Car Washing And The Ecology

Thanks for pointing it out. I did not know there was a blog section :)



Very interesting read. Would would have sold it to me was a table or something similar comparing the cost per wash between the methods and its impact.

Just to convince me that it is equally cost effective.



I believe it was discussed before that using ONR was similar in cost compared to a regular wash.
 
As I've posted before, I've already BTDT.



Back when I had the dealership, the powers that be gave me an earful about how I had to set things up to be sufficiently eco-friendly, and I had the same setup installed at my home when I built the home detailing shop.



And no, I never really gave it any thought before learning how things had to pass code at the dealership all those years ago...live and learn. There aren't any regs about it for residential situations in my area but it's just my version of doing things right.



I'm nobody's idea of a tree-hugger, but runoff going into storm drains/etc. simply isn't my idea of being responsible. But I *do* wonder just how bad biodegradable car shampoo/etc. really is :nixweiss Left to my own devices, I'd probably worry more about the oil/grease/etc. that gets washed off of undercarriages and engines (and the sometimes nasty products that are used to do that sort of thing).



Water consumption isn't an issue in my area, which is supplied by a (presumably) inexhaustible aquifer.
 
I do not plan on changing any time soon. Where we live the sewer systems are combined and they do not flow to the river before being treated. So there is no talks of us changing. However, if I was to wash a car where the run off water was going to a waterway I would in fact was differently.
 
I live less than 100 yards from the Pacific ocean on one side of me and 50 yards to the San Diego Bay on the other side. I know exactly where my driveway runoff goes. For me, changing my ways really is the responsible thing to do.
 
DavidB said:
I live less than 100 yards from the Pacific ocean on one side of me and 50 yards to the San Diego Bay on the other side. I know exactly where my driveway runoff goes. For me, changing my ways really is the responsible thing to do.
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Yeah, we are the minority with the combined sewer and sanitary systems for sure. All of our run off goes to a waste water treatment plant and then into the Detroit River. There are a very few outlets from parking lots and streets that run into a near buy creek that then dumps into the river.
 
Most municipal sewer systems actually can't. The Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District is famous for dumping billions of gallons of untreated sewage into Lake Michigan during heavy rain events. It has to pay a steep fine each time this happens, but they consider it cheaper than fixing the faults of the system. That would involve digging up half the city.



Accumulator - I did a test on PB's "biodegradable" APC back in one of my soils classes in college, and it prevented seed germination in all of the plants at concentrations as low as 5ppm. At slightly higher concentrations, it was also able to kill existing plants. Very few things AREN'T biodegradable...the difference is simply how long they take to break down, and of course how toxic they are until that point.



Now that I'm out of college and working full-time (Regional Aquatic Invasive Species Education Specialist), I spend most of my workdays fixing the human-induced problems in our local waters. The fact is, most people wait far too long to change their ways or learn anything about the impacts they have on their local lakes and streams. It's far less costly to be proactive than reactive.



Kudos to all of you that have voluntarily changed your ways to help your local environment.
 
DavidB said:
That's amazing that the sewer system can handle that much water.
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The only thing not going to the sewers, or not supposed to be, is run off water from downspouts and gutter. Those used to be tied into the system but recent changes have forced people to disconnect them.
 
white95max- Hey, good to see you posting :wavey Hope all is well with you.



I'm not all that surprised that the "biodegradable APC" wasn't so biodegradable after all..but wow, it actually *killed* the plants in high concentration huh? Sheesh, and people here get bent about Dawn (which my wife uses as an anti-bug spray on plants with no problems at all). I do wonder if regular shampoos might not be a whole lot better in that regard, but I bet those aren't all the same either.



But anyhoo..I do sometimes forget that people here are doing this stuff in their driveways/etc. I've been doing it in purpose-configured shops for so long that I've come to think of that as normal :o



And hey#2, that's an interesting field you're in!
 
Likewise, Paul... nice to see you again.



Accumulator said:
Sheesh, and people here get bent about Dawn (which my wife uses as an anti-bug spray on plants with no problems at all).
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I also spray down my broad leaf plants with Dawn or Lemon Joy to irritate the whitefly and clean up their mess. Works well and the plants seem to like it.



White95Max said:
Accumulator - I did a test on PB's "biodegradable" APC back in one of my soils classes in college, and it prevented seed germination in all of the plants at concentrations as low as 5ppm. At slightly higher concentrations, it was also able to kill existing plants. Very few things AREN'T biodegradable...the difference is simply how long they take to break down, and of course how toxic they are until that point.
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You know, that's a good idea. I suspect a few products need to be challenged on their claim of being biodegradable. If it kills plants, it isn't eco-friendly in my book.
 
Well, I'd bet just about any product would kill plants at some concentration. 5ppm seems pretty bad to me though. I'm sure runoff from a bucket of car soap & water is higher than 5ppm, so some plants along the driveway might be affected, or aquatic plants near the storm sewer outlet pipe. Then again, the storm water would be diluted by other "fresh" water input, which also contains various pollutants like road salt, oil, lawn fertilizers, etc.

My tests were on corn plants.
 
I'd give it a try if it was readily available otc and at a price that is competitive with traditional soaps, which I believe is the position of most consumers. The reason I held off buying ONR is simply because I'd have to wait for a big order to get it from a etailer.
 
DavidB said:
I live less than 100 yards from the Pacific ocean on one side of me and 50 yards to the San Diego Bay on the other side. I know exactly where my driveway runoff goes. For me, changing my ways really is the responsible thing to do.
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I didn't know you were in San Diego, cool :woot:



In addition to knowing where your runoff goes, know that San Diego has a double sewer system so the runoff goes straight to our ocean, and the sewage from toilets goes in a separate line to treatment facilities. My brother is the head of the storm water division for San Diego County, so I hear about it from time to time over family dinners.
 
I live out in rural NC, I have my own well and septic tank. My yard consists of crabgrass and exotic weeds, it trives on car wash, APC, even solvents can't kill the mighty crabgrass. Oh, I see I have a beautiful green crop of wild onions now, almost looks like grass from 500 feet - distance to the road.



Now, I didn't always have crappy yard. I use to be a part-time lawn maintenance professional LOL! and I spent a ton of money on equipment, seed, fertilizer and chemicals, had a yard people bragged on - then my wife talked me into cheaping out and not getting the weed -n-feed I wanted and the cheap crap killed most of my yard, my yard work and my desire to do this anymore. I paid for all of that myself and I let her ruin it for me. SOOOOOO, everytime she mentions the yard, I tell her I don't have a ^&%$*&%$* dime to spend on it, maybe she would like to try.



Thanks - feel better now!
 
I've been thinking about making my mobile detailing business more eco-friendly quite a bit lately. Just yesterday I did my first ONR wash. I used three gallons of water in total--two for the ONR wash and one with the steam cleaner. I'm happy with how it turned out and I think I'll be doing more of it.
 
Lumadar said:
I didn't know you were in San Diego, cool :woot:
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Yep... a native. Grew up here, moved away via San Francisco, Florida, DC, Atlanta, Orange County, Los Angeles... and now I'm back to stay. It will take a tsunami to get me off my sand bar.



Bostonsfavson said:
I've been thinking about making my mobile detailing business more eco-friendly quite a bit lately. Just yesterday I did my first ONR wash. I used three gallons of water in total--two for the ONR wash and one with the steam cleaner. I'm happy with how it turned out and I think I'll be doing more of it.
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From what I read from other mobile detailers who do it, it's also faster. :up
 
This is a great topic, David.



I sort of cringe to see photos and videos of all of the chemicals being washed down residential driveways into the storm drain systems. Knowing where it all drains to just kinda drives me a little bit crazy.



I'm an architect and I routinely deal with runoff issues, oftentimes some unusual ones. I practiced in San Diego for 22 years ('83-'05) and designed projects for the San Diego Zoo & Wild Animal Park for about 10 years.



One problem that we had were the outdoor exhibits - the runoff is considered sewage but the volume would overwhelm the system. The storm water people at the city didn't want it flowing into the bay and the sewer system people didn't want it to overwhelm their system...



The solution was to design a retention pond system, for "storm created sewage". :wow:



Oh, I lived in San Diego for 22 years after growing up in Huntington Beach for 22 years. Now I'm in Big Bear Lake, presumably for another 22 years. It's much sunnier, up here which I prefer.
 
great topic David, and one that has become close to my heart recently as well.



I also believe in ONR, thanks to the people on here, and have sold off all my conventional products and converted primarily to ONR. In the UK we have a different water situation with legislation, but no real differences in the mechanics of drainage. I recently 'walked' the journey of my surface water drains, and posted it on DW here (I hope you dont mind the link ;)) and although I live about as far as its possible to get from the sea in the UK, it still doesnt take long before the wash water from my driveway reaches the local wildlife :(



I'm also about to start trying a waterless product and dont see the math in quite as bad a light as you suggest.... My washing machine only uses 20 gallons per wash (still more than an ONR wash obviously) but it is also suggested I only need a few MF's per car, and my estimate is that I could run 1 wash cycle for 4-5 clean cars. In reality that is pretty much the same amount of wash water. The waste from my washing machine goes to sewage disposal and is readily broken down in there. I just havent proven to myself yet that this is a safe wash process, but we'll see.....



Great discussion and I look forward to following it and seeing the comments of others. I do believe that there will have to be change, and that in the UK, Europe and US its inevitable that change will come, and our age-old wash methods will soon become obsolete from legal, environmental and technological advances ;)
 
Our Gov. is pushing for a 20% reduction in water useage and there is more coming. I am glad that the State Water Control may fine cities up to 10k per occurrence when they find water use in violation--detailers not in compliance. I am working with my local city to try and change its easy license procedure for anyone with $30. In the future, I hope they do like Vista and Calabasas.



I am meeting with the Creeks division on Thursday for a demo and plan to be certified by them as water smart. I have bigger plans, but this is step one in the flow chart of my marketing plan.



Big Bear! My brother moved there for years for the same "sunny" reason. He love sto fly and knew he could fly more by living there.



Bob- Let's have lunch in April. I will be in Coronado and training with Prentice.



Off to do report cards!



Rob Regan
 
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