Are there fillers in Megs polishes?

G

Gopher

New member
A few weeks ago I helped a buddy detail his Black '02 Acura TL Type-S. We went at it with a combo of megs polishes (105, 95, 83) with him using my PC and me getting some bench time with my Makita.



We were doing prepsol wipe downs after each pass and seemed to get some really good correction, with the exception of his hood, which we improved greatly but were uncomfortable continuing to compound (5 passes with 105 was already more than I was comfortable with).



Anyway. The car looked great after polishing and we topped it with a mix of 845 IW with a few drops of #7 applied with the PC.



The car looked flawless.



Well... last night he came over and the car looked trashed! He said he'd washed it in the meantime and said he just used his "wash brush" but I doubt a single wash instilled all the swirls I was seeing.



What am I missing here?
 
There are some oils in some of the products you used that aren't intended so much as fillers, but as lubricants for the products during use. #83 will sometimes seem to finish 100% LSP ready, but in reality it needs a follow up of #80 to really finish down 100% flawless.



It usually takes JUST the right lighting to see the micro-marring or spider webs left behind, but it looks horrifying in that said light. Just hit it with another round of #80 and you should be good to go.
 
Heh heh, how to start a flame-fest with Meguiar's users/reps...suggest that their polishers, oops, I mean their "cleaners", have fillers ;)



Mike Phillips himself found #83 doing some concealing once..IIRC it was on the hood of a 'vette.



Trade secret oils, clays, whatever it is...yeah, they can conceal. And #7 *DOES* conceal flaws, no question about that whatsoever.



And yeah, #83 very seldom leaves a ready-to-wax finish, well...depending on how picky you are.



But also, yeah...*one* wash can wreak total havoc on a decent finish, taking you right back to square one.
 
The above may be true about the lubricating oils providing some filling of the uncorrected swirls, but if he was doing prepsol wipedowns and it seemed fine in between steps and after, then I'd say the friend's washing technique should be double-checked. Wash "brushes" are notorious...



That, or you may have had inadequate lighting when you were looking over your work during the process, that it may have lead you to miss something.
 
I don't want to start a flame war here. I don't really care if it does or it doesn't fill. It leaves a good finish and is cheaper than the menzerna I was holding back on using on his car. if I need to add another step of cleaning fillers better, no biggie.



That said, I was doing prep sol wipes, and though I didn't have the benefit of natural sun, we were evaluating our progress with a halogen.



I just don't know what to think as I felt this was one of my best works yet, but 3 or 4 weeks later it looks like its had a good years worth of crap cleaning technique
 
Yeah...I failed to give the prepsol wipes adequate consideration :o



Gopher- I'd *REALLY* expect the prepsol to have undone any concealing..IME the stuff hidden by Meg's products isn't all that hard to uncover. I'd bet on that wash.
 
If you did prepsol wipes afterwards, then there wasn't very much, if any at all, concealing/hiding/filling going on.



I would find that wash brush and burn it. I would say 99.9% that the brush is your culpreit. Brushes are horrible for clears and their effects will look even lot worse if used on perfected paint.
 
Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't understand why a significant correction was done on a car without instructing the owner on how to maintain it (proper washing and drying techniques, and that sort of thing). After all, except for getting to play with the machines, and products, it became a "wasted" detail as soon as he washed it with the brush.



If this guy insists on sticking with his brush washes, he might as well add a heavy glaze and wax to his car once a month, and not spend time polishing away his clearcoat.



BUT - to adress the question - I would bet your detail was pretty solid, and he hacked it with the brush / washing / drying techniques.
 
TH0001, I think you hit the nail on the head there.



Thanks all for your comments, I suspect that was it.



Weekendwarrior, to be honest it would have been more my fault then his. I taught him how to was with ONR and a grout sponge, but kind of dropped the ball for 3 weeks in helping him get an order together to have stuff for himself to take care of it.



Last night he was over after a month finally picking up supplies. I do think I told him "loose the brush" but I probably didn't emphasize it as much as I ought to have.



Don't get me wrong, it's a definite improvement over where it started--even with new swirls (it was horribly swirled and etched with tons of RIDs before not to mention weird orange peel in places due to bodywork being done prior to him buying it) but it ain't at 85-90% correction anymore.
 
I was always amazed how I could achieve a totally flawless appearance with Megs #9 on a hood with deep scratches. Obviously, the oils in #9 fill since the car still has some scratches but less deep than before:scared:
 
update: I spoke to my buddy tonight. My suspicions were confirmed. He washed with a brush after the correction.



pwn3d!



It looked like this after correction...



DSC_0198.jpg


DSC_0201.jpg


DSC_0211.jpg




At least he got a weeks worth of perfection.
 
Gopher said:
I don't want to start a flame war here. I don't really care if it does or it doesn't fill. It leaves a good finish and is cheaper than the menzerna I was holding back on using on his car. if I need to add another step of cleaning fillers better, no biggie.



That said, I was doing prep sol wipes, and though I didn't have the benefit of natural sun, we were evaluating our progress with a halogen.



I just don't know what to think as I felt this was one of my best works yet, but 3 or 4 weeks later it looks like its had a good years worth of crap cleaning technique
Click to expand...



Prepsol will not remove all the oils to show hiding, especially after the heat from the buffer pad just drove them deep into the paint. I always inspect my work using 91% IPA.



Polish a section and do 50/50 with prepsol and the other with 91% ipa and see the difference. The IPA will remove the oils in one swipe.



What type of wash brush was he using?:bawling:
 
Gopher said:
That said, I was doing prep sol wipes, and though I didn't have the benefit of natural sun, we were evaluating our progress with a halogen.
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I don't trust halogens anymore... after a 100% perfect job under halogens turned up hologramming under full sun.
 
themightytimmah said:
I don't trust halogens anymore... after a 100% perfect job under halogens turned up hologramming under full sun.
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Halogens are good for defects but can't see holograms. You have to check the finish in the sun afterward. The sun is really the only reliable source of light that can reveal holograms.
 
Holden_C04 said:
Brushes make me. :bawling:
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Well, there are a lot of different brushes ;) Good BHBs are so gentle that, when used correctly, they're often not aggressive enough for a really dirty vehicle.
 
Accumulator said:
Well, there are a lot of different brushes ;) Good BHBs are so gentle that, when used correctly, they're often not aggressive enough for a really dirty vehicle.
Click to expand...



I know which ones you're talking about. They're quite expensive and quite rare, though. Even for the Autopian, they're out of reach when you can have a GS for $1 or $2 or a sheeskin wash mitt for $10 or $20.



I imagine they might be good for doing an Autopian wash on buses or RVs, though.



This thread reminds me of the brief moments last year that I spent at a production shop. The owner called himself a 'Master Painter'. Funny, because he had an illegal bodyshop with no paint booth whatsoever. He had 3-4 cars in for work all day long. When I asked him about, he said we're getting a booth and he sprayed an aerosol can in front of me to demonstrate how safe it was for the environment.



This brings me to the point. He had contracts with the local Honda dealership. All of their used cars would go to him and 2-3 detailers would wash the outside and completely detail the inside. Every single wash (except for mine, of course) was done with the brush. I imagine the owner's vehicle, a Blue E46 sedan, was done in the same manner because every inch of it was covered in the worst swirls I have yet seen on a Blue car.
 
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