the sharing of information and learning about products and detailing. I have not promoted products of *any* companies in this thread. Everything I have said here is truthful and accurate information. We've never had any issues with any of our suppliers, not over quality nor price. I dont know where you conjured that idea from, but it is false. As for your accusations that we copied a competitors website, they are defamatory and misleading and we have invoices and receipts and design templates to prove it.



The only reason for so many replies in this thread by myself is really quite simple -- there were so many followup questions and replies. Readers asked questions, I answered. Would you rather me have ignored them? By replying to them I am grandstanding or out for proving myself? I hardly think so. Am I grandstanding in this reply to you? No, it's a goodbye to you.



I appreciate your position as the owner, moderator, competitor, and authority at Autopia, and I think we can all agree that Autopia is a valuable service. If your goal is the same as mine, to see educational information, then by all means that's what I have provided here. If any industry professional makes a post, then are they automatically biased? They are only biased as to the type of information they provide. I have provided absolutly nothing more than truthful data regarding carnauba. That is unbiased information, and information that can be quantified as truth. The notion of "No good deed goes unpunished" certainly rings true in this thread.



This is my last, and final post on Autopia. I wish you all the best of luck.



-Ben
 
Oh, my.



KittensCantSaveThread.jpg
 
benvegas said:
David,



Feel free to delete this thread and all of my posts. I'm here as an industry professional providing educational information, and additionally as a hobby as I enjoy the sharing of information and learning about products and detailing. I have not promoted products of *any* companies in this thread. Everything I have said here is truthful and accurate information. We've never had any issues with any of our suppliers, not over quality nor price. I dont know where you conjured that idea from, but it is false. As for your accusations that we copied a competitors website, they are defamatory and misleading and we have invoices and receipts and design templates to prove it.



The only reason for so many replies in this thread by myself is really quite simple -- there were so many followup questions and replies. Readers asked questions, I answered. Would you rather me have ignored them? By replying to them I am grandstanding or out for proving myself? I hardly think so. Am I grandstanding in this reply to you? No, it's a goodbye to you.



I appreciate your position as the owner, moderator, competitor, and authority at Autopia, and I think we can all agree that Autopia is a valuable service. If your goal is the same as mine, to see educational information, then by all means that's what I have provided here. If any industry professional makes a post, then are they automatically biased? They are only biased as to the type of information they provide. I have provided absolutly nothing more than truthful data regarding carnauba. That is unbiased information, and information that can be quantified as truth. The notion of "No good deed goes unpunished" certainly rings true in this thread.



This is my last, and final post on Autopia. I wish you all the best of luck.



-Ben
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This lacks professionalism (like many of your posts). Its probably best you don't post here anymore.
 
benvegas said:
Everything I have said here is truthful and accurate information. I have provided absolutly nothing more than truthful data regarding carnauba. That is unbiased information, and information that can be quantified as truth.







-Ben
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Well, the problem I have is that you are claiming everything you say as absolute, undisputable fact, when in fact, it's mostly your opinions on the matter of carnauba. Opinions are fine, and everyone has them, but it's not right to represent your opinion as absolute fact. I see no outside sources backing up your opinions and I see no real data presented. While I may agree with some of your opinions, I disagree with others. I think it's fine to dialog about products, so long as everyone is aware they are mere opinions, not represented as bible fact. That is what I find very misleading about this thread, from the start.



Information that can be quantified as "truth" is easily available and accessable for all to look up, read, and digest. Seeing as how I cannot easily verify, prove, or disprove, any of the info you presented as fact or absolute truth, they are merely your opinions. That is a problem.



Mike
 
TigerMike said:
Well, the problem I have is that you are claiming everything you say as absolute, undisputable fact, when in fact, it's mostly your opinions on the matter of carnauba. Opinions are fine, and everyone has them, but it's not right to represent your opinion as absolute fact. I see no outside sources backing up your opinions and I see no real data presented. While I may agree with some of your opinions, I disagree with others. I think it's fine to dialog about products, so long as everyone is aware they are mere opinions, not represented as bible fact. That is what I find very misleading about this thread, from the start.



Mike
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Very well said....I sent him a PM a while back explaining that I had chemists data facts contradicting his so called facts. He never responded.
 
joshtpa said:
Very well said....I sent him a PM a while back explaining that I had chemists data facts contradicting his so called facts. He never responded.
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Please post so we can end this mystery about natural albino carnauba.

TIA
 
I'd sorry to see you go Ben. I think I could detect your educative intentions through the smoke and interpretations/perceptions/preconceptions.



Personal gain? A few extra jars of carnauba? I think it is time for a Zaino mythbusting. Anyone?



Folks, listen to Will's words as well. After all, he is a member of the Anwander family, the manufacturers of Swissol. I think that they do know a few things about waxmaking, don't they?
 
Just a quick add-on: If Ben wanted to generate awareness/personal gain, he could told us a similar marketing driven tale about a special transparent carnauba only he can manufacture - for US$100.000 per tub. Dunno, but I received a different message from his posts.
 
Bence said:
Folks, listen to Will's words as well. After all, he is a member of the Anwander family, the manufacturers of Swissol. I think that they do know a few things about waxmaking, don't they?
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Sorry, but who's Will? Is he in this thread?
 
Great thread....I've learned much more than expected. As usual you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink....
 
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