Beginner detailer with questions

dboeren

dboeren

New member
I recently purchased a 1995 Speed Yellow Porsche 911 and would like to learn more about how to make it look its best.

Currently I'm just starting out and using Griot's Car Wash and Spray Wax with microfiber towels and their rolling bucket w/ grit guard but I'd like to start taking it to the next level.

I've been browsing the Chemical Guys site but it doesn't seem to be well organized and it's difficult to really tell the difference between their different products.

I'm thinking of adding a glaze as my next stage and then a wax (which I believe means I also need a wax remover). I don't have an polisher yet, so this would all be by hand.

The car spends a lot of time outside here in Atlanta so I want something with good UV protection, and probably some filling isn't a bad idea although the paint seems to be pretty good.

Anyway, I'm interested in any advice or recommendations that you have for me, particularly w/ regards to the Chemical Guys line but I'm also open to other brands if there's a clear benefit.
 
Do you have any objections to using a machine (da)? I ask because it will make the job quicker, easier and produce better results.

As for products, I'm not a big fan of chemical guys (aside from their stripper scent spray). I am a big fan of the Blackfire line, you can use total polish and seal, followed by wet diamond all finish paint protection, and top it with midnight sun wax - the results will knock your socks off. These can all be applied by hand or machine
 
^ +1 to what Docpeanut said. The first thing to come to mind after reading your post was a DA polisher. It would easily take your paint to the next level.

Have you tried the "Baggie Test" on your paint yet? That test will tell you if you need to clay your 911 or not.
 
Thanks for the replies so far. I have no objection to other brands, I just haven't read much about anything besides Griot's and Chemical Guys so far since I'm still quite new.


Docpeanut said:
Do you have any objections to using a machine (da)? I ask because it will make the job quicker, easier and produce better results.
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Only the cost and that I'm not educated about them yet. Do you have a recommendation for a good moderately priced DA polisher? Are there any good cordless ones? To be honest though, this is something I will probably pick up later, maybe for Christmas or whatever. In addition to cleaning supplies I've also got things like exhaust upgrades, etc... in contention for funds and there's only so much to go around :)

So here's my other question about a DA polisher - is this something that if you aren't doing it right you can cause damage to the paint? I haven't used one before so I want to make sure that too much speed/pressure/time isn't going to be counter-productive. Ideally I think I'd like to hook up with someone locally that can teach me proper technique.


Vega@Autopia said:
^ +1 to what Docpeanut said. The first thing to come to mind after reading your post was a DA polisher. It would easily take your paint to the next level.

Have you tried the "Baggie Test" on your paint yet? That test will tell you if you need to clay your 911 or not.
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I hadn't heard of the baggie test before, but I will give it a try this evening.
 
As for the DA; there are numerous videos on You Tube and on the Meguiars website that will walk you through the correct and safe way to use a DA. You can also find pad and chemical recommendations for optimum performance.

You should not shy away from a DA due to fear of causing damage. The DA is a really safe machine to use and is great for a beginner. Once you use one you will wonder how you ever did without it. It will provide you with great results at a much faster pace than anything you can do by hand.

There are several good DA's on the market. If your budget is really tight I would recommend the DA sold by Harbor Freight. I have a couple and they have really served me well once I replaced the backing plate. If you want a really high quality unit and price is not an issue; I would recommend the Griots Garage DA. It comes with a lifetime warranty. It is a great machine with an extra large 850 watt motor that provides more power than most other DA's.

If i were to recommend a line of chemicals it would have to be Meguiars and or Poor Boys. They have everything you could possibly think of to clean and condition every square inch on your car. Their products are easy to understand and are priced very competitively.
 
The initial cost will be quickly offset when you see the results your able to produce. As said above, the griots 6" orbital is a great machine at a reasonable price.
 
OK, so here's my next question - it's about procedure.

It seems to me that you need two different processes. One for when you're doing a full seal/wax job and one for the in-between washes where your seal/wax is still good, correct?

So tell me if this sounds right..

For the in-between washes it sounds like all you really need to do is wash the car and then maybe hit it with a quick-detail spray if you want because you still have a good protection layer.

But for the full jobs, it would go something like this?

Wash the car
Strip the wax or sealer (somewhat unclear on this step)
Clay bar if it needs it
Apply a glaze if desired
Apply new seal/wax (or both)

Or should you just clay bar regardless and this will also serve to strip the wax or sealant?

It also sounds like some products do more than one thing, but if you had (for instance) a wash+stripper then you'd need a different wash-only soap for the in-between washes, right?

What happens if you apply sealant or wax and there's still remnants of the old sealant/wax?

Also, I tried the baggie test and it works - I can feel more than I can with just my fingertips. Since I am feeling *something* I think that means that a clay bar pass would probably be a good idea.

The Griots orbital looks pretty reasonably priced, early I was seeing high prices for the Flex or Porter Cable machines that made polishing seem rather expensive to get into.
 
Clay bar will strip the wax or sealant. Even using a stripper soap I'd still go over the paint with clay (if needed). Rinseless washes are a nice option. They save a lot of time and produce some amazing results.

If the paint is in good condition then you can just wash and seal/wax. I prefer sealant under a wax, some prefer it the other way. Sealants and waxes can be layered on top of an old coat, it won't hurt anything. Most sealants and waxes will last around 3 months.
 
First of all congrats on a great car that's one of my bucket list cars :)

On here look at how to list to take of your car.

Car Detailing How To Information

Remember the prepping your car will give you the best shine and a quality product will give the results you want.

:welcome:
 
dboeren said:
OK, so here's my next question - it's about procedure.

It seems to me that you need two different processes. One for when you're doing a full seal/wax job and one for the in-between washes where your seal/wax is still good, correct?

So tell me if this sounds right..

For the in-between washes it sounds like all you really need to do is wash the car and then maybe hit it with a quick-detail spray if you want because you still have a good protection layer.

But for the full jobs, it would go something like this?

Wash the car
Strip the wax or sealer (somewhat unclear on this step)
Clay bar if it needs it
Apply a glaze if desired
Apply new seal/wax (or both)

Or should you just clay bar regardless and this will also serve to strip the wax or sealant?

It also sounds like some products do more than one thing, but if you had (for instance) a wash+stripper then you'd need a different wash-only soap for the in-between washes, right?

What happens if you apply sealant or wax and there's still remnants of the old sealant/wax?

Also, I tried the baggie test and it works - I can feel more than I can with just my fingertips. Since I am feeling *something* I think that means that a clay bar pass would probably be a good idea.

The Griots orbital looks pretty reasonably priced, early I was seeing high prices for the Flex or Porter Cable machines that made polishing seem rather expensive to get into.
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Claying doesn't always remove wax & sealant. It depends on what clay, what wax , and your technique. Honestly, you seem pretty set on working by hand at this point - so I'm not not going to try to convince you otherwise.

If your working by hand, nothing is better than Primo Amigo. Followed by your wax/sealant of choice or Hydro Max. Amigo is a light polish/glaze/paint cleaner/wax remover - all in one product. It's very easy to use and gives great results.

I'd stay away from CGs or Griots for the products you are enquiring about. Not that their products are bad, but there are better ones out there IMHO. CGs makes great cleaners and soaps. But for this type of hand work, I'd go with Prima.
 
Welcome to the forum! Be sure to post some photos of that car! I'm a user of the Griots line, I hear/ read good things about it. There are so many products picking a line is near impossible. IMO, you cannot go wrong with Poorboy's World products. All availabe from Autopia's store. Blackfire seems to be a big hit on the forum and I am sure it is a good line.

There is a lot of good advise on this forum. Be careful, this can be a habit! I started out like you. I bought a Jaguar S-Type and I wanted to keep it looking good. It didn't take long for it to become a hobby I enjoy!
 
Swanicyouth said:
Claying doesn't always remove wax & sealant. It depends on what clay, what wax , and your technique. Honestly, you seem pretty set on working by hand at this point - so I'm not not going to try to convince you otherwise.
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Just for the moment. My hobby budget is pretty tapped out for the moment but I do plan to pick up one of the Griot's orbitals when I can.


Swanicyouth said:
If your working by hand, nothing is better than Primo Amigo. Followed by your wax/sealant of choice or Hydro Max. Amigo is a light polish/glaze/paint cleaner/wax remover - all in one product. It's very easy to use and gives great results.
Click to expand...

I'll read up on the Amigo - I've heard a couple recommendations of that right now and it sounds like a good time-saver.

I also like what I've read about Blackfire and Poorboys. Blackfire is giving out free instructional DVD's right now and seems a bit more "premium", but I like that Poorboys has two separate glazes for light/dark cars. It certainly seems that the companies in general market more to dark cars so this seems to be a bit of a perk.

Is it common to mix products of different companies, or are they sort of designed to work together within the same product line? For instance, maybe us Prima Amigo for washing and wax-removal, Poorboys White Diamond Glaze, and then a wax/sealant from Blackfire - kind of going with what appears to be each company's speciality?

I am also going to pick up a clay bar and some tire dressing.

I will post some new pics after my next wash when all the new stuff comes in but here's a couple for now:

IMGP0680_zpsb9645be0.jpg

 
How's this for a guide?

The Driver said:
The Process & Time

Phase I

Decontamination aka "Prep"

1. Citrus Wash, Foam Canon, Power rinse.
Using citrus to break down all the topical elements such as bugs, dirt, tar, iron, bird droppings etc. The citrus breaks down everything gently, it also strips the old wax so the polish and new wax can be applied with out bonding conflict. 30 mins

2. Citrus Wash Scrub, Rinse.
Car was rewashed again, this time by hand to remove any fixed/stuck debris on the car such as tar or caked on dirt. 30 mins

3. Wheels, Wheel wells, +Dye (Later)
Wheels sprayed with Sonax, Scrubbed, drums cleaned inside an out. Wheel wells scrubbed clean. 45 mins - 1 hour

4. Soak, Clay.
The whole car is soaked, when the car is wet it is properly clayed with a proper selected density clay (Soft, Medium, Hard). Every body panel that is paint is completely clayed. Claying removes imbedded contaminants that wash mits cannot remove, think of it as removing dead skin like an exfoliator for your car. 45 mins - 1 hour

5. Full Strip, Bleeding, Removing elements.
Car is completely sprayed with CarPro Trix, this literally makes the paint bleed out all the metals imbedded in the paint, especially the ones that have bonded and cannot be removed even by clay. The car literally bleeds, the red bleeding color is chemicals reacting with Tar, Iron and other metallic elements. This is very good for cars that are regularly "pushed hard". CarPro trix strips away one of the most detrimental things to a car, brake dust. All cars shed brake dust, especially high performance cars with large rotors and calipers. This process removes all metallic elements off a surface and the added bonus of eating away lovely highway road tar. 30 mins

6. Final Wash, Scrub, Rinse, Full dry.
Car is again completely washed with citrus, this time scrubbing off all the chemicals applied before, leaving a perfect contaminant free surface which is rinsed and then fully dried by a touch less air dry unit. All cracks and crevices are completely blown out to no runs lines from stagnant water. 20 mins

Phase II

Polish aka "Perfection" - The hard part

7. Inspection & Diagnosis. The car is completely inspected under special lighting, the marks and paint analyzed, a list of polishes are then assorted from highest to lowest cut. Pads are selected, machines are also chosen depending on the job needed. 30 mins-1 hr.

8. Taping up loose ends. Rubber trim as well as other parts don't fare well when it comes to high speed polishers and the abrasives they lay down. As a result all the cars parts that aren't being polished are taped up using a special 3m automotive take designed for detailing.

9. Polishing begins, car panels are polished over 1 by 1, graduating polishes until the desired "flawless, mirror, wet look" is achieved. 4 - 60 hours

9. Exterior Parts Refinished
During the polishing process it's important that everything everything looks fresh, smooth and reflective. This means the taillights, brake lights, hazed head lights, window trim and other misc parts that can be perfected are. Most detailers will charge extra for this, as a perfectionist I can't do one thing an not do the rest. 45 mins - 2 hrs

10. Top Inspection
The name says it all, using Menzerna's Top inspection the car is completely sprayed down. The top inspection shows fingerprints and missed areas. It's also an AIO Cleaner. It is then wiped down, removing all excess polish leaving the car looking rich, deep and polished. 20 mins

11. Wax or Sealant (Your choice)
Hand paste wax is applied, by hand. To add depth and a richer color. This will provide months of protection from the sun, rain and other elements as well keeping the car cleaner for longer periods of time. Sealants do the same but last longer, however they don't provide as rich of a look. 1 - 1.5 hours

Phase III

Final Touches

12. Exterior dye
All parts that are rubber, plastic or composite are dyed if they are faded. They are brought back to a new deep, dark wet look. 30 mins

13. Interior strip
Completely vacuumed, rugs removed and vacuumed. All garbage thrown out. Interior/seat gaps are brushed out and vacuumed. 30 - 45 mins

14. Interior Clean
Everything sprayed with cleaner, removing grime in cup holders, bins and pockets. Tachometer and other dash parts thoroughly cleaned and wiped down. Roof is also wiped down or brushed depending on material. Seats completely brushed, wiped and reconditioned depending on material 1-2 hours

15. Interior Dye
Once everything is clean, a nice subtle protective layer is sprayed on the hard interior surfaces. This give a nice shine to the interior, note this is not crappy oil shine this is a subtle high end almost oem look, it's wet but not oily or too much shine. 45 mins - 1 hr

16. Full wipe down
Lastly, Everything is wiped down with an all natural, non petroleum base cleaner. To make sure no wax, polish or dye is on anything. The door jams and all crevices are wiped down to remove any excess dirt and/or water. 20 - 45 mins

17. Glass
Last and certainly one of the most tricky things to clean is glass. Both inside and out are wiped down with an all natural tin safe cleaner that leaves a flawless streak free finish. The glass is also polished with lusso cleaner to give it that extra shine and protection. 20 mins
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Timeless design. they have done a good job updating the new cars but kept the same basic silhouette so the older cars never look outdated.
 
Thanks, and I agree completely. Even when I see early 911's at a car show they still look awesome.

So, after a lot of reading reviews I think the Prima Amigo is a must-try. Everyone seems to rave about it and it will be a time-saver as well. I am also planning to order a clay bar & lubricant kit.

So then I think I just have one choice left to make for this order - what wax should I try first over the Prima? Liquid or paste? Over time I'll probably try out several but you've got to start somewhere :)

In the paste department two well-priced favorites seem to be CG XXX Hardcore wax and Natty's Blue. For liquids, there seems to be less difference in the inexpensive stuff? At least, I don't see as many reviews for them.

I want something that will not stain trim (why invite trouble?), and looks are more important than huge longevity. 2 months is more than enough, even 1 1/2 should be fine. If it's less than 1 month, then maybe not. Ideally it would give a nice deep wet warm look and have some anti-static capacity to repel dust, or is that something that would come with a quick-detailer or something over the wax?

Thoughts?
 
Interesting... I hadn't heard of those before. One thing I'm wondering though is the feedback. You can look at a clay bar and tell how much gunk you've picked up by the little particles in it. Not sure if the Speedy Prep Towel/Nanoskin is easy to visually see what you're accomplishing.

I think I'm leaning towards using regular clay for now, and then whenever that runs out maybe look at one of these.
 
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