cannot remove swirl marks!!!
- Thread starter Fobia
- Start date
Accumulator
Well-known member
Fobia- As I learned the hard way on my M3, sometimes you oughta wetsand. My painter told me to do that but *NO* I had to stick with the rotary...should've listened to him.
Noting that some stuff is just too deep to be safely removed, maybe you oughta hit it with some Meguiar's Unigrit, say the 3000. Just enough to take the sheen off the paint, don't get carried away
Then see what it looks like after a pass with the rotary.
Noting that some stuff is just too deep to be safely removed, maybe you oughta hit it with some Meguiar's Unigrit, say the 3000. Just enough to take the sheen off the paint, don't get carried away
Then see what it looks like after a pass with the rotary.check it out... i hate 3m. and im kinda a noob with a rotary!.. but this car was just horrible.. i was leaving trails everywhere!!!!! tips well appreciated.
i moved the pad slowy at 1500 rpms on 3m foam compounding pad with 1500 grit compound this is what i got!!!
no swirl correction... possibly making the paint worse.. because of the trails. good thing it was 't a costumer and just a friend.. but i let the pad glide across buffed till it was clear. and used slow passes.
hood
i moved the pad slowy at 1500 rpms on 3m foam compounding pad with 1500 grit compound this is what i got!!!
no swirl correction... possibly making the paint worse.. because of the trails. good thing it was 't a costumer and just a friend.. but i let the pad glide across buffed till it was clear. and used slow passes.
hood
SVR
Dream Machines
It is best to move away from 3M. I bet that prima swirl, menzerna IP and FP (106 or RD) would take care of them and give you a great finish
Try a light cut pad first. Move up to medium cut if needed.
If using medium cut pad, return to light cut and follow with polishing and soft polish and finishing pad.
Try a light cut pad first. Move up to medium cut if needed.
If using medium cut pad, return to light cut and follow with polishing and soft polish and finishing pad.
imported_WCD
New member
If you were using a cutting product then you will put swirls into the paint, but it should also help with scratches. A polish should fix the swirls. I never go above 1400 rpms and prefer 1200 with a lambswool pad on clears. I did a test a few weeks ago with foam vs. the lambswool. After only 3 passes the temp on the paint was 115 with lambswool and 146 with foam. Heat might be aiding to your frustration. That said, do you know how much clear you are working with? The car we did had been detailed and buffed so many times that the clear was thin. We could not remove some of the fine scratches. Remove more than .3 of the clear and there is going to be trouble. ETG's (paint thickness gauges) aren't cheap, but a great tool to have.
Rob Regan
Rob Regan
audicoupej
New member
I use HT EC and OP 50/50 with a yellow @1500-1900 to cut most VW/Audi clear then finish out with OP with a white LC pad @1100-1400.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Fobia- That pad/product combo sure isn't working for you! Rather than try to "master" it on somebody's car (as opposed to a scrap panel) I'd try something else.
I'd also try working smaller areas so you can see what's happening before you have a large "uh-oh" to correct.
I'm no rotary-Meister by any means, but the results you're getting are a lot scarier than what I get with 3M PI-III ECRC 05936 and that's a mighty aggressive product. Dunno just what's going wrong (too fast, too slow :nixweiss ) but something's not right.
Going from the 1500-grade compound to a finishing glaze seems like too big a jump anyhow. I'd get some milder compound and a medium polish and try to get things good enough to finish out with the PC.
I'd also try working smaller areas so you can see what's happening before you have a large "uh-oh" to correct.
I'm no rotary-Meister by any means, but the results you're getting are a lot scarier than what I get with 3M PI-III ECRC 05936 and that's a mighty aggressive product. Dunno just what's going wrong (too fast, too slow :nixweiss ) but something's not right.
Going from the 1500-grade compound to a finishing glaze seems like too big a jump anyhow. I'd get some milder compound and a medium polish and try to get things good enough to finish out with the PC.
Changeling
New member
WCD said:
Hi WCD, I hope all is well.
What foam pad were you using in the test?
Changeling
SVR
Dream Machines
Today's products don't leave swirls in the paint. It must be your technique.
Ive never put swirling into a cars paint with any level of correction by machine.
Not even with powergloss.
Maybe 20 years ago or more it would as that stuff was nasty crap but today it's not a problem
The only thing you could do is hologramming
Ive never put swirling into a cars paint with any level of correction by machine.
Not even with powergloss.
Maybe 20 years ago or more it would as that stuff was nasty crap but today it's not a problem
The only thing you could do is hologramming
Anthony O.
New member
It would appear that your first mistake was the use of cutting pad and cutting product which most likely introduced more marring.
Always try the least aggressive pad/product combo first and work your way up the scale from there. It's usually best to use a mild polish and a polishing pad, like LC's white pad, first and if the doesn't work then change your pad to maybe an orange pad. If that doesn't work then use then maybe drop back to the LC white pad but this time with a more aggressive product.
You don't always need to jump right away to the cutting stuff.
Most of todays modern clears can be corrected with a mild polish, a polishing pad and rpm's around 1500. Remember that you're buffing on a thin *plastic* film and if you create too much heat on that film not only will you run the risk of thinning and burn through but you'll also cause the scratches you're attempting to remove to be driven deeper into the clear. At that point you reach the total frustration level which doesn't help you in making the right choices.
You won't be able to achieve a swirl free finish until you finish off with the finest pad/polish combo you have, which is usually a 100 ppi pad and a product like FPII or Optimum. Even after that step you may still need to do an orbital step on dark colors to get a swirl free finish.
Anthony
Always try the least aggressive pad/product combo first and work your way up the scale from there. It's usually best to use a mild polish and a polishing pad, like LC's white pad, first and if the doesn't work then change your pad to maybe an orange pad. If that doesn't work then use then maybe drop back to the LC white pad but this time with a more aggressive product.
You don't always need to jump right away to the cutting stuff.
Most of todays modern clears can be corrected with a mild polish, a polishing pad and rpm's around 1500. Remember that you're buffing on a thin *plastic* film and if you create too much heat on that film not only will you run the risk of thinning and burn through but you'll also cause the scratches you're attempting to remove to be driven deeper into the clear. At that point you reach the total frustration level which doesn't help you in making the right choices.
You won't be able to achieve a swirl free finish until you finish off with the finest pad/polish combo you have, which is usually a 100 ppi pad and a product like FPII or Optimum. Even after that step you may still need to do an orbital step on dark colors to get a swirl free finish.
Anthony
well i analyzed the paint before i took to the most aggressive steps last. i went from a green mild abbrasive. to a 1500 compound with a wool pad then a foam compounding pad.. and varied speeds from 900 to 1500 rpm with varied slow smooth motions no pressure on the pad.
what i need. is. people to give me a list of 3 pads finishing(swirl free) med cut and deep cut pads.. and a list of polish and EXACT links to the website wehre the product is listed. if you guys could do that that would help me greatly.. remind you that i work on vw/audi / bmw benz paint almost 90% of the time. thanks chris.
im just not feeling the 3m products.. it is what my work carries and i can clock out and use whatever i want when i clock out.. and that is all they got.
oh fyi.. also when i was buffing.. it seemed like some product was left on the paint .. and it was really hard to buff off with a microfiber... does that mean i did not break the polish down all the way? if there is indeed polish residue left over that is really hard to buff out by hand.?
what i need. is. people to give me a list of 3 pads finishing(swirl free) med cut and deep cut pads.. and a list of polish and EXACT links to the website wehre the product is listed. if you guys could do that that would help me greatly.. remind you that i work on vw/audi / bmw benz paint almost 90% of the time. thanks chris.
im just not feeling the 3m products.. it is what my work carries and i can clock out and use whatever i want when i clock out.. and that is all they got.
oh fyi.. also when i was buffing.. it seemed like some product was left on the paint .. and it was really hard to buff off with a microfiber... does that mean i did not break the polish down all the way? if there is indeed polish residue left over that is really hard to buff out by hand.?
Accumulator
Well-known member
Fobia- I've probably worked more on Audis than on anything else. Some 3M stuff works very well on them (the old PI-III stuff) but generally I'd lean towards Menzerna, Optimum, or Hi-Temp. The Hi-Temp Extreme Cut Leveler is *very* good for the aggressive work and you could always finish with something mild from somebody else.
The best I can do for links is say to check out the websites for Top of the Line Auto Detailing Supplies and Classic Motoring Accessories - Car Care and Detailing Supplies . Sorry that's so vague but I haven't had to buy anything for a long time and I dunno what the latest recommendation oughta be.
LC brand pads work pretty well for me: yellow or orange for cutting, white for medium polishing, gray for finishing. Ditto for the three Meguiar's pads: burgundy for cutting, yellow for polishing, biege for finishing. Nothing fancy but still effective.
It sounds like you used too much product and worked it too long. Generally, if I stop when I oughta (when it's just broken down) the still-damp product wipes off easily, but if I overwork it I have problems buffing off the dried residue.
The best I can do for links is say to check out the websites for Top of the Line Auto Detailing Supplies and Classic Motoring Accessories - Car Care and Detailing Supplies . Sorry that's so vague but I haven't had to buy anything for a long time and I dunno what the latest recommendation oughta be.
LC brand pads work pretty well for me: yellow or orange for cutting, white for medium polishing, gray for finishing. Ditto for the three Meguiar's pads: burgundy for cutting, yellow for polishing, biege for finishing. Nothing fancy but still effective.
It sounds like you used too much product and worked it too long. Generally, if I stop when I oughta (when it's just broken down) the still-damp product wipes off easily, but if I overwork it I have problems buffing off the dried residue.
SVR said:
When I first started using the rotary I didn't break down the polish enough and it would leave swirls in the paint. I even had this happen with RMG and a black LC finishing pad. I had too much RMG on the pad and it put swirls in the paint, so I gave it a spritz with water and kept polishing and the swirls went away. Too much polish will cause swirls with a rotary.
touchofdetail
New member
looks like someone needs practice with the rotary.