Burning Paint with PC 7424
- Thread starter calhoun1
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Accumulator
Well-known member
GoudyL said:
Huh? Right, they don't conduct heat the same as metal panels, but that just means that you do them a little differently.
I've *NEVER* had a problem machine polishing plastic panels, let alone fiberglass. Never. Not on factory paint (freshly built or not), not on repaints (freshly done or not). Not with a rotary, a Cyclo, or a PC. Via PC/Cyclo it's easy; just a matter of feeling the panel after every few seconds of polishing until you learn how it goes (which is how you learn to do it by rotary too).
Paint can have defects. These can cause problems. And, well..[stuff] happens. But to never machine polish plastic panels... :think:
Accumulator said:
I know, right?
I just ease up on speed and pressure when unsure. I can always increase one or the other a bit gradually and check the surface to make sure everything is okay. However, to lean on any paint hard and just hold the pad in place is asking for trouble.
Accumulator said:
Acc, you are experienced, the OP is a newbie. The OP managed to wreck the paint on his bumper using a machine polisher.
Just looking at it, you can see that this was heat mediated damage, vs abrasive damage. The heat from the polishing softened the paint film, and the mechanical action tore it away from the bumper substrate.
That you (and other experienced folks) on autopia would not (would be much less likely) do such a thing is not very relevent. The OP put himself in a situation where serious damage was possible, and the smarter course of action is to say to folks w/o serious experience is that they should not machine polish plastic panels. It will save them grief.
More generally, why is the OP machine polishing a brand new car, in the first place? What benefit can accrue from this?
If you are experienced enough to be able to argue with my points, then my advice probably doesn't apply to you.
GoudyL said:
Many brand new cars come with marring and swirls.
Apparently, he was using a finishing pad with 85RD. Indeed, thats what a lot of guys use for jeweling.
That is hardly abrasive at all, removing almost no clearcoat, esp. with a PC.
Maybe he should have used Turtle Wax Ice Polish.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
GoudyL said:
Most new cars come with the Dealer-Installed Swirl Option (DISO), so many of us have had to radically polish new cars.
Edit: Oops...Craig beat me to it on this one.
SuperBee364
New member
efnfast said:You really think poor lil' cyclo can generate enough heat and pressure to go through clear, through paint, and right into the primer, in under 10 seconds, with the pads moving over the area (i.e., not fixed in 1 spot) on remotely healthy paint?
IMO, not a chance. There was definitely some sort of flaw in your case. In the OP's case, however, there wasn't a flaw; that plastic melted right at it's designed melting point.
Accumulator
Well-known member
GoudyL- I kinda figured you'd reply with something about my experience and we can just agree to disagree (without being disagreeable 
).
I figure I *got* experienced by doing such stuff (gotta be a first time, or first hundred..), and I've trained enough newbies (including my then-elderly father) to genuinely believe that anybody can do this sort of thing without problems if they have the requisite mindset and knowledge base. That might be the kicker though...people (the kind of people I seldom associate with) often astound me with the things they do.
But *with* the right mindset/knowledge base people can do stuff like this via machine that they simply cannot do otherwise.
Eh..I'm possibly just used to people who are comfortable with irrevocable decisions, you know...used to the "I simply *cannot* make any mistakes here" mindset.
Heh heh...I often feel like I'm arguing different sides of the same argument with you and bufferbarry; I'm always telling you that people should get more aggressive than you'd like, and OTOH I'm always telling *him* that the cc thinning he does scares the pants off of me!
Between the advice of guys like you, guys like me, and guys like bufferbarry, people here can sure get a wide range of opinions; hopefully they'll pick the choices that are right for *them*.
Oh, and I too have had to correct *every single* new vehicle I've ever bought (that's quite a few!), unless I took the transit-wrap off myself. Every one of 'em had some dealer (or shipper)- instilled marring. When I was a kid doing new-car prep at the local dealership, they even came off the truck with flaws that were simply awful.
).I figure I *got* experienced by doing such stuff (gotta be a first time, or first hundred..), and I've trained enough newbies (including my then-elderly father) to genuinely believe that anybody can do this sort of thing without problems if they have the requisite mindset and knowledge base. That might be the kicker though...people (the kind of people I seldom associate with) often astound me with the things they do.
But *with* the right mindset/knowledge base people can do stuff like this via machine that they simply cannot do otherwise.
Eh..I'm possibly just used to people who are comfortable with irrevocable decisions, you know...used to the "I simply *cannot* make any mistakes here" mindset.
Heh heh...I often feel like I'm arguing different sides of the same argument with you and bufferbarry; I'm always telling you that people should get more aggressive than you'd like, and OTOH I'm always telling *him* that the cc thinning he does scares the pants off of me!
Between the advice of guys like you, guys like me, and guys like bufferbarry, people here can sure get a wide range of opinions; hopefully they'll pick the choices that are right for *them*.
Oh, and I too have had to correct *every single* new vehicle I've ever bought (that's quite a few!), unless I took the transit-wrap off myself. Every one of 'em had some dealer (or shipper)- instilled marring. When I was a kid doing new-car prep at the local dealership, they even came off the truck with flaws that were simply awful.
SuperBee364 said:IMO, not a chance. There was definitely some sort of flaw in your case. In the OP's case, however, there wasn't a flaw; that plastic melted right at it's designed melting point.
I'd definately believe that, but I'd also like to believe people still have enough common sense to identify why something happened - the only way that much (melt) is probably going to happen is if he was really hammering that spot (too much pressure, not enough travel, etc...), which id sure doesn't sound like based on the pad/product combo.......in which case I'd expect him to have enough sense to realize it was his own fault.
Kind of like how if somebody changed their oil, was draining it, then mid-way through went into the house for a few hours, came back, forgot they hadn't filled it up, then drove their car and seized it. I would expect them to (if they were silly enough to look for more attention, lol) post online about how they f'd up their oil change due to forgetfullness, not should they fill up their engine with oil and have it towed back to the dealership and blame them.
But maybe i expect too much =)
Accumulator said:GoudyL- I kinda figured you'd reply with something about my experience and we can just agree to disagree (without being disagreeable
Don't forget you're arguing with the guy who spent PAGES trying to convince everybody that you don't need any form of agitation to clean a vehicle, as a car wash sprayer will remove 110% of all dirt (heh)
craigdt said:
Well he certainly managed to remove a good chunk of clearcoat, basecoat, and primer with that combination.
Let me put it this way, if he had used Turtle Wax Ice Liquid, his car would now be the subject of an appreciative click and brag thread, rather than being the subject of a thread entitled "Burning Paint with PC 7424". :2thumbs:
That said, on such a new car, I would not apply anything (even TW Ice) to the paint untill its had time to finish curing.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
GoudyL said:
Here we go again..it was cured before it left the factory.
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
Goudy - Do you have any evidence that new OEM paint takes 90 days to fully cure? Even if it wasn't cured, polishing, compounding and/or sanding is perfectly fine when done by a Professional.
Food for thought from a reputable source in the industry: Both the 1K and 2K systems are 90-95% cured upon cool down, after the bake process, in the factory spray booth. The additional 5-10% will cure within 3-7 days. This means that by the time any vehicle reaches its destination at a dealer, the paint is fully cured.
Like others mentioned, inexperience caused this misfortune, NOT the product/process. Turtle Wax Ice Liquid won't hold a candle to a perfectly polished new car finish (when quality products are utilized). And if he did do a Click N Brag with it TWI, he'd most likely get a very low amount of responses because there's not too much to brag about when using that product.
Food for thought from a reputable source in the industry: Both the 1K and 2K systems are 90-95% cured upon cool down, after the bake process, in the factory spray booth. The additional 5-10% will cure within 3-7 days. This means that by the time any vehicle reaches its destination at a dealer, the paint is fully cured.
Like others mentioned, inexperience caused this misfortune, NOT the product/process. Turtle Wax Ice Liquid won't hold a candle to a perfectly polished new car finish (when quality products are utilized). And if he did do a Click N Brag with it TWI, he'd most likely get a very low amount of responses because there's not too much to brag about when using that product.
David Fermani said:
In this case was it done by a professional? Or just by someone using professional tools.
No, that's a load of rationalization. Without the PC 7424, he could not have melted the paint like that, no matter what his level of experience.
IMHO we have alot of folks who are quite nervous, that this could happen to them, perhaps when they least expecting it.
It will look a heck of lot better than melted paint. :sosad
And if he did do a Click N Brag with it TWI, he'd most likely get a very low amount of responses because there's not too much to brag about when using that product.
Dave, you continue to impress me with your lack of good manners.
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
Great answer Goudy! It's just like watching Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man as your Savant Syndrome comes out...You should definately look into branding a line of detailing products at your day job for people on the autistic spectrum.....oh, sorry, you already have, it's called Turtle Wax Ice.
SuperBee364
New member
GoudyL said:
Oh, now that is just *hilarious* coming from you. Thanks for the chuckle!
Accumulator said:GoudyL- I kinda figured you'd reply with something about my experience and we can just agree to disagree (without being disagreeableIt's always something.
I pretty much share that exact same attitude, which in turn requires a certain sense of risk aversion, and appreciation for how little we know. But overconfidence is a curse, especially for the overconfident with power tools.
One of my favorite analogies is that life is not a video game, because you are forced to keep playing. There is no way for the OP to reboot the xbox, and replay the "Machine polishing my car" level.
Bostonsfavson
New member
GoudyL said:[quote name='Accumulator']GoudyL- I kinda figured you'd reply with something about my experience and we can just agree to disagree (without being disagreeableIt's always something.
I pretty much share that exact same attitude, which in turn requires a certain sense of risk aversion, and appreciation for how little we know. But overconfidence is a curse, especially for the overconfident with power tools.
One of my favorite analogies is that life is not a video game, because you are forced to keep playing. There is no way for the OP to reboot the xbox, and replay the "Machine polishing my car" level.
Dude, please stop. You're embarrassing yourself.
TortoiseAWD
New member
Well, this thread has gotten full of snark, hasn't it? Those of you taking personal pot shots at others . . . stop it. Time to shut it down.
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