Best results over Z5

[Murrayhe]

Just polished my black car and put a couple of coats of Zaino Z5 on it. If I want it to shine even more (more depth, wet, or whatever), is it recommended that I put carnuba wax on top of it? I'm new to this stuff so any pointers would be greatly appreciated.

 

[imported_BretFraz]

I don't know what you mean by "shine more". You mean more reflectivity, like a more mirrory shine? Try Z2. You want more depth like a 3D look? Zaino is the wrong product for that, carnaubas work best to get the deep look.



Zaino and top quality carnaubas are on the opposite sides of the detailing spectrum. You need to decide which look you want and then use the products that get you that look.

 

[imported_memnuts]

Just polished my black car and put a couple of coats of Zaino Z5 on it. If I want it to shine even more (more depth, wet, or whatever), is it recommended that I put carnuba wax on top of it? I'm new to this stuff so any pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Oggle,

How many black cars do you have? How much Zaino do you own? Have you polished the car that quickly after posting the thread (Zaino and Glaze) about Z1 and Z2 @ 10am this morning? Are these true questions or are you just playing games? :nixweiss



Zaino and Glaze

http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17554

 

[1andrews]

blkZ28Conv, I seriously doubt he meant that LITERALLY.



Just detailed as in, just yesterday.



I don't think people come to autopia with the sole purpose of lying about having detailed their cars! But I can see how a question like this gets old fast. I've noticed this same question asked (including by myself) about 4 or 5 times in the last few days alone, if not more..



such is the internet.



Oggle, the answer is there is no answer, try for yourself and see how you like it. Use p21s (or souveran or blackfire, or #26...etc). Trial and error being the soul of autopia!

 

[imported_memnuts]

You are probably right emobob, but it was a little irritating to take time to write a response only to see another question using different Zaino products and car already polished. Hypothetical is great but maybe the question should be posed as such ?:wavey



Oggle,

If my point of view is off base accept my apology but if I am correct :nono

 

[Murrayhe]

Oggle,

How many black cars do you have? How much Zaino do you own? Have you polished the car that quickly after posting the thread (Zaino and Glaze) about Z1 and Z2 @ 10am this morning? Are these true questions or are you just playing games? :nixweiss



Zaino and Glaze

http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17554

LOL no I'm not playing games. Just trying to learn as I go.



Right now my car sits in the garage, all polished. One of the door panels has Z1 plus 2 coats of Z5 on it, but that's it. Everything else is bare nakes. Just posting to find out what you folks recommend before I put on the wax.:bow

 

[Murrayhe]

You are probably right emobob, but it was a little irritating to take time to write a response only to see another question using different Zaino products and car already polished. Hypothetical is great but maybe the question should be posed as such ?:wavey



Oggle,

If my point of view is off base accept my apology but if I am correct :nono

blkZ28Conv, your response in the other thread "Zaino and glaze" was very informative. I guesss what I'm trying to do here is to make sure I get things right. I really don't want to put on the wax and have to take it all off later on.



Right now, I'm just confused as to the difference of wax, glaze, and carnuba. To you guys it's probably 1st grade stuff, but for me, I'm still spinning in circles sometimes reading all those acronyms. :nixweiss

 

[thealimo]

oggle....



I understand what you are trying to research. It is very confusing and frustrating when you start to detail any car..let alone a new black E500



Try this....for a start and you will be happy with the results and can always change to something different later.



1. Clay the car (I know you have read the threads on this and may have already done it)



2. Apply a coat or 2 of Z5 (Z6 between)



3. Apply 2 or 3 coats of Z2 (better optical effects than Z5) Z6 between



4. Finish with Z6.



5. If you got the ZFX from Zaino it will speed the drying time up a whole bunch and you will not have to wait between coats.



This takes time but not a lot of real work. I just did it on an obsidian black E500 and it looks great. I am at the opposite end of the world from the guys who think detailing is fun, but this is something you can do easily. You really can't screw it up. Just follow the instructions.



pm me at MBworld if I can help. Sounds like you are getting some harsh responses here on autopia.



Ed

 

[paco]

blkZ28Conv, your response in the other thread "Zaino and glaze" was very informative. I guesss what I'm trying to do here is to make sure I get things right. I really don't want to put on the wax and have to take it all off later on.



Right now, I'm just confused as to the difference of wax, glaze, and carnuba. To you guys it's probably 1st grade stuff, but for me, I'm still spinning in circles sometimes reading all those acronyms. :nixweiss

Don't sweat it. It'll take some time Just search through the forums and ask questions if nothing comes up. Some of us who have been here longer can point you in the right direction and possibly help you search the forums.



Wax - Carnuba based but also contains other solvents, minerals etc to assist in it's application. The % of carnuba and type are what make waxes different. Depending on what you are hoping to achieve, different brands may be suited to you. i.e. Durability - Biltz, ease of application and shine S100, all around good performer Meguiars No. 26 HiTech Wax.



Glaze - Oily enriched product to bring out a high gloss finish prior to the addition of wax. Very very minimal protection. If a wax layer is not applied, the product could potentially be removed within a day or two.



Carnuba - see above



Shine - Depends on your definition. Each of the premium waxes and sealants provide slightly different looks and properties. Which is right for you depends on what you are looking for and experience.



Zaino - great reflectivity. Very long lasting. Extremely slick feel. Doesn't "tint" the colour of the paint.

Klasse - very similar to Zaino. On darker colours, it is noted it could potentially bring a more "wet" look rather than the "reflective" optically correct Zaino appearance. Darn hard to find out anything about the company and there is no company support for the product. Strange, very strange but let's not get into that again. Hard as helll to find in Canada.

BlackFire - carnuba look, mutes the colour a bit, not as slick as the 2 above but the latest generation formula may have changed that and some indicate the slickness lasts.

Platinum - Similar to BlackFire. Probably in between Zaino and BlackFire in appearance.

Carnuba - very "wet" looking, easy application (except Blitz's staining plastic trim issue), shorter protection than a polymer sealant, dark colours tend to be changed a bit (muted, darker, less sparkle especially in metallic paints).



A stand alone vehicle, telling the difference would be extremely difficult. Cars with the same colour with a high degree of care to the finish, you could probably differentiate between Zaino and the other 3.



The application of Zaino/Klasse is more complicated than with BlackFire and Platinum but still easy to understand after you know how.

 

[paco]

oggle....



I understand what you are trying to research. It is very confusing and frustrating when you start to detail any car..let alone a new black E500



Try this....for a start and you will be happy with the results and can always change to something different later.



1. Clay the car (I know you have read the threads on this and may have already done it)



2. Apply a coat or 2 of Z5 (Z6 between)



3. Apply 2 or 3 coats of Z2 (better optical effects than Z5) Z6 between



4. Finish with Z6.



5. If you got the ZFX from Zaino it will speed the drying time up a whole bunch and you will not have to wait between coats.



This takes time but not a lot of real work. I just did it on an obsidian black E500 and it looks great. I am at the opposite end of the world from the guys who think detailing is fun, but this is something you can do easily. You really can't screw it up. Just follow the instructions.



pm me at MBworld if I can help. Sounds like you are getting some harsh responses here on autopia.



Ed

ZFX / Z1



Z1 is the polish lok.

ZFX is accelerator for curing of Z2/Z5.



Prior to the introduction of ZFX, you needed to apply Z1 (and not remove it) to the paint prior to adding Z2 or Z5 to ensure proper bonding of the sealant to the clear as Z2/Z5 due to the super slick nature of Z2/Z5. The Z1 application was required at ~ every 10th coat of Z2/Z5.



With ZFX - upto 3 coats per day

Without ZFX - 1 coat per day.



Now with ZFX, the sealants cure much quicker such that the you no longer need to apply Z1 if you purchase ZFX. After that, the same goes that every 10th coat requires you to either Z1 or ZFX again.



So, lets say to go and buy Z2 and ZFX and are the paint prep. is as you like it.



Wash, Z6, Z2/ZFX (upto 3 coats in one day with Z6 coats in between).



Then the following week you only want to apply 1 coat.



Wash, Z6, Z2 (only 1 coat per day if you don't mix it up with ZFX).



You can keep applying single coats daily/weekly etc, upto ~10 before needing to apply Z1 or a coat with ZFX.



Z5/Z2



Z5 is said to have swirl hiding properties. I haven't found this to be the case at all. Don't be fooled, it may at best hide some very very faint micro marring that is only seen at certain angles but will not hide a "swirl". It is less optically perfect, and as such, will reflect light slightly different than Z2. Some also feel that it looks better on darker colour vehicles than Z2.



Z2 is said to be 99.9% optically perfect. Perfect reflectivity.



Unless you do a "half hood" experiment, telling the difference between the two will be extremely difficult. If your interested in doing this, try doing it the opposite of how most people do it. Cut the hood in half across it (horizontally) and not vertically. That way, light reflection won't be as much of observer bias.



Personally, I'd stick with Z5 due to the ever so slight swirl hiding property.



Note: There is absolutely no issue switching between the two between coats so that is always an option.



When applying, use a damp (not wet) applicator to ease in spreading the Z2/Z5. Search the archives and you'll find tonnes of posts describing how to go about applying Zaino.



Layering, the reason people layer sealants is that it seems to increase the shine, reflection etc as more layers are applied. However, with Klasse and potentially all of them, 3 seems to the best bang for you buck (in a very short period of time). After that, the noticable increases are minimal at best and you're working hard for very little (diminshing returns on your time and investment). If you're applying your coats weekly or biweeky, than that magic 3 number goes away due to the fact that the upper most layer is slowly getting abraided by the elements and adding a layer can yield good results.



With Zaino, it has been tested and noted that washing with Z7 maintains the paint slickness and look so you may want to consider that if slickness is an important parameter for ya.



Oggle, don't worry about a negative tone or 2, probably just end of year crankiness.

 

[Mindflux]

Paco,



I see no point in Z6ing the car on that initial wash. You should Z6 after the zaino coat, or right before you apply another coat yes.

 

[iceman]

Paco,



I see no point in Z6ing the car on that initial wash. You should Z6 after the zaino coat, or right before you apply another coat yes.

I would agree with this. Otherwise, an excellent Zaino write-up, paco.

 

[paco]

Paco,



I see no point in Z6ing the car on that initial wash. You should Z6 after the zaino coat, or right before you apply another coat yes.

The only reason I do that, is to ensure that I have a dust free, absolutely clean surface to apply the Z2/Z5 to. I Z6 the panel right before I apply the Z2.



Kind of like tack clothing before painting



Since the paint is already clean, very very little Z6 is required. If my MF is wet enough with Z6, I sometime don't even spritz and pass it with the wet and follow-up with a dry MF.



Is it necessary, na. Is it a good preventative step, I think so.



Paco

 

[Mindflux]

Paco,



Good idea, although I think it'd be wise to use another "cheaper" QD without carnuaba in it, say.. Meguiars Final Inspection.



It's cheaper anyway, if you're going to use it in that manner.



I use Z6 at the time I'm buffing off Zaino. Just spray a bit on a panel and buff it all off..



Works really good if I've managed to get a little thick in some areas.

 

[shaf]

Great post Paco. :xyxthumbs



For Oggle or anyone else reading this thread and noting the differences between the various sealant systems, when you're considering each of these you may want to also take note of how each "system" works, as it may (or may not) be important to you.



For example, Zaino usually requires that the paint be polished separately prior to applying. On the other hand, Klasse has AIO, which is like a cleaner wax that polishes and protects, and Blackfire/Platinum include separate products that polish, but do not protect.

 

[thealimo]

Paco...



Great post that puts it all together and easy to understand. I had forgot to mention Z1 to oggle as I never use it..just ZFX.



One of the best and simple posts I have seen on any of the forums.



Mindflux...



I haven't use Z6 to buff off the Z2. Do you feel you still get the benefits of the Z6 this way? Is it getting on the top of the finished Z2?

 

[VetteToVair]

Concerning using Z6 in between coats of Zaino, i dont think it is necessary, but Sal recommends it. does anybody know of a good reason to do it? i'm not sure i see the point. it can't be to clean off the surface because the surface is already extremely clean. maybe what i'm getting at is that it's just a push to use up more product. it would be great if somebody could shed some light on this for me before Sal's autopian bodyguards beat the crap out of me

Don't get me wrong - i have used zaino in the past and think it is great, but some things i can't help but question.