Black Paint with Grayish Hue...

basswood

Atlanta
Enthusiast here. Car has been clayed, polished and waxed. I have the PC XP and a myriad of pads plus a number of product. The paint is swirl free but has a bit of self induced marring that I can live with. The harshest product I've used is M205.

Of course the paint looks terrific in the shade. Looked at it in the sun today and the black paint takes on a grayish tint. I'm obviously not doing something right.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Tom
 
I wouldn't be so fast as to say it's not supposed to look like that....

But what year/model is the car and what's on it right now?
 
"Those willing to trade freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."

Amen.

Tom
LTC
USA (Ret)
 
I like black Ice, it's one of the few "latest and greatest" purchases I haven't regretted.

So being true to my wax waster roots, my advice would be throw on a 2nd coat and see what happens then
 
or hit it with black hole and then black ice

Ok, I give up. What's black hole? Why do I feel like I'm being set up on this one?

Three coats of BFBI with plenty of rest time between coats. Probably overkill but it looks and sheets and beads beautifully. Still, grayish in the sunlight.

Would taking it down with M105 or perhaps BF SRC and then polishing and LSP be a possibility? Or, am I being waaaayyy too anal? Nah, not possible.

Let's start with perfect and we'll improve from there.

Best,
Tom
 
Ok, I give up. What's black hole? Why do I feel like I'm being set up on this one?

Three coats of BFBI with plenty of rest time between coats. Probably overkill but it looks and sheets and beads beautifully. Still, grayish in the sunlight.

Would taking it down with M105 or perhaps BF SRC and then polishing and LSP be a possibility? Or, am I being waaaayyy too anal? Nah, not possible.

Let's start with perfect and we'll improve from there.

Best,
Tom

Nope, no set up

black hole is a glaze. it also adds some "extra pop" to the paint as far as i'm concerned.

3 coats of bfbi is good.

mebbe reflection is sooooo good, you're actually seeing reflection
 
I noticed this same thing on my 2012 black Camaro Looks great in the garage but when I backed it out and the sun shining on the it looks like it has a fog on it. In the spring I am going to try a different procedure on finishing with the pads I am using. I finished polishing with the orange pad and used BFGEP with white but think I should have actually did the final polishing with the white and used something even less course for the BFGEP. I just put Finish Kare FK1000P on it for winter protection and it looked like it still had the haze or fog but in the rain it doesn't have that look.

Only suggestion I have is use a finer polish or less aggressive pad for final polish as that is what I am going to try myself.

Dean. :)
 
In my experience with waxes, some will leave a less than clear finish when applied and wiped off.
Another reason why I never use them.

If you were able to achieve as close to Perfect Clarity on your paintwork at the correction stage, then you should be able to see that same Perfect Clarity after you apply your LSP.

And if you are able to find the right LSP, you should be able to even improve the gloss of the Perfect Clarity you achieved at the correction stage..

But as we have always said here, the Prep Stage which includes the Correction Stage has to be as good as possible, or as good as the Client is paying for, in order to achieve and keep that level of Clarity in the paintwork and gloss..

Good luck with your project !
Dan F
 
My black sand pearl tacoma looks that way in the sun as well takes on two or three colors depending on how and where ya look at it, lol, post some pics of yours maybe ?
 
In my experience with waxes, some will leave a less than clear finish when applied and wiped off.
Another reason why I never use them.

If you were able to achieve as close to Perfect Clarity on your paintwork at the correction stage, then you should be able to see that same Perfect Clarity after you apply your LSP.

And if you are able to find the right LSP, you should be able to even improve the gloss of the Perfect Clarity you achieved at the correction stage..

But as we have always said here, the Prep Stage which includes the Correction Stage has to be as good as possible, or as good as the Client is paying for, in order to achieve and keep that level of Clarity in the paintwork and gloss..



Good luck with your project !
Dan F

That's what I'm thinking...that I have not done a proper prep to achieve "perfect clarity" prior to applying the LSP. As a noob, I have some hesitation to attacking the paint with something akin to M105 or BF SRC both of which are in my inventory. Perhaps that should be my next step.

I am curious about your comment that you never use waxes. What is your preference for an LSP?

I appreciate your input.

Best regards,
Tom
.
 
Hi Tom -

With a Random Orbital machine, it will be pretty darn hard to hurt most healthy paint..
There is just not enough pad rotation compared to a Rotary like I use for everything.

Depending on the hardness of your particular paint, you can still achieve great clarity depending on the machine, pad and what you use for the correction.

You will have to put pressure on the machine to get better correction and balance that with not losing your pad rotation.

Some machines have more pad rotation than others, but none will have the direct rotation that a Rotary has.

The newest Random Orbitals - Rupes - seem to have the best design and pad rotation - with a washer modification - than any others except perhaps the Flex 3401VRG.

Some compounds today are using both diminishing and non-diminishing abrasives and chemicals, to clean the paint and smooth off the rough edges of the clear coat to help bring clarity back much easier than compounds of even 5 years ago. This is all good especially for users of Random Orbitals.

A really good brand of compounds that are easy to use, correct very well, and are not messy or dusty, or leave a lot of stuff to remove is the Optimum Technologies line. They are Optimum Hyper Compound and Hyper Finishing Polish, a compound and a finishing compound. Very easy to use, they both will work until you decide to stop, and work fast and clean with a lot less mess than the old favorite Meguiars 105 and then later 101.

My all time favorite of the past few months has been Sonax Profiline Perfect Finish 4/6..
It only has a cut of 4 out of 6 but it also has a gloss of 6 out of 6, so I can take about any paintwork and make it really clear and glossy pretty quickly with my Rotary..

I quit using waxes on anything back in the early 70's when I as you noticed how they seemed to cloud up a really clean corrected finish. Sure they protected for as little as waxes really do, but I hated using something that was taking away that hard worked for clarity and gloss for temporary protection.

A really good LSP that I have been using lets see - believe I just finished vehicle number-10, that leaves incredible gloss and protection has been the new Sonax Polymer Net Shield product. It does not disrupt the clarity since it is clear but sprays out of the can white until it settles down on your sponge applicator.
It is thicker I think and this makes it a little slower to apply since it wants to slow down your application, but the time spent is well worth it in my experience..

Water beading is excellent and on my test vehicle a 1998 BMW 528 in Jet Black that I corrected and it sits outside 24x7 in all the bad weather we have up here, It looks absolutely beautiful after 2.5 months, gets dusty, gets rained on, and very little of that dust/dirt sticks to it and it pretty much washes off in the rain. No water spots either after, because it does not get dried. It is an on-going test vehicle..

Have you thought about or used Microfiber pads? The random orbital guys seem to love them because they correct faster apparently than foam.

Good luck with this - it is absolutely possible to achieve incredible clarity and gloss out of your paintwork..

We are all happy to help you get your beautiful Jaguar to this point !
Dan F
 
Do you have any idea of how your black XK Jag was treated before you acquired it? My custom-order-from-Brit-Land 2007 Salsa Red XK (flat, not metallic) was pampered by only applying older BlackFire products, so I may not likely be much help here. Car had a subtle-but poor Orange Peel finish, which I did not try to correct via machine polishers.

After "stripping" (cleaning) the finish, I applied BlackF Gloss Enhancing Polish, followed by a couple coats of Black Diamond Wet Diamond. And re-applied polish,WD as needed, and used BF detail spray for most bug removals, etc. These were all older products, which I continued to apply to Car until I sold it last year. The car was gorgeous. Got many, many compliments on Ride.

I have not used BF BL Ice, as I gave up on using any wax on my cars. They simply don't seem to last in the hot/arid desert. So, I don't have a lick of experience using BF Black Ice. "Location, location", is entirely different from ATL, GA.

I would strip all existing finishes off your XK, and start anew. Dawn, diluted alcohol, or Migliore Citro Shampoo, may take you back down to "Start Over". Dawn doesn't work for me in the desert, even with softened water. Everything dries waaaay to fasst, leaving spots on the finish. Soft-water spots are easy to remove with distilled water, but they ARE STILL SPOTS.

I no longer own the cool Jag, and use Migliore Cima Sealant on my present ride, as waxes have not worked for me. My location is a LOT different than yours. Please consider that we live in vastly different climes.

Best, to take your XK down to a Clean Slate, and start over? I really don't know though, as I am not a professional detailer. Without knowing what has been done to the paint finish before you bought the car, leaves a whole lot of unanswered questions.
 
Hi Tom -

With a Random Orbital machine, it will be pretty darn hard to hurt most healthy paint..
There is just not enough pad rotation compared to a Rotary like I use for everything.

Depending on the hardness of your particular paint, you can still achieve great clarity depending on the machine, pad and what you use for the correction.

You will have to put pressure on the machine to get better correction and balance that with not losing your pad rotation.

Some machines have more pad rotation than others, but none will have the direct rotation that a Rotary has.

The newest Random Orbitals - Rupes - seem to have the best design and pad rotation - with a washer modification - than any others except perhaps the Flex 3401VRG.

Some compounds today are using both diminishing and non-diminishing abrasives and chemicals, to clean the paint and smooth off the rough edges of the clear coat to help bring clarity back much easier than compounds of even 5 years ago. This is all good especially for users of Random Orbitals.

A really good brand of compounds that are easy to use, correct very well, and are not messy or dusty, or leave a lot of stuff to remove is the Optimum Technologies line. They are Optimum Hyper Compound and Hyper Finishing Polish, a compound and a finishing compound. Very easy to use, they both will work until you decide to stop, and work fast and clean with a lot less mess than the old favorite Meguiars 105 and then later 101.

My all time favorite of the past few months has been Sonax Profiline Perfect Finish 4/6..
It only has a cut of 4 out of 6 but it also has a gloss of 6 out of 6, so I can take about any paintwork and make it really clear and glossy pretty quickly with my Rotary..

I quit using waxes on anything back in the early 70's when I as you noticed how they seemed to cloud up a really clean corrected finish. Sure they protected for as little as waxes really do, but I hated using something that was taking away that hard worked for clarity and gloss for temporary protection.

A really good LSP that I have been using lets see - believe I just finished vehicle number-10, that leaves incredible gloss and protection has been the new Sonax Polymer Net Shield product. It does not disrupt the clarity since it is clear but sprays out of the can white until it settles down on your sponge applicator.
It is thicker I think and this makes it a little slower to apply since it wants to slow down your application, but the time spent is well worth it in my experience..

Water beading is excellent and on my test vehicle a 1998 BMW 528 in Jet Black that I corrected and it sits outside 24x7 in all the bad weather we have up here, It looks absolutely beautiful after 2.5 months, gets dusty, gets rained on, and very little of that dust/dirt sticks to it and it pretty much washes off in the rain. No water spots either after, because it does not get dried. It is an on-going test vehicle..

Have you thought about or used Microfiber pads? The random orbital guys seem to love them because they correct faster apparently than foam.

Good luck with this - it is absolutely possible to achieve incredible clarity and gloss out of your paintwork..

We are all happy to help you get your beautiful Jaguar to this point !
Dan F

A ton of great info here Stokdgs. I am also a huge fan of Sonax Profiline Perfect Finish! Little to no dusting and the finish is freaking awesome! I'm going to have to try Polymer Net Sheild.
 
Hi Tom -

With a Random Orbital machine, it will be pretty darn hard to hurt most healthy paint..
There is just not enough pad rotation compared to a Rotary like I use for everything.

Depending on the hardness of your particular paint, you can still achieve great clarity depending on the machine, pad and what you use for the correction.

You will have to put pressure on the machine to get better correction and balance that with not losing your pad rotation.

Some machines have more pad rotation than others, but none will have the direct rotation that a Rotary has.

The newest Random Orbitals - Rupes - seem to have the best design and pad rotation - with a washer modification - than any others except perhaps the Flex 3401VRG.

Some compounds today are using both diminishing and non-diminishing abrasives and chemicals, to clean the paint and smooth off the rough edges of the clear coat to help bring clarity back much easier than compounds of even 5 years ago. This is all good especially for users of Random Orbitals.

A really good brand of compounds that are easy to use, correct very well, and are not messy or dusty, or leave a lot of stuff to remove is the Optimum Technologies line. They are Optimum Hyper Compound and Hyper Finishing Polish, a compound and a finishing compound. Very easy to use, they both will work until you decide to stop, and work fast and clean with a lot less mess than the old favorite Meguiars 105 and then later 101.

My all time favorite of the past few months has been Sonax Profiline Perfect Finish 4/6..
It only has a cut of 4 out of 6 but it also has a gloss of 6 out of 6, so I can take about any paintwork and make it really clear and glossy pretty quickly with my Rotary..

I quit using waxes on anything back in the early 70's when I as you noticed how they seemed to cloud up a really clean corrected finish. Sure they protected for as little as waxes really do, but I hated using something that was taking away that hard worked for clarity and gloss for temporary protection.

A really good LSP that I have been using lets see - believe I just finished vehicle number-10, that leaves incredible gloss and protection has been the new Sonax Polymer Net Shield product. It does not disrupt the clarity since it is clear but sprays out of the can white until it settles down on your sponge applicator.
It is thicker I think and this makes it a little slower to apply since it wants to slow down your application, but the time spent is well worth it in my experience..

Water beading is excellent and on my test vehicle a 1998 BMW 528 in Jet Black that I corrected and it sits outside 24x7 in all the bad weather we have up here, It looks absolutely beautiful after 2.5 months, gets dusty, gets rained on, and very little of that dust/dirt sticks to it and it pretty much washes off in the rain. No water spots either after, because it does not get dried. It is an on-going test vehicle..

Have you thought about or used Microfiber pads? The random orbital guys seem to love them because they correct faster apparently than foam.

Good luck with this - it is absolutely possible to achieve incredible clarity and gloss out of your paintwork..

We are all happy to help you get your beautiful Jaguar to this point !
Dan F

Stokdgs,

I am absolutely floored by the time and effort you have taken and the expertise you have shared with your response.

From what I've learned here in the past few months product is important but tools and technique are paramount. I do believe I am lacking in the latter two. I can buy the tools but the technique will take some years.

I do like the MF pads idea...that was my next step with the PC XP but now I'm going with the Rupes 15 and MF pads. Since a rotary is your machine of choice, you've obviously been doing this for a month or two.:) I don't have that kind of confidence.

I appreciate your guidance on the product. Fortunately I have the resources to buy and use your recommendations, which I will.

While I have you on the phone, what are your thought on a good steam extractor? Lol!

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge.

Kindest regards,
Tom
 
Hello Tom -

We are all glad to help !

I talked to the man who made the washer modification to the Rupes polishers and was able to increase the pad rotation as a result. His name is Kevin Brown.

He thinks the bigger Rupes machine is the best one to get because it has a longer throw than the smaller one. The bigger one can be fitted with the smaller 5" backing plate as well.

As you will find however, sometimes a smaller machine with a smaller footprint is easier to work some areas of a vehicle.

In my experience, a smaller machine like the Porter Cable XP is ideal for polishing the glass, sunroof, some A - B pillars, and if it will do the job, clear plastic headlights and maybe even tail lights. Of course the smaller, curvier, harder to get a big machine into places are where the smaller machine will do better..

What I have to do in the Rotary Power world is put an extension on the shaft to space the backing plate and pad farther away from the machine, so I can get just the working part of this combo into tighter places, etc..

Spacing the pad out farther from the machine does make it act a little differently on a Rotary but it is not hard to adapt..

I have been reading about microfiber pads for a couple of years at least, and while they sound nice, they do have a few requirements of their own that need to be brought up..

Since they are microfiber, they will tend to matt down when using them and this will not let them work to their full potential, so many Detailers use an air hose with a small thin air fitting on the end to blow the pads clean and fluff up the microfibers, as needed.

Others have said that they will just brush the pads with a pad cleaning brush, etc., and this works too. You will have to find out what works for your needs if/when you go there.

I also hear microfiber guys saying that they will use foam to do the final polishing after using microfiber pads for the correction stage.

Everyone will have developed their own technique/s based on their needs, so you will need to think about this too..

As you experiment, you will gain more confidence and develop your own "technique" for what works best for you. Certainly, there are some "baselines" that are pretty standard to remember, but once you get into it, you will find your comfort level and work from there.

Last time I Detailed a "Jag-u-are" as pronounced by our British friends, the paint was pretty hard but very nice and it finished beautifully.. You will be able to achieve what ever level you desire to go for..

There may even be some great Detailers to assist you, around your part of the world too ! Did you tell us where you lived ??

Microfiber pad users - please add your thoughts and experiences -

Regarding a good Steamer Extractor -

I looked at these years ago and decided that if I separated the 2 it would be better for my needs, and it has worked out fine..

I use the VX5000 Italian made stainless steel boiler Steamer and it has worked great. It is small, on wheels, and can sit in a rolling Detailing Cart just fine if you will space it up higher so that the hose connection is flush with the top of the cart edge.
I use mine every day and it has never failed to work and work very well.
Do not know if Autopia sells this machine, but I just saw it listed at Detailed Image out of NY..

There are a lot of other options, including dual vac and steam but I have never been able to see how you can combine those 2 things and get really great performance for Auto Detailing..

Purchased a Mytee HP60 Spyder Extractor years ago as well and it is absolute killer on any kind of carpet, carpeted mats, and cloth upholstery.. Works great, has an internal water heater, and gets used about every day too..

Found out that sometimes the combo of steam and extraction is the the way to go on really dirty carpets and cloth seats and use that system as well when called for.

What I have learned is that there is so much dirt embedded deep as far as it can go, in carpets that hardly every gets removed unless you use something with a big water lift number and suction power.. And when it is all removed or as much as humanly possible, the carpets look so much better and the vehicle will just smell "cleaner" because a lot of dirt is now gone from the Interior..

Lots of Detailers get by with a good wet or dry shop vac, etc., and these will probably do good as well.

Some use a very small carpet extractor cleaner that is plastic and hand held and seems to work well for their needs..

I have a business and my Clients expect their nice German cars, Italian cars, etc., to be absolutely perfect, so I can justify and have long, long, ago paid for the additional expense of a dedicated steamer and extractor..

I have yet to find any carpets, carpeted mats, etc., that were first vacuumed very well and for a long time with a good MetroVac, that did not still have much embedded dirt that showed up in the Recovery Tank of my Extractor as black to dark brown water coming out when I drained the tank.. They are just doing their job as carpeting to trap all the dirt we track in the car with our shoes ! :)

Of course, there are lots of options on any of these subjects discussed here, and I hope as you read the posts of so many awesome Detailers on this Forum alone, you will get lots of ideas to think about !

Good Luck !
Dan F
 
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