Be careful with wheel cleaners

[David Fermani]

You should be more concerned about the asbestos you probably breathed while in your grammar, middle and high schools. Trace amounts of that is far dangerous than a wheel cleaner.

I'm screwed then. I did asbestos removal for 5 years, detailed cars and smoked. It's like a molotov cocktail for lung cancer.

 

[Bioman]

Ok, what's more corrosive, ABF or HF?



This is what one detailer told me. Most acid wheel cleaners have ABF. Now when it is sprayed onto the wheel and water is added, it reacts to break down the brake dust. From the first post, I gather that this product is HF. I have been using this wheel cleaner similar to Meg's WB full strength on my stock wheels with Chrome Lug Nuts for the last 5+ washes. So far, my chrome still looks good. When I spray the cleaner on my brake dust filled wheels straight on, no water, the dust just melts off. Then I wash it off with water. People who have diluted WB with water in their spray bottle would have a bottle of ABF+Water=HF right? Anyways, I have heard people say when using WB that their Chrome is corroding and most have diluted their WB. So, I come back to my question on which is more corrosive, HF and ABF, because my chrome is looking fine when using WB full strength.

 

[Pennypacker]

Look at a detailer's hand (like mine)that uses Acid and you'll see intense cracking. I was told that acid won't directly burn your skin, but it will actually penetrate through your skin and go right to your bones (calcium). Every time I use Acid on wheels or when I get it on my skin, I neutralize it with an Alkaline product. Otherwise, it keeps eating away. It doesn't get washed away with soap or water either.

I've been using Hi-Temp Wheel Cleaner recently, which is acidic (Oxalic Acid, Phosphoric Acid). Reading this is kinda disturbing. What alkaline product do you use for neutralization?



So if I wanted to use a wheel cleaner that is totally safe and where I wouldn't have to worry if I spilled half the bottle on me that would be what? P21S and Griot's?



Thanks

 

[David Fermani]

I've been using Hi-Temp Wheel Cleaner recently, which is acidic (Oxalic Acid, Phosphoric Acid). Reading this is kinda disturbing. What alkaline product do you use for neutralization?



So if I wanted to use a wheel cleaner that is totally safe and where I wouldn't have to worry if I spilled half the bottle on me that would be what? P21S and Griot's?



Thanks

Here's a basic PH scale:

Acid wheel cleaners fall into the extreme (-)negative end of the scale and all purpose cleaners are on the other (+) end of the scale. When mixed together, they are neutral. Each product that is on the extreme ends of the scale each have down falls when using, but in general an alkaline wheel cleaner is safer, but tends to not have "as good" cleaning ablilities. The only product I use that I neutralize is wheel acid and after applying & rinsing it, I'll spray some APC on the surface(even skin) to balance it out.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I have to point out, and this may have been mentioned in a post or link, but regular alkaline materials don't neutralize the effect of HF. You need an alkaline material that has calcium in it; calcium gluconate is one of the ones recommended to have around when handling HF.

 

[GoudyL]

Ok, what's more corrosive, ABF or HF?

It doesn't really matter, its the free fluoride ion that is doing the cleaning. The fluoride quickly bonds to anything reactive (brake dust, road grime, skin, nerve tissue, bones!) and forms a passive material. The passivated brake dust then no longer bonds to the wheel surface and falls off.



It's a bit astounding that these products are sold to consumers (and ignorant professionals). Fluoride based wheel cleaners are incredibly dangerious. Orders of magnitude more dangerious than the closest alternatives.



ScienceDirect - Annals of Emergency Medicine : Marked Hypocalcemia and Ventricular Fibrillation in Two Pediatric Patients Exposed to a Fluoride-Containing Wheel Cleaner,



Final Rule: Requirements for Child-Resistant Packaging; Household Products With More Than 50 mg of Elemental Fluoride and More Than 0.5 Percent Elemental Fluoride; and Modification of Exemption for Oral Prescription Drugs with Sodium Fluoride



Clorox Announces Voluntary Recall of QuickSilver Wheel Cleaner. - Free Online Library



:nomore:



The alternatives formulations are either alkaline detergents, or chelating acid/neutral cleaners. The acids (oxalic/citric and especially EDTA which is also found in alkaline) form soluble complexes with metals. The rest of the formula is usually strong detergents and water soluble solvents (ethers).



For myself I use turtle wax F21 wheel cleaner, and it seems to work ok. You do need a fine brush to get the really sticky grime off the wheels.

 

[GoudyL]

Simoniz got recently got hit by the EPA for over $350,000 for violations involving HF. They got very lucky that this was caught as an administrative action, and not as the result of a spill or fire. No doubt simoniz's insurance companies will want to have a talk with them as well...



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Bolton, Conn. Manufacturer Settles for Failure to Report Chemical Inventories



Release date: 04/10/2009



(Boston, Mass. – April 10, 2009) – EPA recently settled its claims against Simoniz USA, Inc. for violations of the Emergency Planning and Community-Right-to-Know Act (EPCRA) and violations of the Clean Air Act. Simoniz manufactures vehicle cleaning products at its facility in Bolton, Conn.



Last September, EPA filed an administrative complaint alleging that Simoniz, because of its use of concentrated hydrogen fluoride, violated its obligation under the Clean Air Act to submit a risk management plan to help prevent or respond to a spill. The complaint also alleged that Simoniz failed to submit forms to EPA describing its inventory of hydrogen fluoride and certain other toxic chemicals, as required by EPCRA. Failure to submit EPCRA forms reduces the public’s ability to obtain accurate information about the type and amount of toxic chemicals in a community.



Under the administrative settlement, Simoniz is required to pay a penalty of $62,300 and to perform three environmentally beneficial projects. One project requires Simoniz to commission and publish research by a third party on whether a less toxic alternative to hydrogen fluoride can be used in car wash products.



The agreement also requires Simoniz to purchase an operations vehicle for the Bolton Fire Department, to enhance the fire department’s ability to respond to spills of hazardous substances. The third project is to install a wastewater treatment and reuse system that will help Simonize conserve water. The three projects are estimated to cost approximately $275,000.



Simoniz has undertaken to commission research that could reduce or eliminate the use of hydrofluoric acid in car wash products. This toxic substance is dangerous for anyone to handle, and when used in car wash products it can easily wash down storm drains into rivers and streams.

 

[gofastman]

:wow: I like the part about calcified ligaments! I knew this stuff was toxic, but I thought it was just run of the mill automotive chemical toxic, I didnt realize it was this bad. I wont be buying another bottle if this stuff, as a cleaner it is amazing but its just not worth the risk.

has anyone tried PPC Real Wheel Cleaner? PPCbest.com

I really like their Crud Remover and their Belly Wash

 

[WaxManRonnie]

I just stick with Amazing Roll Off :dance A great deal for price per gallon, even diluted it works great...I've used it on everything and anything for the past year and still have not had to tap into my other gallon. No harsh chemicals, is safe to spray on the paint as well. A little scrub with my Meguiars brushes and everything is nice and clean. I have always been too afraid to use something like WB, I guess Id rather keep the probability of me messing up very minimal and just take my time :nixweiss

Ordered some last week. Looking forward to seeing how good it is.

 

[Nopstnz8]

I just stick with Amazing Roll Off :dance A great deal for price per gallon, even diluted it works great...I've used it on everything and anything for the past year and still have not had to tap into my other gallon. No harsh chemicals, is safe to spray on the paint as well. A little scrub with my Meguiars brushes and everything is nice and clean. I have always been too afraid to use something like WB, I guess Id rather keep the probability of me messing up very minimal and just take my time :nixweiss

Is ARO even safe on Anodized Aluminum wheels without damaging the finish? I have some at home but am skeptical about using it on my Volks.

 

[tom p.]

Simoniz has undertaken to commission research that could reduce or eliminate the use of hydrofluoric acid in car wash products. This toxic substance is dangerous for anyone to handle, and when used in car wash products it can easily wash down storm drains into rivers and streams.

Yikes! They use ABF/HF in their car wash... :bolt

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Yikes! They use ABF/HF in their car wash... :bolt

I don't take that quote to mean that there is ABF/HF in their car wash. "Car wash products" is a pretty broad description which could include wheel cleaners.

 

[tom p.]

I wonder where they were using it??

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I wonder where they were using it??

It looks like they make tunnel wash and related supplies Simoniz Car Wash Products & Information for Business Owners - Simoniz USA so that's where the HF could have been, in pre-soaks, etc.



If you read what Goudy posted, the trouble they got in was not for selling the products, it was for storing the HF at their mfg. facility without the proper EPCRA filings.