DetailGirl said:
DetailGirl
The cost of the wax is $42.50 Canadian (32.25 US) and shipping from canada Post is $7-10 Canadian (5-7 US) depending if it is air or ground delivery. If you are still interseted e-mail me at d-swicklund@telus.net.
DSVWGLI
Can Carnauba Be Layered?
- Thread starter WAX2MUCH
- Start date
DetailGirl
The cost of the wax is $42.50 Canadian (32.25 US) and shipping from canada Post is $7-10 Canadian (5-7 US) depending if it is air or ground delivery. If you are still interseted e-mail me at d-swicklund@telus.net.
DSVWGLI
ChicagoVTX
New member
DSVWGLI
Is the wax you are talking about Victoria Wax.
http://www.victoriawax.com/concourswax.htm
http://www.victoriawax.com/default.htm
Is the wax you are talking about Victoria Wax.
http://www.victoriawax.com/concourswax.htm
http://www.victoriawax.com/default.htm
imported_speedracer
New member
ALAN81 said:
I agree, I put two coat of wolfgang on and then do three layers of Souveran after that I think you are wasting your time and money.
ALAN81
No problem. I didn't know they had free shipping now, have not been on the web site in a while. I've been using this wax for a year or so and can honestly say it's the best wax I've ever used. Make sure you use the red wax as it will give you the best results, especially on dark colors. I also use the yellow wax but only on my bumpers and bottom of car or on silver or light colored cars. Application is a little different, you use your bare hands. The heat of your hands is the first catalysis in the bonding process. I have foud Using your finger tips to pick up a little wax is best. Then apply it to about a 2 foot square area by dotting the whole area with your finger tips and then massage in. Wait about 1 minute and buff off. Enjoy!
DSVWGLI
No problem. I didn't know they had free shipping now, have not been on the web site in a while. I've been using this wax for a year or so and can honestly say it's the best wax I've ever used. Make sure you use the red wax as it will give you the best results, especially on dark colors. I also use the yellow wax but only on my bumpers and bottom of car or on silver or light colored cars. Application is a little different, you use your bare hands. The heat of your hands is the first catalysis in the bonding process. I have foud Using your finger tips to pick up a little wax is best. Then apply it to about a 2 foot square area by dotting the whole area with your finger tips and then massage in. Wait about 1 minute and buff off. Enjoy!
DSVWGLI
togwt
The Old Grey Whistle Test
Quote: Carnauba wax layering
~ One man’s opinion / observations ~
Carnauba wax once it cross-links it becomes a transparent layer on top of the paint film surface and provides colour, depth and clarity that are without equal.
These wax molecules form an egg-grate type mesh over the smaller paint molecules of the paint film surface, which gives it an optical depth. Carnauba wax is inherently hydroscopic when exposed to water; wax swells and closes its pores, which along with surface tension, causes `water beading'
By applying more products on top of one that has already cross-linked you can increase its density (up to a point) The thin film of product that's applied isn't really another layer.
Each subsequent applications adherence process is that the solvents work their way into the microscopic gaps and valleys of the previous `layer' thereby creating an anchor, and by surface tension, when the paint film surface is level there is little benefit to adding more.
A level paint film surface improves the paint film surface's desired optical properties (i.e. surface reflectance, clarity, gloss, and depth of shine)
Carnauba Wax diminishes over time (via evaporation [dependant upon ambient temperatures] rain, water, and environmental conditions), which limits its durability. As a general rule-of-thumb: 50% after 30 days, 75% is gone after 60 days and after 90 days it should be reapplied
The purpose of applying a protective coating to automotive finishes is to act as a sacrificial barrier. Then you can reapply another coating to replenish the wax that has worn away.
~ Hope this helps ~
Knowledge unshared is experience wasted
justadumbarchitect / so I question everything/ Jon
~ One man’s opinion / observations ~
Carnauba wax once it cross-links it becomes a transparent layer on top of the paint film surface and provides colour, depth and clarity that are without equal.
These wax molecules form an egg-grate type mesh over the smaller paint molecules of the paint film surface, which gives it an optical depth. Carnauba wax is inherently hydroscopic when exposed to water; wax swells and closes its pores, which along with surface tension, causes `water beading'
By applying more products on top of one that has already cross-linked you can increase its density (up to a point) The thin film of product that's applied isn't really another layer.
Each subsequent applications adherence process is that the solvents work their way into the microscopic gaps and valleys of the previous `layer' thereby creating an anchor, and by surface tension, when the paint film surface is level there is little benefit to adding more.
A level paint film surface improves the paint film surface's desired optical properties (i.e. surface reflectance, clarity, gloss, and depth of shine)
Carnauba Wax diminishes over time (via evaporation [dependant upon ambient temperatures] rain, water, and environmental conditions), which limits its durability. As a general rule-of-thumb: 50% after 30 days, 75% is gone after 60 days and after 90 days it should be reapplied
The purpose of applying a protective coating to automotive finishes is to act as a sacrificial barrier. Then you can reapply another coating to replenish the wax that has worn away.
~ Hope this helps ~
Knowledge unshared is experience wasted
justadumbarchitect / so I question everything/ Jon
So it would be safe to say the layers meld together. Another important factor is this melding of layers is not just with carnauba. For the most part protective barriers will dissolve and reform when the solvent they are borne in is applied to the surface. Acrylics, resins, carnauba's, amino-functionals are all prone to this behavior. There is a time when it becomes more of an excercise than beneficial. About 2 times seems to be the magic number.
foxtrapper
New member
Nope. Acrylics cure with a chemical reaction taking place. As such, acrylics do not disolve upon having a second layer placed upon them. Once they have cured, they are done. A second layer is exactly that, a second layer laid down upon the first.
Carnuba wax is an organic product that does not set, it simply dries. That's a huge difference. It re-disolves when placed in contact with the solvents and liquid agents in the fresh application. The second application disolves the first application.
togwt
The Old Grey Whistle Test
Quote: Nope. Acrylics cure with a chemical reaction-taking place. As such, acrylics do not dissolve upon having a second layer placed upon them. Once they have cured, they are done. A second layer is exactly that, a second layer lay down upon the first.
~ One man’s opinion / observations ~
The chemical reaction that takes place is the off gassing (evaporation) of the solvents, Acrylic resins therefore cannot ‘lay down one layer upon another because of these solvents
Acrylic resin:
Amino functional resins are small, very dense molecule system that adheres to the paint film surface by a mechanical process. The acrylic resin solvents allow the dense molecule to spread and cross-link forming a hard protective surface.
~ Hope this helps ~
Knowledge unshared is experience wasted
justadumbarchitect / so I question everything/ Jon
~ One man’s opinion / observations ~
The chemical reaction that takes place is the off gassing (evaporation) of the solvents, Acrylic resins therefore cannot ‘lay down one layer upon another because of these solvents
Acrylic resin:
Amino functional resins are small, very dense molecule system that adheres to the paint film surface by a mechanical process. The acrylic resin solvents allow the dense molecule to spread and cross-link forming a hard protective surface.
~ Hope this helps ~
Knowledge unshared is experience wasted
justadumbarchitect / so I question everything/ Jon
We may have to agree to disagree on this one.
Agreed there is a chemical reaction with acrylics. There is also a chemical reaction with carnauba’s or any other polish or wax. Drying/curing is a chemical reaction.
With regard to acrylics, nearly all car care chemicals, at least the acrylics talked about in this forum, are designed as a semi-permanent coating. Certainly there are acrylics designed to form a more permanent coating but are vastly different than those in car care chemicals. The design of semi-permanent coatings are that they can be removed rather easily while the design of permanent coatings is they cannot be removed easily. IMO, permanent coatings can be layered semi-permanent cannot.
You could perform a simple test. On a sample piece take the acrylic product that can layered and apply multiple layers. If one layer sets on top of the other it would be safe to assume at some point you would be able to visibly scrape those layers off. It would be interesting to know how many layers you would have to apply to reach that point.
Agreed there is a chemical reaction with acrylics. There is also a chemical reaction with carnauba’s or any other polish or wax. Drying/curing is a chemical reaction.
With regard to acrylics, nearly all car care chemicals, at least the acrylics talked about in this forum, are designed as a semi-permanent coating. Certainly there are acrylics designed to form a more permanent coating but are vastly different than those in car care chemicals. The design of semi-permanent coatings are that they can be removed rather easily while the design of permanent coatings is they cannot be removed easily. IMO, permanent coatings can be layered semi-permanent cannot.
You could perform a simple test. On a sample piece take the acrylic product that can layered and apply multiple layers. If one layer sets on top of the other it would be safe to assume at some point you would be able to visibly scrape those layers off. It would be interesting to know how many layers you would have to apply to reach that point.
ChicagoVTX
New member
DSVWGLI said:
I have not used them yet they are on the wish list
I would have to disagree with some of those comments as well, based on my experience. Let's see some technical data that has been published which has observed wax characteristics in terms of layering. I would be interested in viewing some data based on lab tests.
In every instance, I have found that carnauba wax will layer almost perfectly, and there are distinct differences between two, five, nine, and fifteen coatings. However, let us see some expert opinions based on published tests of wax characteristics, and lets hear what some of that information would say.
In every instance, I have found that carnauba wax will layer almost perfectly, and there are distinct differences between two, five, nine, and fifteen coatings. However, let us see some expert opinions based on published tests of wax characteristics, and lets hear what some of that information would say.