Can you top Collinite
- Thread starter Less
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Accumulator
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Less- I've topped both 845 and 476S with other waxes, including Souveran- works fine.
I did use the spit-shine method with Souveran, using chilled, carnauba-rich QDs as the "spit". It improved the look a bit IMO and I was being careful not to just see what I wanted to see
But it wan't a night/day difference, so don't expect it to look quite as nice as straight Souveran; the Collinite is still between the paint and your eyes.
I did use the spit-shine method with Souveran, using chilled, carnauba-rich QDs as the "spit". It improved the look a bit IMO and I was being careful not to just see what I wanted to see
But it wan't a night/day difference, so don't expect it to look quite as nice as straight Souveran; the Collinite is still between the paint and your eyes.MBurnickas
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Waxes do not stack. They have heavy cleaners by their nature, around 45% solvents. You will end up with a mish mash of both products as oppossed to having one wax on bottom and one on top. Give it a try though it's not going to hurt anything.
MBurnickas
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Solvents are cleaners especially in that concentration and all paste waxes have solvents. You can put a coat of collinte and use some acetone and wipe, and see for yourself that it will strip the wax. The reason it doesn't strip the wax when you apply it is because they are bonded together, and applied together, and when the solvent dries, you have a waxed surface that all you have to do is buff the residue. The key is that when you apply the second coat, the solvent isn't dry. And of course they don't use acetone persay but some other solvent that may work slower. Autogeek is pertaining to heavy chemical or more importantly abrasive cleaners as in a cleaner wax that strip oxidation. Waxes do not crosslink, it is not a very popular process to top one wax with another for this reason. You will just end up with one coat of wax. A think it's more popular to say wax more often as opposed to doing multiple coats, but hey have fun expeirmenting, it's not going to hurt.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Simple, but properly controlled, experiments have convinced me that the waxes I use (e.g., Souveran, Collinite 845 and 476S, Meguiar's #16, and Malm's liquid) *DO* layer if it's done properly. The results appeared to be both clear and conclusive to me. Heh heh, I wouldn't waste a second of my life layering if I weren't convinced there's a benefit.
I don't want to turn this into the umpteenth :argue about layering waxes, but first-hand experience has convinced me that it simply *works* the the abovementioned products (and the Malm's liquid was a surprise). The spitshine experiments of Nick T. (MIA and missed), especially the ones involving light marring, convinced him of the same thing. As have the experiences of some resident Zymol users.
Also, trying "like removes like" experiments with Collinite 476S confirmed my earlier findings, but I've only tried that with that one particular wax. Some of these products don't soften/dissolve all that readily once they've "cured" (or whatever they do, I don't claim to be a chemist). In fact, sometimes you have to watch out for "wax build-up".
Less- So...I wouldn't listen to what anybody says. Heh heh, including *ME* and the people I referenced above
Try it for yourself and go by your own observations. But unless you're spitshining, I wouldn't try layering waxes in one session, they need time to do whatever curing/etc. they do (done properly, the "spit" mitigates solvent action and changes the rules).
I don't want to turn this into the umpteenth :argue about layering waxes, but first-hand experience has convinced me that it simply *works* the the abovementioned products (and the Malm's liquid was a surprise). The spitshine experiments of Nick T. (MIA and missed), especially the ones involving light marring, convinced him of the same thing. As have the experiences of some resident Zymol users.
Also, trying "like removes like" experiments with Collinite 476S confirmed my earlier findings, but I've only tried that with that one particular wax. Some of these products don't soften/dissolve all that readily once they've "cured" (or whatever they do, I don't claim to be a chemist). In fact, sometimes you have to watch out for "wax build-up".
Less- So...I wouldn't listen to what anybody says. Heh heh, including *ME* and the people I referenced above
Try it for yourself and go by your own observations. But unless you're spitshining, I wouldn't try layering waxes in one session, they need time to do whatever curing/etc. they do (done properly, the "spit" mitigates solvent action and changes the rules).mikelea4ever
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sure why not!!!!
Accumulator
Well-known member
Accumulator said:
That like sounds more of a flamejob on Slickery than I intended...I just meant that people oughta consider the different points of view and then go by their own experiences.
MBurnickas
New member
I still stick to my statement as I have too waxed many many cars- and ran many tests. Maybe it's time for another one, I have 845 and double coat but no Souveran. I'll try to find a spare panel and settle this scietific like, lol. Will using Natty's instead of Souveran do? I don't mind admiting when I'm wrong, but w/o proof I'm sticking with what I've said. I have tested two coats versus one, but not of a different wax. I guess a good test would be see if adding a second coat of Natty's to a full panel coated with 845 would extend or hinder durabilty, and see if it adds to the look. I guess what Less is after is having the look of Souveran but the durabilty of Collinite. If you have equal durabilty after adding a less durable wax, and gain a wetter look, than Less is the winner. I think it would be an interesting test. Just a friendly challenge not an:argue , we cool?:cooleek:
Slickery, please don't waste your time unless you REALLY want to.
This whole thing is so subjective that whatever results you come up with will be mostly useless.
I've read a ton (as I'm sure you have) about layering waxes, topping sealants with waxes, etc. It just seems that if you can top one wax with itself, why couldn't you top it with a different brand?
All of these products are basically different mixtures of the same ingredients right? So how could they hurt one another, especially when the top layer is something like Souveran which has so little cleaning ability?
I see what your saying about the solvents in the wax, but what I don't understand is why the solvents would only affect the bottom layer if its a different brand. In other words, the solvents in a second coat of the same wax will not affect the layer underneath it, but it will wreak havoc on another brand? That just doesn't make sense.
Now I do know some waxes (like Megs #26) have a slight yellowish color while others are very clear. I can see how mixing those two could yield undesirable results. I guess that was my question to begin with. I'm not worried about the Souveran removing any of the 845, I'm more concerned with their compatability when it comes to color/reflectivity.
This whole thing is so subjective that whatever results you come up with will be mostly useless.
I've read a ton (as I'm sure you have) about layering waxes, topping sealants with waxes, etc. It just seems that if you can top one wax with itself, why couldn't you top it with a different brand?
All of these products are basically different mixtures of the same ingredients right? So how could they hurt one another, especially when the top layer is something like Souveran which has so little cleaning ability?
I see what your saying about the solvents in the wax, but what I don't understand is why the solvents would only affect the bottom layer if its a different brand. In other words, the solvents in a second coat of the same wax will not affect the layer underneath it, but it will wreak havoc on another brand? That just doesn't make sense.
Now I do know some waxes (like Megs #26) have a slight yellowish color while others are very clear. I can see how mixing those two could yield undesirable results. I guess that was my question to begin with. I'm not worried about the Souveran removing any of the 845, I'm more concerned with their compatability when it comes to color/reflectivity.
MBurnickas
New member
Less, I honestly think that test would be interesting. I assume we are all interested in this kind of thing or what are we doing here? Another one would also to mix collinite DC with Souveran and see what you get. I have seen a few tests where people mix two waxes but i don't think I've seen that with Collinite. Anyhow, the one wax I use regularly is Collinite and I do think it is somewhat lacking in wow factor. I will do the test for my own information and gladly share the results. Even if I'm wrong I win because I'll find a way to bring the wow factor to my favorite wax. The main reason I use any protection is for durabilty so I generally don't use other waxes. But hey the few customers I do might appreciate the look more if I don;t sacrifice durabilty. Thanks for the post.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Slickery- It sounds like you didn't take offense at my post, and I'm glad
I always apply more than two coats when layering, and perhaps that colors my opinion/results. And yeah, I do think that it's a good idea to let things "cure" for a while if you're going to try that.
For reference, when I topped 476S with Souveran, it was about three applications (not to say "layers" ) of 476S applied several days apart. Last one sat for a few days before I applied the Souveran. I spit-shined three/four applications of Souveran using chilled Griot's SpeedShine for the spit. This was on robin's-egg blue RM brand b/c, a repaint on my old Volvo wagon. Can't say how long the results lasted because I gave the Volvo to my niece-in-law soon after detailing it. And anyhow, the spit-shining (IMO) mitigated the solvent action of the Souveran anyhow.
On the layering and durability issue, my comparisons were between two/three applications and five/six, the latter exhibiting all the "wax is still OK" indicators for much longer. The applications were always at least one day apart, often longer as I have a shop where works-in-progress stay clean. (Yeah, all controls such as uniformity of timeframe/etc. were observed )
Oh, and applying 476S (four applications) over 845 made for much better durability than two applications 845 alone (same timeframe adjustment, etc.), but that's got a few too many variables for my taste.
One application of 845 shocked me with it's lousy durability! Same with one application of KSG for that matter.
If you decide to do this testing, I'd sure like to hear back about your results, even if they are utterly different from mine. If you don't decide to do it, I understand completely, as I myself don't do a minute's worth of this stuff anymore unless it really needs doing; guess my intellectual curiosity got satisfied a long time ago, now it's just a chore that needs doing now and then. But I still enjoy reading about the results that others get.
Less- There are some very good posts about spit-shining, I suggest you search for the one by Nick T.
The general idea is like when you spit-shine footwear: you apply a coat of wax the regular way and buff it off. Then you spray some water/QD/"spit" on the surface and apply more wax. Buff this application until it basically disappears instead of letting it dry and *then* buffing. Repeat until you're sick of waxing The wax that "disappears" builds up on the surface.
Servicemen/women can tell you how well it works on footwear; they end up with a *THICK* coat of shoe polish (I do the same sort of thing with my dress shoes). Yeah, car wax is different from shoe polish, but it's the same idea.
A variation that I call "pseudo-spit-shining" is to just spray the "spit" on the surface, apply the wax, and then let it dry to a haze before buffing. I get more spherical beading and a slightly better look, but not the same increase in durability. I attribute this to some degree of solvent action on the paint (perhaps what Slickery is talking about) or maybe it's some side-effect from the QD :nixweiss But the durability is *still* better than just settling for fewer applications of wax (I only do this with #16, not sure how it'd work with other waxes).
I always apply more than two coats when layering, and perhaps that colors my opinion/results. And yeah, I do think that it's a good idea to let things "cure" for a while if you're going to try that.
For reference, when I topped 476S with Souveran, it was about three applications (not to say "layers"
) of 476S applied several days apart. Last one sat for a few days before I applied the Souveran. I spit-shined three/four applications of Souveran using chilled Griot's SpeedShine for the spit. This was on robin's-egg blue RM brand b/c, a repaint on my old Volvo wagon. Can't say how long the results lasted because I gave the Volvo to my niece-in-law soon after detailing it. And anyhow, the spit-shining (IMO) mitigated the solvent action of the Souveran anyhow.On the layering and durability issue, my comparisons were between two/three applications and five/six, the latter exhibiting all the "wax is still OK" indicators for much longer. The applications were always at least one day apart, often longer as I have a shop where works-in-progress stay clean. (Yeah, all controls such as uniformity of timeframe/etc. were observed
)Oh, and applying 476S (four applications) over 845 made for much better durability than two applications 845 alone (same timeframe adjustment, etc.), but that's got a few too many variables for my taste.
One application of 845 shocked me with it's lousy durability! Same with one application of KSG for that matter.
If you decide to do this testing, I'd sure like to hear back about your results, even if they are utterly different from mine. If you don't decide to do it, I understand completely, as I myself don't do a minute's worth of this stuff anymore unless it really needs doing; guess my intellectual curiosity got satisfied a long time ago, now it's just a chore that needs doing now and then. But I still enjoy reading about the results that others get.
Less- There are some very good posts about spit-shining, I suggest you search for the one by Nick T.
The general idea is like when you spit-shine footwear: you apply a coat of wax the regular way and buff it off. Then you spray some water/QD/"spit" on the surface and apply more wax. Buff this application until it basically disappears instead of letting it dry and *then* buffing. Repeat until you're sick of waxing
The wax that "disappears" builds up on the surface. Servicemen/women can tell you how well it works on footwear; they end up with a *THICK* coat of shoe polish (I do the same sort of thing with my dress shoes). Yeah, car wax is different from shoe polish, but it's the same idea.
A variation that I call "pseudo-spit-shining" is to just spray the "spit" on the surface, apply the wax, and then let it dry to a haze before buffing. I get more spherical beading and a slightly better look, but not the same increase in durability. I attribute this to some degree of solvent action on the paint (perhaps what Slickery is talking about) or maybe it's some side-effect from the QD :nixweiss But the durability is *still* better than just settling for fewer applications of wax (I only do this with #16, not sure how it'd work with other waxes).
OK, let me chime in here. I've tried the Collinite / Souveran combo. It looked like s**t.
I love Collinite and of course I love Souveran but those two together, IMO, do not look good.
I put on 1 coat of collinite the and the next day I topped it w/ souveran. It wasn't even like
it 'looked ok'. It looked bad. No shine, dull and lifeless. I didn't spit shine it though.
However, I will never try that again.
I love Collinite and of course I love Souveran but those two together, IMO, do not look good.
I put on 1 coat of collinite the and the next day I topped it w/ souveran. It wasn't even like
it 'looked ok'. It looked bad. No shine, dull and lifeless. I didn't spit shine it though.
However, I will never try that again.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Cheetah- Hey, that's interesting! Thanks for posting it.
Sounds to me like it's a good thing I decided (somewhat arbitrarily) to do the spit-shining. Your results seem *exactly* like what Slickery was talking about!
Sorry to hear your vehicle ended up needing a redo, but at least we learned something from it.
Huh...
Posts like yours are a good example of why I like revisiting these topics from time to time, seems like there's always something left to learn.
Sounds to me like it's a good thing I decided (somewhat arbitrarily) to do the spit-shining. Your results seem *exactly* like what Slickery was talking about!
Sorry to hear your vehicle ended up needing a redo, but at least we learned something from it.
Huh...
Posts like yours are a good example of why I like revisiting these topics from time to time, seems like there's always something left to learn.