Bought an air compressor, any use for detailing?

[a.k.a. Patrick]

Also, as stated, you won't be running either one of these types of tools off a 115V compressor for longer than 5 min's or so before the tank starts to run down and the motor on the compressor kicks in.



At which time you'll have to stop working (because there won't be enough air to run the tool) and wait for the pressure to build up again, then you will drain again in a matter of minutes and so the cycle goes.

And thus the 7424, 7336 were born for us Autopians........."But they look so pretty!"....dangit. I was concerned about about air also, as I dont have a huge portable compressor. Ok Ok Ok, back to the drawing board........(Im tellin ya though, the PC these days isnt meeting all of my needs in a very timely manner)

 

[BobD]

Yeah, I used to use those DA style sanders when I worked building custom boat trailers. They die down pretty fast when pressure is applied to them. Even with a huge shop compresor.

 

[PRB]

And thus the 7424, 7336 were born for us Autopians...

When I first discovered paint (early 90s) that I could not finish swirl free by using the rotary or my old-style orbital, I rigged a polish pad on one of my pneumatic DA's and went at it with that combo.



The PC is a DA, as you said.



When using a pneumatic DA for paint polishing, some work faster than others. For this application, get the ones designed for quick removal of body filler rather than a finesee sander. They'll work better and faster when it comes to polishing paint. Either way, as others mentioned, they will make a portable compressor run all day long.



I actually discovered the PC as a way to do body sanding without having access to a large compressor. While it's not quite as strong as some pneumatics, being able to rely solely on electricity makes it very worthwhile when you're without enough CFM and PSI.



Have you considered a Cyclo? I have one that was a Christmas gift, but I've not put it to use yet. People say that they make all the difference in the world, both with speed and quality of use.

 

[a.k.a. Patrick]

I just didnt care for the Cyclo's structure. It just seemed rather large and cumbersome, and unable to accomodate small areas for finesse polishing/finishing. I may just have to bite the Rotary bullet......

 

[PRB]

I may just have to bite the Rotary bullet......

Had no idea you didn't use the rotary. Well, then, yes, get one! Use it!



If I can find a product and paint combo that allows me to not use a DA/PC, then I'm all for it. In some cases, though, I just can't get it the way I like with only rotary.



First experiment in a long time is the new Cyclo for me. Next will be a whole host of products I've not used since they were introduced or upgraded.

 

[the other pc]

....It appears it will need some BP adaption though. ......

That would suck if it did. The 5/16�-24 backing plate threading is standard for pneumatic DA sanders and polishers. That’s one of the great things about the 7424 family, they use the same standard so you can get backing plates from any industrial supplier. It would be really silly for PC to use a different interface on their pneumatic tools.



I’d definitely jump into pneumatic buffing if I had the air power to drive it. I have 220V in my garage but no room (or budget) for a big-@$$ compressor.





PC.

 

[MorBid]

The PC is a DA, as you said.

I'm thinking the PC is not a Dual Action Sander in that a dual action (DA) sander is called "dual action" because it can be run in two separate and distinct modes. One mode is orbital (when the air motor spindle is locked to the sanding pad). The other mode is RANDOM orbital (the air motor spindle has a bearing in it that the sanding pad is attached to. So the sanding pad not only turns orbital along with the spindle but it turns in a random oribtal because of the bearing).





The one in the pic Eliot Ness posted will have this locking mechanism. the one in Pat's picture won't and neither does the PC. Making the latter of the two IMHO either Orbital or Random Orbital.

I actually discovered the PC as a way to do body sanding without having access to a large compressor. While it's not quite as strong as some pneumatics, being able to rely solely on electricity makes it very worthwhile when you're without enough CFM and PSI.

I had wanted to try that as well, since I cannot get the same perfomance out of a PC as I can with my rotary I figured I'd try and get some use out of the thing.



Surprisingly enough it didn't do a bad job at leveling fillers and glazes and feathered really well. So I'm with you there.



MorBiD

 

[David Fermani]

If I can find a product and paint combo that allows me to not ues a DA/PC, then I'm all for it. In some cases, though, I just can't get it the way I like with only rotary.

That's different. I feel the complete opposite. A rotary wil do everything a PC/Cyclo/Orbital can accomplish and much, much more. I final finish and 1 step with a rotary all the time. Isn't the main use of a PC really to apply wax? I think alot of people get carried away with it's true performance in comparison to a rotary.

Sorry to stray off topic.

 

[MorBid]

The PC fills the niche for those who don't want to spend upwards of $180.00 on a Rotary and then have to learn (sometimes the hard way) how to use it properly.



Prior to it's introduction the hobbist or even serious Detailer did have the cyclo (put few hobbists would've heard about it and they aren't cheap either) of one of those orbital we see at big box and auto parts stores.



I have seen the work many here and on other forums have produced and it astounds me what can be done with the little PC and at minimal or no risk to the paint/panels. I wouldn't sell it short. It's does take longer to produce the results than if you had a rotary tool and the PC has it's limit's. Which is the wall Pat has hit.



The automotive industry (or at least the re-finishing part) is looking to move from the Rotary to something like the PC. Actually the tool will harness the speed and strength of the traditional rotary but move the pad in Random Orbits.



This in an effort to finish out the paint quicker without adding all the defects that come from a regular rotary. I also think it has to do with the way Automotive paints are being formulated these days.



MorBiD

 

[PRB]

MorBid, in regards to RO/DA, I wasn't trying to be as specific, given the limitations of the discussion here.



David, I don't think you are straying from topic. We're talking about the same thing, but from different angles. In my dark ages of trying to polish cars by hand, I realized I had to use the rotary to get results I wanted. For years, I used only the rotary until I applied final wax or sealant.



Then, I discovered that some finishes won't go mark-free without use of the PC or similar machine. While this is not the case on every finish, it does happen to me more than a few times. I've not used anything new in the last 7 years or so and some tell me product or pad limitations are keeping me from eliminating the PC and Cyclo completely and still finishing without any rotary marks on the paint.

 

[the other pc]

I'm thinking the PC is not a Dual Action Sander in that a dual action (DA) sander is called "dual action" because it can be run in two separate and distinct modes. One mode is orbital (when the air motor spindle is locked to the sanding pad). The other mode is RANDOM orbital (the air motor spindle has a bearing in it that the sanding pad is attached to. So the sanding pad not only turns orbital along with the spindle but it turns in a random oribtal because of the bearing)....

The PC is called Dual Action because the pad both orbits and rotates freely as opposed to a "jitterbug" sander whose pad only orbits.



Yes, there is at least one manufacturer (I don’t recall who) that says their machine is Dual Action because it has two separate operating modes.



National Detroit claims to have originated the term "Dual Action" with their model DA sander/polisher, which operates like the PC.

PC.

 

[David Fermani]

The automotive industry (or at least the re-finishing part) is looking to move from the Rotary to something like the PC. Actually the tool will harness the speed and strength of the traditional rotary but move the pad in Random Orbits.



This in an effort to finish out the paint quicker without adding all the defects that come from a regular rotary. I also think it has to do with the way Automotive paints are being formulated these days.

Are you sure about this? The big guys (3M / Megs) that supply the majority of the sandpaper, compounds and polishes to the paint refinishing end user recommend using only a rotary with their systems. It's a must. I just witnessed a 3M training class at a local body shop and they demonstrated with a rotary.

They have made 1 move forward/better/easier by introducing their Trizat papers which can be used with a DA instead of by hand. It still requires a rotary though. I visit dozens of different body shops each month and I never see any of them using anything other than a rotary. As long as there are defects (orange peel,dust/runs) in repaints, there will be rotarys being used. It's more than mainsteam and commonplace - it's mandatory.

 

[MorBid]

the other pc:



A jitterbug sander is not even close to a Dual Action, I have one of those relics. If you don't happen to have one go to a shop where you can look at it. It's a orbital sander w/a square pad.



Yes National Detriot does claim to have coined the term DA sander. Their "Mudhog" is still the definitive DA Sander and nothing works like it. Do yourself a favor and Google on Dual Action Sanders. When you find one that's doesn't look like the one's in the picture you or Elliot posted grab the link. The PC isn't sold as a DA and nothing in the manual says it is.



Dave:



3m may make the abrasives but not the paint which is what I'm talking about. Besides I didn't say the rotary tool would go away, just instead of it spinning at a high rpms in a constant circle make it a radom orbit.



Think about it. Whether it's scratches or swirls you need to move the pad on a rotary from left to right (east to west), then up and down (north to south) and diagonally (southwest to northeast) to effective hit each area of the defect to level it consistantly. Well that's the beauty of a random orbit machine, it wobbles instead of just spinning so it's sorta already doing that for you.



This in addition to not leaving the tell tale machine marks a rotary can and sometimes does.

 

[Derf]

Blow dust out of vents, dash, door pockets, stereo faceplates, defrosters, blow leaves out of door hinges, especially useful on lower front air intakes on Porsches!

You got that right! I just used my air compressor to get a ton of leaves and cigarette butts out of my lower air intakes.

 

[a.k.a. Patrick]

Derf, Im familiar with those intakes!! Even with an AC, sometimes its impossible to get 100%....

 

[the other pc]

…A jitterbug sander is not even close to a Dual Action, I have one of those relics. If you don't happen to have one go to a shop where you can look at it. It's a orbital sander w/a square pad….

That was my point. It orbits but it doesn’t rotate. A DA also rotates. Hense the terminology dual action.

…Yes National Detriot does claim to have coined the term DA sander….. Do yourself a favor and Google on Dual Action Sanders. When you find one that's doesn't look like the one's in the picture you or Elliot posted grab the link. …

Um, that was my point, they all do look like the classic National Detroit DA. (And when you Google it that’s what comes up.)

…The PC isn't sold as a DA …

It is if your buy it as a G100 through Meguiar’s. They call it that because it has the same motion as the pneumatic units.





PC.