Best Polymers and Acrylics
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Poorboy
Founder Poorboy's World
BW that is interesting...we have atleast 5 test vehicles going on 3-4 months and still beading...what kind of maintenence were you doing and how often...we all know that the LA smog can kill almost anything...
I've been using a combination of Spray and Wipe and or QD+ ....
In fact the truck we used as a demo at Carlisle a couple of weeks ago had not be cleaned in two months after applying EX, sits outside 24/7 and was absolutely sparkling after just a 20 minute Spray and Wipe session in the sun and the truck is a Blackf250...
How many coats did you apply too?
I've been using a combination of Spray and Wipe and or QD+ ....In fact the truck we used as a demo at Carlisle a couple of weeks ago had not be cleaned in two months after applying EX, sits outside 24/7 and was absolutely sparkling after just a 20 minute Spray and Wipe session in the sun and the truck is a Blackf250...
How many coats did you apply too?
imported_RIC
New member
If you are using a combination of Spray and Wipe or QD+ for maintenance on a regular basis it would be impossible to test the durability of any wax or sealant. Each time it is QDed you are adding some sacrificial protection to the surface.
The only way to truly test durability of a wax/sealant is just with regular washings using a wash product that does not contain any kind of wax.
Then observe and measure the quality/size of the beads over a timeline to see how long the original layer really lasts.
The only way to truly test durability of a wax/sealant is just with regular washings using a wash product that does not contain any kind of wax.
Then observe and measure the quality/size of the beads over a timeline to see how long the original layer really lasts.
Poorboy said:BW that is interesting...we have atleast 5 test vehicles going on 3-4 months and still beading...what kind of maintenence were you doing and how often...we all know that the LA smog can kill almost anything...
In fact the truck we used as a demo at Carlisle a couple of weeks ago had not be cleaned in two months after applying EX, sits outside 24/7 and was absolutely sparkling after just a 20 minute Spray and Wipe session in the sun and the truck is a Blackf250...
How many coats did you apply too?
Wow, you seem surprised. Just FYI...
One coat was applied onto the 1999 black Firebird of Geekysteve's friend. It sat outside 24/7, and the Arkansas weather was in the high 90's. The car was driven about 80 miles each day. There was no maintenance - just a wash 4 weeks after application.
Poorboy's EX after 4 weeks and wash:
(Photos courtesy of Steve Litscher)
Zaino and P21S were still beading on a separate portion of the car. Same rainstorm weather and no maintenance.
Old Rattle Flat
New member
It's a combination of the beading, the shine, the slickness, and the results of a quick QD with Z6.
Gee, the advertising says 6-9 months, and I believe everything I read.
I admit it — I haven't had EX on any cars over the winter. I have it on two cars at the moment, and it has has lasted more that 4 weeks. One of my hypothesis comes from cleaning various pads. I can easily clean carnuba products, and polishes, and glazes, and Klasse AIO and Blackfire II off any of my pads without any difficulty. The only two products that I can't seem to easy clean off various pads are Zaino and Poorboy's EX, which I take as an unscientific indication that maybe these two products might last longer on my car.:nixweiss EX is listed as being an Amino Functional Resin and I do plan on putting EX on the ski van for next winter, so I guess I'll know for sure by this time next year.
Please keep in mind, that I was cleaning my teeth when a thunder storm started, so I now believe cleaning my teeth causes thunder storms.
Poorboy
Founder Poorboy's World
Well I decided to do a little research and lo and behold I found his report update called Mini test update:
Quoted:
Hey gang,
About 4 weeks ago, I started a miniature test with a few products that I'd been aching to try in a true, head-to-head test environment. Rather than test the products on a test panel, I decided to test them on my co-worker's car, a black 1999 Firebird.
He doesn't have a garage to park in, so the car sits outside 24/7. Lately, the sunshine here has been unmerciful and temps have been in the high 90's. We've also had a few incredible rainstorms since we applied the products, and Justin drives about 80 miles each day - this is the perfect test bed for a small test like this one.
We started by washing the car and evaluating the surface. After much thought, we decided to not do any prep work, but instead, just use the products and their suggested "pre-requisites" - we wanted to get a true idea of what the products were capable of on their own.
end quote....
Now first of all those who have EX read the instructions....Surface should be new or totally cleaned and polished before use....this is a bonding issue right there...he did not probably even read the instructions or have either Professional Polish or SSR1 before application....these reports are worthless unless people follow INSTRUCTIONS!!! ....So much for buying a report that has misinformation for people who are depending on it:down
Quoted:
Hey gang,
About 4 weeks ago, I started a miniature test with a few products that I'd been aching to try in a true, head-to-head test environment. Rather than test the products on a test panel, I decided to test them on my co-worker's car, a black 1999 Firebird.
He doesn't have a garage to park in, so the car sits outside 24/7. Lately, the sunshine here has been unmerciful and temps have been in the high 90's. We've also had a few incredible rainstorms since we applied the products, and Justin drives about 80 miles each day - this is the perfect test bed for a small test like this one.
We started by washing the car and evaluating the surface. After much thought, we decided to not do any prep work, but instead, just use the products and their suggested "pre-requisites" - we wanted to get a true idea of what the products were capable of on their own.
end quote....
Now first of all those who have EX read the instructions....Surface should be new or totally cleaned and polished before use....this is a bonding issue right there...he did not probably even read the instructions or have either Professional Polish or SSR1 before application....these reports are worthless unless people follow INSTRUCTIONS!!! ....So much for buying a report that has misinformation for people who are depending on it:down
As long as the surface was clean and free of other sealants, waxes, oils, etc there should be NO bonding issues. I've used Zaino without polishing, no bonding issues. Used Klasse without polishing, no bonding issues. Used other products without polishing, never had a bonding issue.
It's amazing when people's products don't test well it's automatically the testers fault, and "misinformation".
It's amazing when people's products don't test well it's automatically the testers fault, and "misinformation".
Poorboy
Founder Poorboy's World
Obvious Showroom you have not bought any EX and don't have an instruction sheet in front of you....this product as stated in the Guru report does no cleaning , yet every other product tested had a precleaner or as in the case of Zaino...4 z products used...now who is fair now:nixweiss
EX specifically says to be used on a NEW or TOTALLY CLEANED AND POLISHED SURFACE....
EX specifically says to be used on a NEW or TOTALLY CLEANED AND POLISHED SURFACE....
Poorboy
Founder Poorboy's World
Bj ...we recommend using Professional Polish or SSR1 ...but as many can see from what I understand there is over 200+ posts on EX it can be used after most any paint cleaner, as was done with the UPP test area, or any polish or glaze...
The test show that the Glare which is a cleaner/wax was used twice...Dulon used 1 & 2 and so forth through the review...one coat of EX will do very little on a surface that they describe and was not meant for that type of surface. It was neither NEW or well prepped...so to test it under those conditions makes the test for EX invalid...
If they had called for this report and asked about proper technique, I would have given them this information.
For a test as they are making it I would put my Polish w/ Carnuba up against any of the other 6 products and would have blown them away...I had it on for the entire winter 6 months total and this spring my trucks were all beading...
Yes EX has not been around long enough for winter testing, but i can assure you the Autopians will find out for themselves....if they can ever leave one product on their vehicles:lol:
The test show that the Glare which is a cleaner/wax was used twice...Dulon used 1 & 2 and so forth through the review...one coat of EX will do very little on a surface that they describe and was not meant for that type of surface. It was neither NEW or well prepped...so to test it under those conditions makes the test for EX invalid...
If they had called for this report and asked about proper technique, I would have given them this information.
For a test as they are making it I would put my Polish w/ Carnuba up against any of the other 6 products and would have blown them away...I had it on for the entire winter 6 months total and this spring my trucks were all beading...
Yes EX has not been around long enough for winter testing, but i can assure you the Autopians will find out for themselves....if they can ever leave one product on their vehicles:lol:
Care to explain exactally why EX requires a polished surface to bond correctly? This is not a problem with pure resin based systems.
I'm guessing it is related to oil content, ie wax. Products that contain wax are not "sealants" in the true sense of the word, they are hybrids much like BlackFire and Platinum. Resins won't crosslink to the surface when oils, aka wax, are present on the surface or in the complex compound. They instead attempt to bond to the oil. My guess is this is why EX requires a polished surface. Oils stick to an abraded surface better than a non abraded one. In this sense, it has nothing to do with bonding of resins, it's simply getting oil to stick better. Many "sealants" that use wax use a silicone based oil because it's more stable at high temps, and has better durability than bee's wax and caranuba. Many attribute this durability to the "resins". Wrong. It's nothing but the performance of the oil.
This is why other products don't use the word "sealant" for products that are not pure resin based systems, because they are not a true sealant.
Oh, and FYI the Zaino second was not polished either before hand but yet it was still beading perfectly. Hmm, your product would "blow away" all the other products listed? I'll believe that when I see it. If your up for the test, contact Steve directly and try and work something out.
I'm guessing it is related to oil content, ie wax. Products that contain wax are not "sealants" in the true sense of the word, they are hybrids much like BlackFire and Platinum. Resins won't crosslink to the surface when oils, aka wax, are present on the surface or in the complex compound. They instead attempt to bond to the oil. My guess is this is why EX requires a polished surface. Oils stick to an abraded surface better than a non abraded one. In this sense, it has nothing to do with bonding of resins, it's simply getting oil to stick better. Many "sealants" that use wax use a silicone based oil because it's more stable at high temps, and has better durability than bee's wax and caranuba. Many attribute this durability to the "resins". Wrong. It's nothing but the performance of the oil.
This is why other products don't use the word "sealant" for products that are not pure resin based systems, because they are not a true sealant.
Oh, and FYI the Zaino second was not polished either before hand but yet it was still beading perfectly. Hmm, your product would "blow away" all the other products listed? I'll believe that when I see it. If your up for the test, contact Steve directly and try and work something out.
NattyBumppo
Strange name, ain't it?
I just read the mini-test update and am a little confused. P21s paste wax was applied after using P21s GEPC, Zaino Z5 was applied using 3 complimenting Zaino products and the Clearkote twins were used in tandem but EX was left in the lurch all by itself.
A small snippet from the mini-test;
QUOTE "we decided to not do any prep work, but instead, just use the products and their suggested "pre-requisites" ". ENDQUOTE
If I recall the EX instructions calls for a new or thoroughly cleaned and polished finish and "suggests" Pro Polish or SSR1 be used prior to application. Maybe that part of the product label was torn or something? If they wanted to test a product that would "stand on its own" and not done any prep work at all (for all the tested products perhaps?) then PB Polish w/Carnauba would have been the one to use. Contrary to the way it was tested, EX is not a one step product.
I had EX (two coats) on my truck for about 8-9 weeks before I stripped everything to try something else. During that time I had done multiple cleanings, both bucket wash and Spray and Wipe and 2 QDs with QD+. Yes, the QD+ will rejuvinate the carnauba aspect of EX (what it was intended to do) and thus rejuvinate the topical beading and return some of the pop. But, even without using QD+ when the truck was washed it was right back to a great gloss and nothing stuck to the finish. Just because the carnauba aspect of EX wears doesn't mean the polymer resin is spent. The carnauba was added to aide in depth and warmth to avoid the purely sterile look of many engineered sealants.
I have no idea how long EX would last totally on its own. In fact, I really don't know for sure how long anything I've used in the last 18 months would last on its own. I seldom if ever go without doing some kind of maintenance before the point where any of the premium type products would fail. That includes QD'ing. If QD'ing with a carnauba based QD like QD+ and OGSO or a Polymer based QD like Platinum invalidates the merits of any final finish sealant, than I'd be willing to bet most Autopians would never be able to accurately judge their car care products. Who among us goes more than 8-9 weeks without doing something?
Just kind of weird how they said they decided to not do any prep work then used all sorts of prep and complimentary products for everything except EX and Glare. Understandable though since Glare seems like a cleaner type, one step product.
Natty
A small snippet from the mini-test;
QUOTE "we decided to not do any prep work, but instead, just use the products and their suggested "pre-requisites" ". ENDQUOTE
If I recall the EX instructions calls for a new or thoroughly cleaned and polished finish and "suggests" Pro Polish or SSR1 be used prior to application. Maybe that part of the product label was torn or something? If they wanted to test a product that would "stand on its own" and not done any prep work at all (for all the tested products perhaps?) then PB Polish w/Carnauba would have been the one to use. Contrary to the way it was tested, EX is not a one step product.
I had EX (two coats) on my truck for about 8-9 weeks before I stripped everything to try something else. During that time I had done multiple cleanings, both bucket wash and Spray and Wipe and 2 QDs with QD+. Yes, the QD+ will rejuvinate the carnauba aspect of EX (what it was intended to do) and thus rejuvinate the topical beading and return some of the pop. But, even without using QD+ when the truck was washed it was right back to a great gloss and nothing stuck to the finish. Just because the carnauba aspect of EX wears doesn't mean the polymer resin is spent. The carnauba was added to aide in depth and warmth to avoid the purely sterile look of many engineered sealants.
I have no idea how long EX would last totally on its own. In fact, I really don't know for sure how long anything I've used in the last 18 months would last on its own. I seldom if ever go without doing some kind of maintenance before the point where any of the premium type products would fail. That includes QD'ing. If QD'ing with a carnauba based QD like QD+ and OGSO or a Polymer based QD like Platinum invalidates the merits of any final finish sealant, than I'd be willing to bet most Autopians would never be able to accurately judge their car care products. Who among us goes more than 8-9 weeks without doing something?
Just kind of weird how they said they decided to not do any prep work then used all sorts of prep and complimentary products for everything except EX and Glare. Understandable though since Glare seems like a cleaner type, one step product.
Natty
"Just kind of weird how they said they decided to not do any prep work then used all sorts of prep and complimentary products for everything except EX and Glare. Understandable though since Glare seems like a cleaner type, one step product."
Something just sounds strange if the label in fact says that you need to prep before. I know from personally calling the Platinum manufacturer about their product they tell me to always prep before with a cleaner.
With EX I have no clue about the durability, but I have one customer that had beading after 6 weeks and didn't look bad at all. I put on another layer of EX so I won't be able to comment if it lasts longer that than. For me 6 weeks is very durable, I only have problems with products that can't last more than 2 weeks, like GC. BTW the EX certainly looks great and has more depth than any sealant I have used, but the look of top quality waxes is subjective with many opinions and thoughts on what the best is. There is one thing that we can usually agree on and that is what the quality waxes are.
Something just sounds strange if the label in fact says that you need to prep before. I know from personally calling the Platinum manufacturer about their product they tell me to always prep before with a cleaner.
With EX I have no clue about the durability, but I have one customer that had beading after 6 weeks and didn't look bad at all. I put on another layer of EX so I won't be able to comment if it lasts longer that than. For me 6 weeks is very durable, I only have problems with products that can't last more than 2 weeks, like GC. BTW the EX certainly looks great and has more depth than any sealant I have used, but the look of top quality waxes is subjective with many opinions and thoughts on what the best is. There is one thing that we can usually agree on and that is what the quality waxes are.
Well you are certainly getting an opinion from a pro with a great reptutation. Scottwax can make anything look great but any product he touts that I have tried has always done exactly what he claimed. I have often wondered what Scottwax's opinion might be of EX or some of the other PoorBoy products? I know that I have really been impressed with them so far.