Brilliant black, not so brilliant and neither am I...

C

CaliPhotog

New member
I think I am the only person on the planet that can't seem to get the PC to work properly. I thought I just needed practice, and I'm sure that's it but apparently I need allot more than I thought. I went to remove the dealer installed swirl marks from my Audi A3 and I am more screwed now than I was before. Also, this is my fourth try at it. Is it possible that I have eaten away the clear with the PC already. I think there is no way, but I can't explain what is happening any other way. My brilliant black color looks NOTHING like all the other cars at the dealership. It used to be the same, but now it has a milky look to it. Don't know any other way to describe it. If you look at the color in the sun, it looks like it has a muted light beige/milky coating ALLOVER the car, except for the little area above the windshield between the windshield and the open sky sunroof. Any ideas? Is it marring from the PC, or did it screw up my paint major? thanks
 
I take it that is the orange power pad, which is a leveling pad, correct?



If so then you most likely had no need to use that pad a new car unless it was badly marred. You should of just went with the polishing/finishing pad and the ssr1.



I don't use the PC or the srr line so I can't be of much more help than that, sorry.



Anthony
 
I dont have experience with those pads but try using SSR1 and the orange pad on a panel and see how if it cuts any of it.



If no luck try SSR2.5 using the next step below the orange pad (whichever color this may be).
 
It's hard to tell without pictures, but it sounds like you may have hazed the finish from the orange/SSR2.5. I don't have huge orange pad experience, and Audi clear is 'sposed to be very hard, but I guess it could happen.



I would suggest you try the SSR2.5 on the white pad. Make sure you work it fully to make sure it breaks down all the way. Try it on a small section and see if that improves things. If it only improves it a little, you may have to go back to the orange pad, again making sure that you fully break down the polish. Anyway, I'd try the white first, make sure you break down all the way, then a clean white pad with SSR1. My guess is that brings it back. Try a small section first to work out your process.
 
No offense dude but that is one Funky explanation :).



I have a Brialliant Black 05 A4 Ultra Sport and have tried out LC's VC Orange Pads. But not with a PC (I use a rotary) and I've never used the SSR line.



Anywho I know what my whip looks like in the sun if I don't follow that orange pad with a polishing/finishing pad and am inclined to agree with with the others that's it haze (although try as I might I can't see buffer haze described as "milky")



If that is the case then I would try what the others have reccommended. I doubt you've ruined your paint that quick with a PC.
 
CaliPhotog said:
Okay, but I know you know what you are doing... so what would you suggest to fix the milky looking junk. Anything?
Click to expand...



Well thanks for the vote of confidence :grinno:



I personally don't have a great deal of experience with the SSR line, none with a PC. I have used 2.5 with a rotary as Steve told me that is what it was designed for more so than an DA.



Is it possible to post up a picture or two of the troubled areas? I also agree with others in that you have not ruined your paint I believe it just isn't finished out properly.



Anthony
 
CaliPhotog said:
I think I am the only person on the planet that can't seem to get the PC to work properly. I thought I just needed practice, and I'm sure that's it but apparently I need allot more than I thought. I went to remove the dealer installed swirl marks from my Audi A3 and I am more screwed now than I was before. Also, this is my fourth try at it. Is it possible that I have eaten away the clear with the PC already. I think there is no way, but I can't explain what is happening any other way. My brilliant black color looks NOTHING like all the other cars at the dealership. It used to be the same, but now it has a milky look to it. Don't know any other way to describe it. If you look at the color in the sun, it looks like it has a muted light beige/milky coating ALLOVER the car, except for the little area above the windshield between the windshield and the open sky sunroof. Any ideas? Is it marring from the PC, or did it screw up my paint major? thanks
Click to expand...





I highly doubt you've eaten the clear away on Audi paint with a PC. Often times, a PC literally won't cut it, if the paint has enough defects. Heck,I spent 45 minutes alone on a single shallow scratch using a PC with minimal results at best.



This sounds like it needs some initial correction with a rotary, then follow with the PC, or, given Audi paint, a Cyclo. Just ask Accumulator about his deer incident.



If you want it very pristine, be prepared to inspect black paint under multiple lighting sources and multiple angles. In short, be prepared to spend A LOT of time.
 
Just out of curiosity, Bill, do you subscribe to the philosphy (espoused by Mike Phillips) that use of agressive pads/products with the PC can cause hazing that cannot be corrected by PC? When I melted my Meg's backing plate working my 15 yo pitted paint with a Meg's Burgundy pad and DACP at speed 6, I got read the riot act about hazing my paint, not being able to recover it without a rotary, etc. But I found that with a decent backing plate, the burgundy pad and high speeds and multiple DACP passes (using a PC) were the only way I could get a halfway corrected surface. In other words, I found the opposite of what was suggested would happen.
 
If I spent an additional 45 minutes on the scratch, perhaps I would've gotten it to the point where a finishing polish using a polishing pad might have gotten it 100%. That was a shallow scratch though. I'm finding real, random isolated deeper scratches really need the speed and heat of a rotary to properly correct them. It seems to me, that in these situations, if that is absent, the product on a PC may foul up the surrounding area, making the whole thing look bad. That can be due to the abrasive in the product not breaking down with the heat and speed they desire.



I like the PC best for "spot minor defect correction" where my Cyclo can't fit. I probably wouldn't use either by themselves as the first step to correct an actual scratch.



This milky appearance to the black paint described here sounds to me to be the result of abrasives in the product not breaking down due to the absence of the necessary heat, speed, and time.

I suppose that going back and attempting to correct all of that by PC would be like my little 45 minute scratch removal attempt amplified much greatly. I'm doubtful even after a ridiculous amount of time were spent, only with the PC, that the paint would reach it's maximum potential. It might look ok to good, but without the use of the rotary somewhere in the formula, I don't picture it looking great. That would be very frustrating after all of that effort. :( The rotary would've done the initial, even leveling and the PC could do the finishing touch, final burnishing. It's a matter of what degree of improvement you expect and how much time and effort can be alloted.
 
Same thing (milky appearance) happened to me the first time I tried polishing my car (a Seat Leon, which is much the same as the A3). After this, i've talked with the more experienced detailers here in portugal, the method of aplication was corrected (more speed and strenght) and the results finally were those i expected (depth, gloss and wet look)! Ah, I also used another polish (menzerna Paint Polish instead of the one i used the first time, einszett UPP), and another machine (Porter Cable 7424 instead of a cheap Fartools).
 
As far as I'm aware Sonus don't make an orange SFX pad. You can get an orange (light cut) DAS pad, or a yellow SFX pad (light cut). From my own personal experience the SFX pads leave quite a bit of hazing when used with SSR2.5 - I used the SFX yellow/SSR2.5 on a black M5 and had to finish out with SRP and a green DAS pad.



I'd try using a polish in between SSR2.5 and SSR1 on a polishing pad before finishing up with SSR1 on a finishing pad.



Ben.
 
Disclaimer- I have *not* used the SSR line of polishes or the orange pad in question.



But I have a fair amount of experience with Audis ;) so some random observations follow.



CaliPhotog- Don't beat yourself up too much about this. Doing an Audi with just a PC is tough. I've *never* been able to get an Audi 100% without using a rotary. Note how many people are talking about using a rotary (or at least a Cyclo) on Audis.



I find the Auid clear to be rather particular about what you use on it, especially when working by PC. I dunno how much longer I'd keep struggling with the SSR 2.5. Just because something works fine for somebody else that doesn't mean it'll work fine for you. The 3M PI-III stuff I use for most Audi correction is no longer available, so I'm not sure what to recommend. I'd probably consider Optimum, Menzerna, and the Hi-Temp line from TOL. On this paint, I'd rather use an aggressive product (but still something that breaks down and is suitable for PC use) than a really aggressive pad. You might want to switch to 4" pads for the worst of the correction. When the PC "bogs down" and "just jiggles" it won't do much to fix things.



On some rare occasions you simply can't fix Audis with a PC, you just have to have a rotary (a member from the old board had this happen to his black A4, its dealer-installed holograms were simply beyond the abilities of the PC). Yes, on this paint you can have damage that a PC simply will not remove, at least without spending more than five or six hours per panel and maybe not even then.



Good news- I'm absolutely certain that you haven't killed your clear unless there was something *really* drastic done to the car before you got it. You can polish an Audi with a PC/wool pad/fine cut RC for hours without hurting it (without even hurting the swirls much ;) ). You probably just have some hazing from your attempts, mixed with the marring you wanted to get rid of in the first place.



As Bill D said, this job is gonna take a *LOT* of time, so I'd work on one area until you get it right.



And make sure you *fully* break down your products.
 
WOW!!!! I logged back on and my thread exploded with GREAT advice!! I am going to pull my car out in the sun and take a few shots of it right now, then I will post and see if I can show the "milky" apperance I am talking about... be back in 30 min.



THANKS ALL!!!
 
Whew... that took ALLOT longer than I thought it would. I went out to take some photos and noticed that my car was really dusty so I decided to wash it first. As I was washing the clouds came in and blocked all my sun. (A fisrt this summer in California) lol OF COURSE, don't make this easy for me. So with no sun I had to make my own. :idea Here are some photos of the milky looking paint, the horrible swirls and other fun stuff.



First off, here is the car when it is lit properly and I want it to look decent. Then I will show what it looks like in the "sun".



nottoobad1.jpg


notbad.jpg
 
Okay, so now I needed sun, but it was hiding. No problem, I will create it...





therig.jpg


therigexplained.jpg




That is pretty much what I used to replicate the sun. A bare head on a strobe and then I flagged it off from the lens. This rig moved aroudn the car so I could get diffrent spots.
 
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