Are unions becoming obsolete?

[Corey Bit Spank]

http://www.tonawanda-news.com/story.asp?id=3738



I happened to work at the store that had the UCFW. They took $7.54 (I made a whopping 6.15/hr) A WEEK. My father had never looked at my pay check and he was surprised it was a week.



"Are you sure it's not a month, Corey?" is what he asked. It was kind of funny.



The only thing I can remember is when I was listening to Bob Rich senior talk about the union with my father, and how hurt he actually was when the plant signed in the union. He actually thought he was treating his workers very fairly. :nixweiss Well the Buffalo Plant is gone now so what does that have to tell you....



Anyway, it just seems like there isn't much a union, especially one at a grocery store, can really do. It seems like they are set up to make money. I'm sure there are some that really do have some interest in the worker's fair share in mind.



I really wish I had that $7.54 and $45 in "initiation fees" they took from me now. Maybe I can go ask for it back since I didn't use it.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Bob Rich? Buffalo plant? Whatchu tawkin' 'bout, Corey? I have worked in a bunch of unions...the ones that took the highest dues were the ones that we saw the least representation from. And oh yeah, one place the president of the union local worked with us...funny how he got an all expenses paid trip to the yearly national union get-together, for him AND his wife, so he could stay in a fancy hotel and get drunk on our dues...wait...I mean so he could talk important union business!

 

[Corey Bit Spank]

Bob Rich who founded Rich Products. The Buffalo plant was the original plant, lol.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Are we supposed to know something about Rich Products? I didn't see anything in that article, nor did you mention it.

 

[percynjpn]

If it means the demise of the UAW, the group that was one of the major reasons America's auto industry might was almost destroyed in the 70's and 80', I sure hope so!! :clap: :wavey

 

[Corey Bit Spank]

No, it was meant as a reference. A poor one at that.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

No, it was meant as a reference. A poor one at that.

So that was a local example of unionization having a negative impact on the company?

 

[DaGonz]

If it means the demise of the UAW, the group that was one of the major reasons America's auto industry might was almost destroyed in the 70's and 80', I sure hope so!! :clap: :wavey

I think you are wrong...



The "Big Three produced" crap in those years. It was when the "bean counters" were in charge of the car companies and just about every car was a cookie cutter version of itself to save money. Roger Smith just about destroyed GM while he was the Chairman of the board there.



Look what happened in the late 80's when "car people" took over... a rebirth.

You can't blame the workers for the mismanagement of the company.



I too am a union member.. the International Association of Fire Fighters, Local 1714. The IAFF has been in the forefront of firefighters safety and training issues.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I think you are wrong...



It was when the "bean counters" were in charge of the car companies and just about every car was a cookie cutter version of itself to save money. Roger Smith just about destroyed GM while he was the Chairman of the board there.

Could it be that everything was about "saving money" because the companies were being strangled by the union wages and benefits? GM is "just about destroyed" now, and Roger Smith is a distant memory...but the UAW benefits aren't. Hostile takeovers, greedy executives, and fickle investors may have sealed the fate of the Big Three, but the UAW started the ball rolling. When Chrysler was going belly up in the early 80's, I almost fell off my chair reading about what the workers were making in salary/benefits.



I'm for everybody making a fair wage, and being protected, but when things get out of whack (executive or union pay alike), everbody suffers.

 

[DaGonz]

Could it be that everything was about "saving money" because the companies were being strangled by the union wages and benefits? GM is "just about destroyed" now, and Roger Smith is a distant memory...but the UAW benefits aren't. Hostile takeovers, greedy executives, and fickle investors may have sealed the fate of the Big Three, but the UAW started the ball rolling. When Chrysler was going belly up in the early 80's, I almost fell off my chair reading about what the workers were making in salary/benefits.



I'm for everybody making a fair wage, and being protected, but when things get out of whack (executive or union pay alike), everbody suffers.

One must remember that negotiations are a two way street.



Both parties sign the contracts.

 

[Corey Bit Spank]

Actually, the problem with the UAW doesn't seem to be the benefits or wages, but how many people they have working on any given day. It just seems like many of them are "waiting for work" and being paid fairly nicely for not doing much of anything until they, uhm, find work.

 

[DaGonz]

Actually, the problem with the UAW doesn't seem to be the benefits or wages, but how many people they have working on any given day. It just seems like many of them are "waiting for work" and being paid fairly nicely for not doing much of anything until they, uhm, find work.

My father in law is GM retiree, he worked at the Framingham assembly plant. They built Olds Ciera's and Buick Centurys there.



He drove a fork lift "train" carrying engines and transaxles to the assembly area. Drop off a full load, take the empty one and bring it to the rail area, where it would be exchanged for a new train.



I think he would dispute your impression of what a GM employee did at the plant.

 

[Corey Bit Spank]

I'm not saying they're all not doing something, but they overstaff many times. This is actually straight out of a union leader's mouth from Delphi....

 

[Asonyexec]

He drove a fork lift "train" carrying engines and transaxles to the assembly area. Drop off a full load, take the empty one and bring it to the rail area, where it would be exchanged for a new train.





Perfect example of how unions strangle a company. What would happen if your father in law were asked to leave his lift truck job for 2 days because they needed extra help in (and I don't know auto mfg) interior assembly?? I'll tell you what would happen, that manager would hear "it's not my job, I drive a lift truck." And that's how unions hamper the efficiencies of companies - by restricting managements ability to move bodies where they are needed to improve a process.



I won't even get into unearned/automatic compensation increases based on nothing but a contract.



Unions had their time and they were effective but this is a free market society, if employer X isn't treating their employees well then they go to employer Y where they are better treated. Eventually (through the free market capitalist system) employer X is left with lousy employees turning out a lousy product and eventually closing its door - darwinism in the business world.



That's my red blooded proud to be a capitalist pig take on unions - a good idea whose time has past... a lot like the video game PONG :lol :lol :lol

 

[Scottwax]

If it means the demise of the UAW, the group that was one of the major reasons America's auto industry might was almost destroyed in the 70's and 80', I sure hope so!! :clap: :wavey

Agreed. Unions had their place in the early 1900s but now they seem to be all about extortion. What is really amusing is when union workers go on strike for a few weeks and end up with nominal wage and benefit increases so it takes years to make up for wages lost during the strike.



Even better is when the NHL's union kept the players out for a whole year and basically ended up with what was offered before the strike. :bigups



That being said, GMs biggest problem is not the union or health care costs, it is trying to compete with other car companies by building rental car crap like the Malibu.

 

[DaGonz]

My father in law also did his time on the line (he started out working in the body shop applying lead solder to fill the gaps when the roof assemblies were welded) and bid for the job as it came up. He didn't always agree with the Union's stance on things, but it the contracts that the UAW and GM worked out did provide him wtih the means to support his family.



Not all unions have the same stringent " not my job, man" rules. Painting all unions with your broad brush is like saying one car manufacturer's product lines are junk because you knew someone who knew someone who's brother in law's cousin's uncle had a lemon.