Can someone explain something to me about polishing?

A

Acura_RL

New member
When the word "polish" is mentioned, I keep thinking of something with a mild abrasive that strips a thin layer of the clearcoat away. However, by reading through these forums and the product descriptions from the manufacturers' websites, these solutions "fill-in" or "hide" imperfections.



So my question is, does the "polish" (such as phase 2 of the Mother's system or Mother's Reflections) strip away your paint? I guess a corallary to this would be, how often can or should you polish your car during the year?



I'm thinking of trying the Mother's 3-step system. I've always been using the cleaner/wax combos, but now I want to take my detailing to a higher step.



Thanks.
 
You are basically on track with your assessment. Polishes can do a number of things including what you mention.



At the very top of this page there are photo icons you can click on. Click on the one that says, "learn!" There are articles that you should read, esp The Perfect Shine and Machine Buffing. You'll learn what to do and how the products work. They should help you take your car care to the next level, as you said.
 
Unfortunately, the term Polish is used to cover a great many products with different applications. The same that "Glaze" has been over used.



Whether a product will polish, glaze or fill is really dependant on each individual product and how it is applied.



A classic example of "Polish" being misapplied is Zaino Z5.



Directly from Zianobros.



"Z5 - Polish for Swirl Marks and Fine Scratches."



Anyone who has used it is well aware of the fact that Z5 doesn't have any cleaning or polish abilities. At the very very very least, it has some filling after layer. However, I am yet to see this myself.



Then you have SEC which is a polish but hardly on the same scale as a SMR which is hardly on the same scale as DACP.



Hence the reason it is very difficult for anyone to give you a hard and fast rule.



Yes all polishes remove a bit of clear. However, the amount is really dependant on the product you are using.



You can safely SMR your car 3-4 times a year for many years and not risk comprimising it.



If you are truly worried about it, the best way it so use a paint thickness gauge to assess the amount that is being removed. Look up paick thickness on the forum and you'll find a few posts about how thick typical paint clears are and how can be removed.



The short of it is, yes polish do remove clear however it is an extremely small amount. However, if you use a wool pad on a rotary with an aggresive polish/compound, you can eat through a significant amount in no time. It really depends what you are using and how you applying it.



I'm not familiar with Mothers 2 phase system so I am not sure the cutting ability of that polish.



Do you plan doing it by hand, dual action or rotary? What type of pads will be using?



Paco
 
I plan on doing everything by hand. I don't have a PC or anything like that.



If we're talking about a "polish" that "fills" or "hides" swirls, then the effects may only last a few days. Some have mentioned on this forum how you can get rid of them for good with some sort of process. But again, everyone has their own way of doing something.



I don't know. I read the article by David, but I'm not in the mood to order anything by mail or pay $70 for a special kind of wax--s100 being the exception. I just want something that looks good and lasts.



I'm thinking of either trying the Mother's system or the Meguiar's system. I'm not too familiar with the products I need for the latter, though.
 
If we're talking about a "polish" that "fills" or "hides" swirls, then the effects may only last a few days. Some have mentioned on this forum how you can get rid of them for good with some sort of process. But again, everyone has their own way of doing something.



True polishes (not Z5) do not have any protection abilities. If you used a product that fills swirls (glazes, SMR etc.), you would need to lock in the fillers with either a sealant or a wax. Otherwise, it'll simply wash off on your washing.



Those 1-2-3 type systems are alright if you can't shell out for the higher end.



I'd be inclined to suggest you using the Mother's version of the Meguiars. There was a thread earlier about it and people seemed to think the Mother's version was pretty good.



By hand, you have two options.



Foam pads or using a terry 100% cotton USA made towel. Based on how well the cotton towel method (folded into 8ths) is working for Scottwax. I'd give it a go that way first. Really work the Pre-wax cleaner in.



Phase 1: Pre-Wax Cleaner

Phase 2: Sealer and Glaze

Phase 3: Natural Formula Carnauba Wax



I'd suggest looking into using the Prewax cleaner then the Reflections polish/wax. A few people have used the reflections and comment how well it looked. However, the carnauba is also pretty good from Mother's.



Also, consider claying first. The Mother's clay is a good one and comes with some QD.



Just remember, work in small sections i.e. 2x2 or 3x3. Work the pre-wax cleaner well into the paint. Considering polishing the way air travel over the car. i.e. not circles but front to back or up and down.



Paco
 
I just used the Meguiars Deep Crystal System with the Scratch-X as well. I posted the results here: http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21370



The Scratch-X did absolutely nothing for me. :angry It was acting more like a filler than an actual polish and the swirls are still there. After using the "polish" in step 2, I got a little better results. THe wax definitely helped. However, I am not fully satisfied with the results. I must admit that I must have been cheap when buying the Meguiars DC system. It is good considering I could have bought the "2001" once a year wax instead! Now I find myself digging into my wallet to purchase something new to get the results that I want. I am thinking along the lines of Zaino. But after what paco was saying does it really polish? I like results that I have seen posted here using Zaino, as well as other products. What would be the better product to use? :confused:



I just realized that I probably turned this into another thread, so I will stop now.:D
 
Heh, thanks for the link. Sorry about that. :D



BTW, after doing some reading in these forums, I've decided to give the Mother's system a green light. One question though: can I substitute Reflections for the phase 2 product (glaze)? Will reflections remove some of my clearcoat?



You guys are awesome.
 
Acura_RL said:
Heh, thanks for the link. Sorry about that. :D
Click to expand...
If you're referring to my post with the link, the scream was just because I hate confusing labelling and it seems to become an "issue" so often. :angry ;)



From what Forrest has said, Reflections is pretty mild, so yes a definitely good plan would be to polish first (assuming your problems are minor enough for Phase 1 to be adequate), apply Reflections, and then wax over it the next day. Similar to people who wax over Meguiar's #20. I don't know how much hiding/filling Reflections would do though.... I imagine it'd be inferior to a glaze in that respect, but that's just my assumption.
 
Thanks. Yeah, I agree about Meguiar's: they're good products no doubt, but I'm just confused what to go with. I'll stick to Mother's. ;)
 
All you have to do is read the link posted by 4DSC is see how much confusion there is about the terms compounds, swirl mark removers, polishes, cleaners, glazes, etc. There is nothing that we, as consumers, can do to change the choices that various marketing departments make.



However, there is something that we can do:

Get a 10X or 14X loupe, available in a good photo shop, a box of cotton balls, and a new sauce pan from K-Mart.



Put small scratches in the pan’s paint with something sharp and hard - like a sewing machine needle. Inspect the marring and you’ll see that they look like a sharp-edged “V�. It’s these sharp edges that make swirls so easily visible.



Get the products that you want to test, put a small dab on a cotton ball, and work a little on one scratch. Repeat on the other scratches with your other products - being careful to use the same amount of pressure and the same number of strokes. Wipe off the residue.



Now inspect the scratches again. With a more aggressive product the edges will have more rounding. With a pure glaze, such as 3M Imperial Hand Glaze, there will be no rounding of the edges. The bottom of the scratches will show how much filler and oil is in each product.



Now wash the test area with a car shampoo, not a dish detergent. This will remove the oils, but leave the fillers. Inspect again for filler content.



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Another good test for you to do to increase your knowledge of your products is to find a piece of metal that has a very good black enamel finish. Use masking tape and mark off a 2� square for each “polishing� product that you want to test. Get a very bright lamp (250W or more - a halogen work lamp is excellent) and your cotton balls. Polish each square with it’s own product, then inspect with the lamp at various angles and the surface at various angles. You’ll be able to see exactly how much (or little) hazing is caused by each product.



All of this sounds like a PITA, but I now know exactly what the products that I use are doing to my paint - and if you do this "playing", you'll also know!



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milani said:


The Scratch-X did absolutely nothing for me. :angry It was acting more like a filler than an actual polish and the swirls are still there. After using the "polish" in step 2, I got a little better results. THe wax definitely helped. However, I am not fully satisfied with the results. I must admit that I must have been cheap when buying the Meguiars DC system. It is good considering I could have bought the "2001" once a year wax instead! Now I find myself digging into my wallet to purchase something new to get the results that I want. I am thinking along the lines of Zaino. But after what paco was saying does it really polish? I like results that I have seen posted here using Zaino, as well as other products. What would be the better product to use? :confused:
Click to expand...



Well I was lured by the DC system, but then when I saw #7 and #26 on the shelf, I decided to substitute those for steps 2 and 3 in DC. All I got from DC was the cleaner, and the labeling claims that it will remove swirls, but we'll just have to see about that. Maybe it's something that has to be used a few times to bring out the effect of a swirl-free finish.
 
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