Car has been corrected too many times what products do you reccomend

E

estcstm3

New member
Hi All,

I have a paint gauge and the paint is all reading around 80um so i do not want to do any correcting. What specific products are out that can help fill the marring wash induced swirls that will last more than a wash or two since i dont want to risk taking down the clearcoat?

Also what are your typically paint thickness readings for the cars you are correcting, what numbers give you pause?

Thanks!
 
I`d go with Black Hole or White Diamond Glaze depending on the color , top it with a wax or sealant and you`re good to go for at least a few months ...
 
If its black I love Poor boys Natty`s black wax, hides a lot of small scratches and marring. If you want to get crazy Black hole followed by Natty`s black.
 
What they said.

I have the exact same problem with my `93 Audi (INSERT usual rant about the "detailer" who trashed it for the original owner) and while I`m using different (and no longer available) stuff, that`s the ticket.

And work on wash technique so you don`t mar it any more than it already is. I gave the `93 one last correction many years ago, and it`s still getting compliments today.
 
My `96 Jeep`s paint is old, oxidized, defect ridden, etc.... Some spots are way too thin for any serious correction. Add to that, it`s an off-road vehicle that I take to the trails on occasion. I plan on brushing up against things that will scratch and even dent the panels.

My point? Poorboy`s White Diamond is what I will be using to make it look better. Topped with either Liquid Natty Blue, or some EXP sealant (or their other sealant). Not sure which LSP yet.

I have to find time to get this done, however, but will eventually, some day, get it all posted on here. That Jeep needs some serious loving.
 
The montan wax in HD Speed provides the best filling of any product I`ve used. Plus with the VERY fine abrasives you could use it once every 2-3 months for the next 10 years with a soft polishing pad and remove FAR less paint than doing a full correction every 1-3 years. HD Speed is a godsend for thin easily marred paints. You can top it with whatever dedicated paint sealant you like or just use optimum spray wax or your favorite spray sealant and you`ll always have freshly polished, glossy, protected paint.
 
thanks! Its a silver, chevy. I also have a soft paint year 2000 S2000 that i am nervous about taking too much clear off of too. I dont know alot about HD Speed other than its an all in one. What makes it so popular i thought more for the pro as its one step saves time and money but are there reasons the hobbist would want to use it over say just putting on poorboys glaze?

For the glaze no longer found was it the wet glaze 2.0? When i was big into detaling 8 years ago that was all the rage....wonder what happend to it.
 
estcstm3 said:
...
Also what are your typically paint thickness readings for the cars you are correcting, what numbers give you pause?
Click to expand...

That`s one of those "it depends" questions, but I`ll tell ya I have measured as low as 2.8 mils on healthy, 2-year-old Nissan paint, so your 80um is right there with that Nissan. I have measured 7 mils on Volvo. (I can only think in mils after 30 years of doing so).

Here`s a trick... measure the paint in a door jam or two, under the hood, trunk, etc. That`ll be your thinnest paint. There`s shouldn`t be any paint on the surface panels that approach those numbers.
 
LashingStanley said:
The montan wax in HD Speed provides the best filling of any product I`ve used. Plus with the VERY fine abrasives you could use it once every 2-3 months for the next 10 years with a soft polishing pad and remove FAR less paint than doing a full correction every 1-3 years. HD Speed is a godsend for thin easily marred paints. You can top it with whatever dedicated paint sealant you like or just use optimum spray wax or your favorite spray sealant and you`ll always have freshly polished, glossy, protected paint.
Click to expand...

by soft pad would a uro tec white count?
 
I need some "edjification" on paint thickness:
When measuring paint thickness, are you measuring TOTAL cleat-coat and paint/base-coat and primer thickness OR just the clear-coat??
And if it is all three finish substrates (love that word!) how do you know if you have a thick clear-coat or a thin clear-coat, IE, how much does the clear-coat make up of that summed TOTAL paint thickness, since it IS the clear-coat your are correcting/polishing/finishing???
Do paint thickness gauges work with panel putty-filled areas and if not, is this a good way to tell if a panel has been damaged and "repaired" this way??
 
WaxAddict said:
Here`s a trick... measure the paint in a door jam or two, under the hood, trunk, etc. That`ll be your thinnest paint. There`s shouldn`t be any paint on the surface panels that approach those numbers.
Click to expand...

On my 2008 Toyota Yaris, I noticed some of those jam areas are not clear coated. So that just throws (in some cases) another variable into the mix :(


Lonnie said:
When measuring paint thickness, are you measuring TOTAL cleat-coat and paint/base-coat and primer thickness OR just the clear-coat??
And if it is all three finish substrates (love that word!) how do you know if you have a thick clear-coat or a thin clear-coat, IE, how much does the clear-coat make up of that summed TOTAL paint thickness, since it IS the clear-coat your are correcting/polishing/finishing??
Click to expand...

I asked those questions myself many times. Conclusion: You don`t know how much clear coat you are working with. Your average PTG that I see people using read the TOTAL "paint thickness." Some PTGs are high-end fancy units that can indeed measure different layers (clear, base coat, primer) but they`re darn expensive. I doubt most of us would invest in such a tool. At least on the hobbyist level, no way! But my bday is coming up soon, so if you guys want to pool your money together ;)
 
As JustJesus has discovered, you gotta be careful using doorjamb/etc. ETG readings...many vehicles, even really high-end ones, aren`t cleared in those areas or have thinner clear than is on the outer panels proper. And some vehicles have just a very light fogging of basecoat over the primer/e-coat, stuff you can cut through in no time even with the mildest Finishing Polishes. Gee, guess how I know...

Lonnie- The putty messes with ETGs, and one use of them is to discover areas that have filler.

IME the primary use of ETGs are to 1) find unusually thick/thin areas, and 2) give a measuring stick with regard to how much paint you`re taking off (starting thickness vs. resulting thickness).

And IMO if somebody has to do a full correction every few years, in the sense of taking off appreciable clear all over the vehicle, something`s really wrong, probably with the wash regimen.
 
Accumulator:
"Edjificate" me some more: I assume (and this may be the "assume" making an ASS out of U and ME) that by ETG you mean "Electronic Thickness Gauge", which is another way of saying PTG (Paint Thickness Gauge). Semantics..

You are correct about paint/clear coat in door jam or trunk seams/channels. Many American manufacturer`s vehicles DO NOT have sufficient paint in these areas, especially on hinges. It is one of my pet-peeves about such vehicles compared to their imported competition. That and how door sheet metal or trunk sheet metal edges are NOT deburred or finished. I cannot tell you how many times I have cut (not scratched, but cut) my fingers on sharp edges or welding burrs. I guess they figure the only "idiots" dumb enough to put their hands in those areas (where NO ONE should ever be, hence WHY they are unfinished) are vehicle detailers. My Subaru`s I previously owned were pretty nicely finished, both paint and sheet metal-wise in those areas. My current Fords (2006 Freestyle and 2015 Taurus) are not.
 
WaxAddict said:
...
Here`s a trick... measure the paint in a door jam or two, under the hood, trunk, etc. That`ll be your thinnest paint. There`s shouldn`t be any paint on the surface panels that approach those numbers.
Click to expand...

So I`m quoting myself above because I think my advice has been misconstrued. See bold text. I realize that interior panel areas often do NOT have ANY clearcoat. I too burned through this area (a door jam) because it is so thin (and it was a 911!), like Accumulator also alluded to. My point was that if you need a reference of what REALLY IS THIN, measure in these areas. When I took the gauge to my 370Z I was astonished to see sub-3 mils readings, and I was second guessing my gauge (calibration) or reading technique. After measuring a door jam, I was like "no, THAT is THIN". I recall it being like 1.8 mils.

estcstm3`s reading of 80um would have been a normal reading on some panels of that 370Z.
 
WaxAddict- That`s a good way to safely err on the side of caution all right, no argument here. Just wouldn`t want somebody to think "those uncorrected areas in the jamb are X so I can go that low on the hood too".

Lonnie- OOPS, sorry...yeah, ETG = PTG :o

Funny, but my A8/S8 have corner-cutting paintwork in those areas to some extent too (though at least they`re cleared), very different from the `93 which was built right even in the places that don`t show.

And it`s my wife`s A8 that always cuts me! Pretty much every wash, something has me bleeding but good from the undercarriage or under the hood despite wearing gloves.
 
Lonnie -

A Paint Thickness Gauge is really a misnomer from the get-go since all but the most expensive one only measure Total Thickness of the material on that spot only.. And then this is still a not accurate number if the gauge cannot be calibrated, etc...

I use mine to give me a look at the total thickness all over a panel, and I get an average idea in microns of that panel and based on how much work is needed vs how much is being paid for vs this total thickness average, I then tell myself I am going to use these products to try to take off as little as possible to achieve the goal for that work...
And as I have said before, I try to not go more than 1/2 a micron of material removed...

So you can say that the best worth of these gauges is to show you the Baseline and then if you measure in microns, show you how much you are removing off the top which is of course the clear coat or paint if its single stage, etc...

The gauge will also show pretty accurately where there has been body work because those areas are always way higher numbered than areas around them...
So that means there is a lot of bondo, primer, and possibly even extra paint on that place, but again, you cannot ever be sure...

If you want to be the most accurate on the layers of material on a panel, you need to look at one of these --- https://www.autopia-carcare.com/defelsko-positector-200-advanced.html#.Ws5b7S5zb3g

Only around $2,700 plus tax and shipping !!!
I put this on my list to Santa every year... :)
Dan F
 
You could get away with something like CarPro Essence Plus. It`s a jeweling polish that fills in minor defects but leaves behind SiO2 (quartz) protection. Can be maintained with something like CarPro Reload, Gyeon Cure or GTechniq C2V3.

I would think CarPro Essence would be ok on a finishing pad just as mwoywood pointed out with HD Speed as Essence will also fill in defects. Then top it with Essence Plus.
 
Stokdgs said:
.. if the gauge cannot be calibrated, etc...
Click to expand...

Bit of a chore that, at least with my PhaseII.

..I try to not go more than 1/2 a micron of material removed...
Click to expand...

That`s not much, I seem to take off more than that when correcting anything significant. Heh heh, many guys don`t think twice about taking off half a MIL!

... but again, you cannot ever be sure...
Click to expand...

The Jag has five areas that were repainted during its original build, and another one presumably from point-of-import. I`ll probably discover another one/more eventually...sigh..
F[/QUOTE]
 
Accumulator said:
Bit of a chore that, at least with my PhaseII.



That`s not much, I seem to take off more than that when correcting anything significant. Heh heh, many guys don`t think twice about taking off half a MIL!



The Jag has five areas that were repainted during its original build, and another one presumably from point-of-import. I`ll probably discover another one/more eventually...sigh..
F
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]

El Accumulator !

The little AAA battery in my gauge will last longer if I remove it when the gauge is put away..

Wow I don`t know anyone who would want to remove 1/2 Mil = 12.7 microns off of Factory, who knows how much of it is left, Paintwork.. But I DO Know this - anyone removing that much Factory paintwork is Not going to be doing this very long before the OH- NO Alarm goes off.. :)
And sadly, the owner of the vehicle will be in the exact place the OP of this thread is today...

I know, I know, decades ago before thickness gauges came out, we all just spun the wheel and hoped for the best... :)
But also back then, there WAS more paint on panels and that had to help out a lot...

Now we know that the Factory is putting less of that crap-ola water based paint on everything, so I still just take it very cautiously on Client vehicles and even my own..

Other than a short run of really damaged Jet Black BMW vehicles that actually looked a dull dark gray, because they were so destroyed, I have been very Blessed to not have to break out the Lake Country Foam Wool pads.... well, except for those dang airplanes......and that destroyed Porsche Cayenne....
Dan F
 
estcstm3 said:
by soft pad would a uro tec white count?
Click to expand...

Yes, uro-tec white would definitely count. You could even get away with uro-tec yellow as long as you keep your pressure light. What makes HD Speed amazing for enthusiasts is that it`s RIDICULOUSLY easy to use and IME cuts less than most finishing polishes. Guys have tried using HD Speed with heavy pressure and microfiber cutting pads to remove defects in one step, but that is WAY outside the realm of what HD Speed was meant to do. It`s also great because it can be applied to the entire car before removing.

I`m a professional, but I zip over my truck once every 3-4 months with HD Speed and a uro-tec white pad to remove any traffic film, lightly bonded contaminants, and to bring out an unbelievable amount of gloss. Sometimes I top it with FK1000p but usually I just top it with Optimum Car Wax once a month in between my weekly washes.

Another bonus is you don`t have to tape off any of your plastic or rubber trim.

Like Guz mentioned, Essence would be a GREAT option as well. I would say HD Speed & Essence aren`t typical AIO`s in the sense that the abrasives they use are closer to a ULTRA-fine polish rather than products like Meguiars D166, D151, Menzerna 1-step polish & wax which are better suited for 1-step corrections where you are trying to maximize defect removal and leaving behind wax in one step. These products have much higher cutting ability than Essence & HD Speed but they sacrifice finishing ability and overall gloss.

Whether your an enthusiast, professional, or driveway detailer, you don`t know what your missing if you haven`t tried HD Speed. It`s too cheap not to try.
 
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