Best Polymers and Acrylics

There is no product that is the best. We all have our favorites for different reasons and all of our cars look great. I think most of this stuff is totally subjective to the eye of the owner and in reality there is not a huge discernable difference between any of the products mentioned.
 
Fr0zen said:
which Polymers and Acrylics Last the Longest and Produce the Best Shine
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Fr0zen said:
I went through alot of the threads but none of them specifically mention Beading of meguiars polymer sealent mostly just application methods and stuff of that sort.
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Dude, your question didn't specifically mention beading of Meguiar's Polymer Sealant either... :idea



StickKing1 said:
__________________

Brian

Always working to have the best looking car on the block....of course, I'm the only one with an Aurora....so I guess I've got a head start.
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Ha ha, that's awesome!! :bigups :spot :dance
 
Poorboy said:
...we recommend using Professional Polish or SSR1 ...but as many can see from what I understand there is over 200+ posts on EX it can be used after most any paint cleaner, as was done with the UPP test area, or any polish or glaze...
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Gosh I really hate getting thrown in to these sort of discussions because I hate having to continually defend myself for using and testing products in a manner that most of the general public uses the products. As soon as I say or show something that is bound to upset someone (usually a vendor, mfg or enthusiast), I get thrown to the dogs...



In our "offical" wax test, we got thrown under the bus because we did "too much prep work" according to some folks. So, for this miniature, quickie test, I decided to do a simple wash, evaluate the surface, and apply products from there.



I can guarantee that this car's surface did NOT have any other oils, waxes, glazes, or other substances that would have interferred with a product's ability to bond properly. If you'll notice, we used the "world's pickiest product" (Zaino) on the bare, unprepped surface - all we did was mix some ZFX/Z5, apply it and buff it off.



We applied the EX in the same manner that we applied other products (Dulon, P21S, Wayne's prototype products, CK, & Glare) - as recommended by the manufacturer and as we understood the directions.



Glare says that you must use 2 coats for initial application, so we did. Dulon requires that you use pre, 1 & 2, so we did. Wayne required that we use the SMR and then the wax, so we did. CK required VM followed by Moose Wax, so we did. The EX said that if necessary, we should use a polish. Upon checking old threads at Autopia and taking a quick peek of the poorboys website, we saw that various people were applying EX on bare paint, SMR'd paint, and even over Souveran, and no one was complaining about these practices. Even in the quote above, you make reference to the fact that it can be applied over just about anything - so why is it bad to apply it over a totally clean surface?



So, we made a decision to apply it as we saw fit. I would understand the durability concern had we applied over an oily base (like SMR, glaze or Souveran), but since the surface was literally squeaky clean, I thought nothing of it and applied the EX. I can only imagine the finger pointing that would be taking place had I applied EX over something like GEPC...then I'd really be getting chastised.



Weeks went by, the car sat in the hot sun with surface temperatures regularly approaching 200F. We washed the car after 4 weeks, using a very mild solution of P21S shampoo + water and photographed the results.



I would be more than happy to retest the product, and will use whatever pre-polishes you'd like me to. I'm always looking for a "new favorite product," so if EX can wow me, then consider me a customer...but, from our initial results, I'm still skeptical.



Heck, NuFinish claims 52 washes before it dies, and I don't think anyone here believes that one... :)
 
Steve ...reread the directions, the words "If Necessary" do not exist..those are your words...and yes EX has been layered on top and under(something most products can't), totally prepared surfaces and the ones that were just putting it on top anything, including Zaino without a full prep were looking for "the LOOK" not for durability. These people are Autopians in search of the perfect LOOK.

The people reading your Report are not your everyday people..they are Autopians and people with a real desire to improve they way their vehicles already shine. 90%, if not more of the general public either don't care, drive through car washes or have someone else do it.

The directions are simple enough and the first reply on your own forum from a guy named Jerry....should have told you to go back and re-examine your methods and preparation.

You don't need my other products any good SMR prior to using, GEE sort of what Wayne had asked, would have been sufficient.

Just one more question..how much time was spent doing two or more steps with each of the other six products compare to the 3-4 minutes taken to apply and remove the EX?
 
Again, my offer to re-test the EX stands, just please make it 100% clear how you would like me to test it. I get similar complaints from people whose products didn't test as well as they'd have liked - they're quick to point the finger and nit-pick the results.



Regardless of our differences, you still haven't answered my question about why the durability would be an issue when applied over a totally clean surface. Other posts here (and at other forums as well) indicate that people apply it on plain surfaces with regularity, and no one seems to have a problem with that.



Then, all of a sudden, along comes me, testing some products for fun, and BOOM! I'm in the wrong for not using x,y,z before hand.



Also, it is critical to note that this miniature test was NOT a Guru Reports test- it was a test that I conducted with the help of a friend. It was not subject to the same criteria that Guru tests were, but rather a quick, mini-test...as I had tried to make clear.



Bashing me on forums is cool - do it if you want to, but don't blame me for using a product in a manner that many of your other customers are appearing to do so.
 
Poorboy said:


The directions are simple enough and the first reply on your own forum from a guy named Jerry....should have told you to go back and re-examine your methods and preparation.
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That "Jerry" guy is one of the biggest trolls I know of on the entire internet. He uses multiple IP's and various user ID's to purposely antagonize people. Every single response he posts is nothing but a flame or confrontation. He's been banned from Autopia for using multiple false user ID's. And he's been banned several times from Roadfly. I can only imagine what other forums have banned him as well.



The absolute last person on the internet to take advise from is that freak. He could be right as rain and I'd still never pay attention to a thing he said. Talk about someone with ZERO credibility......
 
I don't consider facts as bashing or nit-picking...I'm a little bit above that in my life...check any of my threads on any forum...

I also remember a thread where someone here was upset with NU-Finish for staining the trim and everyone here bashed him since it said nothin on the direction about using it on trim....point being ..to get the most out of a product ..you should read directions



Those are the directions the chemist who designed EX, told me the product would work best...why did the other products need a supplement? or two or three?



Again the people just experimenting over previous products and no true full detail are looking for a SUBJECTIVE LOOK...that's all..



and where's the answers to my questions:nixweiss



Go right ahead and test it if you want..please follow directions and you can use either the SMR that was used for Wayne or p21s paint cleaner or any other polish or paint cleaner at the level of detailing that you are testing...it does not have to be my products...

....as you can read there are hundreds of Satisfied users of EX....

I think Nattybumppo put it best that, there are very few if any Autopians that will go a month of not washing their pride and joy.
 
Bretfraz....I know nothing of this guy ...only what he said...and what he said is true...



if this guy goes around causing problem then...he should be banned...these forums are for improvement and fun not for flaming and bashing



remember ,if you're old enough, they used to bash Ralph Nader because he wanted safety belts....:nixweiss
 
Let's agree to disagree, and I will re-test the Poorboys EX, but this time I will us an abrasive product to prep the surface beforehand.



I will wash the car with Dawn. I will clay the car with AutoMagic ClayMagic Blue clay. I will wash again with a mild mix of P21S Shampoo. I will clean the entire hood with 3M SMR for Dark Colored Cars.



I will apply 3 coats of Poorboy EX over a period of 3 days to half of the hood. I will then apply 3 coats of Zaino Z5 with ZFX on the other half of the hood. I will apply all three of these coats on the first day, as Zaino allows for this.



I will take pictures beforehand, during and every 2 weeks afterward.



I hope that this will make you happy and will avoid any potential controversy that may arrise when the test is done.



And please - you're not bashing me?? Perhaps you've already forgotten about these rather emotional remarks:



"but don't get me started on the "Guru's fair and unbiased , and professional testing...not....they can't even read directions..." (Detail City, 7/9/03)



"these reports are worthless unless people follow INSTRUCTIONS!!! ....So much for buying a report that has misinformation for people who are depending on it!!" (Autopia, 7/8/03)



"this product as stated in the Guru report does no cleaning , yet every other product tested had a precleaner or as in the case of Zaino...4 z products used...now who is fair now" (Autopia, 7/8/03) (side note, another inaccuracy - the mini test was not a Guru Test)





I try to treat folks with respect and help them out when and wherever I can - all I ask is that I be extended a similar courtesy.
 
Poorboy said:
Bretfraz....I know nothing of this guy ...only what he said...and what he said is true...



if this guy goes around causing problem then...he should be banned...these forums are for improvement and fun not for flaming and bashing



remember ,if you're old enough, they used to bash Ralph Nader because he wanted safety belts....:nixweiss
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I'm not sure its wise to compare Ralph Nader with an internet troll. At least Nader had research and verifiable information to support his claims. They might not have been popular but at least they were legitimate.



"Legitimate" is not a word one can use to describe the troll in question. Lots of nasty people have made true statements. Doesn't make them honest and trustworthy.
 
Wow two Gurus at the same time. :eek:



If you think that's bashing ...I'm sorry...those statement were made after reading your findings and procedures on Roadfly.



Your procedures sound fine and that is an interesting comparison and actually am honored that EX will be shown sided by side with Zaino....



considering the EX is only 6 months old, it would be great to compare it to such a popular product.



One more question...wouldn't it be best to wash and maintain this hood as most Autopians would(often) and see how it stands up to the kind of maintenence that Autopians do...regular washings...

I believe that the general public is not going to be picking up or mail ordering either of these Products...



Time is late...I'm going to bed

:wavey
 
Alright!! That's it!!! I'm banning all of you!! I'm gonna.....uhmmm.... Wait. I guess I can't. Damn. :D I love good healthy debate like that. We needed some excitement around here. Things were getting too dull. ;)





Bret... "Lots of nasty people have made true statements. Doesn't make them honest and trustworthy." That is classic!!! I'm putting that whole post in my sig someday. lol :bigups
 
After all of the back-and-forth posting, the comments, the concerns, etc., I've given the entire subject more thought.



Rather than twist the premise of the original test into something that it was never intended to be, I think I will reconduct the original test, but this time, I will use a more regimented prep process that will include the steps that I listed above. As I understand your comments and official position, using the SMR under the EX will not cause any problems and should not have any negative effect on durability.



I'll re-test the other products (Glare, CK, P21S, Wayne's, Zaino, EX and Dulon), and will evaulate them every few weeks. Most non-autopians (i.e. "normal folks" :D ) don't wash their cars every week, and this includes much of the original intended audience - Roadfly.



As far as I am concerned, we're done discussing the validity of the past test. I will not be posting the results here at Autopia (as Autopia was not my original audience) nor will I update or discuss progress here. For comments, feedback, etc., please refer to the Roadfly message board.



I'll be starting the test tomorrow, the 11th of July, and will do a first wash/evaluation on 25-Jul-03.
 
Jngrbrdman said:
Alright!! That's it!!! I'm banning all of you!! I'm gonna.....uhmmm.... Wait. I guess I can't. Damn. :D I love good healthy debate like that. We needed some excitement around here. Things were getting too dull. ;)



Bret... "Lots of nasty people have made true statements. Doesn't make them honest and trustworthy." That is classic!!! I'm putting that whole post in my sig someday. lol :bigups
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Ahahaaha! I can see you twitching from Moderator Withdrawal already! :D



Along the lines of Bret's quote, how about this one: "A majority can never replace the individual. Just as a hundred fools do not make a wise man....." :eek: :nono Heheh :D
 
Wow nice debate going on.



I'll add my 2 cents.



I am one autopian that doesn't have a car. I admit it. I am broke so I can't afford one. I also just got my license on Monday (less than a week ago.)



I primarily detail family and friends car with some days I moonlight as a Pro detailer.



I don't see cars often. The most often is probably once a month at BEST. The usual for most of my detailing is once a year.



I did a blue BMW last summer, tried to polish out the swirling (light-moderate in depth, but numerous) didn't quite work that way on the hood, so I dawn washed and Zaino Z5 with ZFX X3. Fast foward a year to 2 weeks ago and that BMW was washed only once with Z7 which was 2 weeks prior to me seeing it.) The owner was amazed at hode easy the dirt and grud came off. The water sheeted and beaded like crazy he added. So I Z7 washed the car and was wow, nice. I then applied Z1, let haze, then some new Z5. I let that haze and buffed out. Wow, looked great!



Because of this. I am amazed at Zaino's durability. The car is garaged but is driven in all types of weather, it has logged 10K since the initial treatment of Zaino.



My Klasse/Zaino test is kept being pushed back. I am looking over my options.



http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24387



I am relooking over it, and I can fit you into a spot for the EX, but I don't have an of the product, plus I'm strapped for cash. But I do have a decent selection of polishes.



I can't wait to read more!
 
Yes that was an intersting discussion...but way past my bed time.:o



Steve that is a great idea to start from scratch....



The only thing I disagree with is that the general public has no idea what any of the 7 products are.....you won't find them in Walmart or Autozone or PepBoys and as someone who's been selling products at car/truck/motorcycle shows for over 15 years, I can tell you most people even with Classics and Street Rods end up using over the counter products(mostly Meguiar's and Mother's), and are not even aware of these forums.

Roadfly is an interesting forum, especially the way the threads move, but look at who it address....certainly not Ford, Chevy and Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan etc. owners who are the majority of car owners....



People who will spend 2 and 3 times the $$$$ for these products are taking care of their vehicles on a regular basis and are hoping these products hold up to their regiment of fanatical cleaning.



Just my 2 cents....
 
geekysteve said:
I will wash the car with Dawn. I will clay the car with AutoMagic ClayMagic Blue clay. I will wash again with a mild mix of P21S Shampoo. I will clean the entire hood with 3M SMR for Dark Colored Cars.



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In my experience with EX, if you want to tetst for durability and not just look, I would strongly suggest you use Poorboys Pro Polish and NOT 3M SMR. Pro Polish leaves a cleaned and polished finish with no residue on the finish. I've even used Pro Polish as a prep for UPP and it workd great and does not affect UPP bonding. In recent tests I'd say you could even use 3M PI-III Machine Glaze.



I'd be glad to send you my remaining 1/2 bottle of Pro Polish if you'd like.



Natty
 
I am not personally experienced with the current 3m line..it's been many years(15) since I used them in the body shop...all I do remember is that they were a PITA to use....Natty maybe Steve should take you up on the offer of using only Poorboy's Products if the other side will only be Zaino products...and what about prepping the whole hood with the Zaino products ::nixweiss
 
For me, it's Zaino all the way.



Longest lasting, best protection, easiest application and removal.



Looks great even after a long, cold, SALTY winter!



It's the best.



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