SpoiledMan
New member
Lets not take this thread in the direction of "what is what" as that will lead to it going down the tubes.
Are there biased posts....
- Thread starter Cleaning Fool
- Start date
imported_Detailing Technology
New member
Agreed Spoiledman
SpoiledMan
New member
gmblack3a said:
We just shouldn't let it turn into a X is Y but in a different bottle and costs more thread. The OP simply stated that he is getting of the Z wagon.
where does one draw the line over being enthusiastic about a product vs. trying to sell it. . . . making it BIASED ?
when autopians ask advice, myself included, i want honest answers from people willing to share their oppinions. If someone who has a posative reputation here coems out and says "i have used that, and it did not preformed as i expected" - taking the time to make sure user error or other product/applicator issues was not the cause . . .i usually will listen, and keep it in the back of my mind . . .Individuals who simply state "that stuff sucks" or its better than everything else...period" get browsed right by when i am reading threads. :ignore
as far as relabeling. . . . everybody knows certain products are relabeled . . . several people have already discussed that. . . but just because somthing is relabeled does not mean i wont buy it, or that its lower in quality.
People, IMO, should be careful how they talk about products. (most long time members here are, and their advice and words portray quality posts and logical, constructive advice and/or criticism) At least on this forum, as I would like to think we all should co-exist to help eachother, share our expieriences - and leave brand BIAS out of out responses or comments when praising or criticising a product . . . as hard as that may seem, it is possible.
when autopians ask advice, myself included, i want honest answers from people willing to share their oppinions. If someone who has a posative reputation here coems out and says "i have used that, and it did not preformed as i expected" - taking the time to make sure user error or other product/applicator issues was not the cause . . .i usually will listen, and keep it in the back of my mind . . .Individuals who simply state "that stuff sucks" or its better than everything else...period" get browsed right by when i am reading threads. :ignore
as far as relabeling. . . . everybody knows certain products are relabeled . . . several people have already discussed that. . . but just because somthing is relabeled does not mean i wont buy it, or that its lower in quality.
People, IMO, should be careful how they talk about products. (most long time members here are, and their advice and words portray quality posts and logical, constructive advice and/or criticism) At least on this forum, as I would like to think we all should co-exist to help eachother, share our expieriences - and leave brand BIAS out of out responses or comments when praising or criticising a product . . . as hard as that may seem, it is possible.
imported_Detailing Technology
New member
fdizzle said:
Qualification for a post being considered biased:
I think as soon as they put a direct link to the product for sale on a non-sponsoring site then say how they got it to "test" from such a person that works for said retail vendor.
I think thats a pretty clearly defined line to start with. But again, its not my site and its up to the reader of that post to make his or her own decisions about the validity or intentions of the poster.
I wish I could get stuff for free. As far as Stuff being relabeled I used to have a problem
then decided who cares. I have been going through the same thing with bodybuilding supplements. There are only a few companies that make certain items that are found in most proteins.
As with bodybuilding in detailing you need to find what works for you and stick with it until something better comes along. It doesn't hurt to try new things. I think from my supplement experiance is why I don't like to mix and match products I feel that with in a certain line there is synergy. Thus making products perfom to their full potential.
As you know I am a huge zaino fan. When I first ordered Zaino and the product came in I read the instructions and said F@#$ this this is too hard. So it sat on my shelf for a while. One day I had a lot of extra time and decided to use it on my Dark blue Audi S4.
Well once I saw how easy it really was to use and then saw how my paint just glowed I was hooked. I have been hooked ever since. At first I believed all the hype on products such as FMJ and Blackfire ( those CMA ads were extremely inviting). When ever I switched my car appreanace suffered. When I bought Souvran I couldn't wait. 3 coats and it was nice but lacked what zaino gave me ( as a matter of fact Surluster is just as good)
I used their wash ,polish and Souvran to make sure it bonded correctly. When ever I try a product I get their whole kit.
I think now with that Zaino is so easy to maintain I get bored and try other stuff.
I am getting smarted though I usually on try new stuff on my familiy and friends cars.
The only thing I ever got free was the Hot Wheel from Mothers Hot wheel wax.
then decided who cares. I have been going through the same thing with bodybuilding supplements. There are only a few companies that make certain items that are found in most proteins.
As with bodybuilding in detailing you need to find what works for you and stick with it until something better comes along. It doesn't hurt to try new things. I think from my supplement experiance is why I don't like to mix and match products I feel that with in a certain line there is synergy. Thus making products perfom to their full potential.
As you know I am a huge zaino fan. When I first ordered Zaino and the product came in I read the instructions and said F@#$ this this is too hard. So it sat on my shelf for a while. One day I had a lot of extra time and decided to use it on my Dark blue Audi S4.
Well once I saw how easy it really was to use and then saw how my paint just glowed I was hooked. I have been hooked ever since. At first I believed all the hype on products such as FMJ and Blackfire ( those CMA ads were extremely inviting). When ever I switched my car appreanace suffered. When I bought Souvran I couldn't wait. 3 coats and it was nice but lacked what zaino gave me ( as a matter of fact Surluster is just as good)
I used their wash ,polish and Souvran to make sure it bonded correctly. When ever I try a product I get their whole kit.
I think now with that Zaino is so easy to maintain I get bored and try other stuff.
I am getting smarted though I usually on try new stuff on my familiy and friends cars.
The only thing I ever got free was the Hot Wheel from Mothers Hot wheel wax.
Sherman8r44
New member
fdizzle said:People, IMO, should be careful how they talk about products. (most long time members here are, and their advice and words portray quality posts and logical, constructive advice and/or criticism) At least on this forum, as I would like to think we all should co-exist to help eachother, share our expieriences - and leave brand BIAS out of out responses or comments when praising or criticising a product . . . as hard as that may seem, it is possible.
I like the thought (people should gain experience with different products before making rash judgements and blind statements) but I think it's impossible to leave brand bias out of it. Just as people have opinions on specific products, their experiences will lead them to develop views on brands as a whole. As long as there is opinion, there is absolutely bias. If a schiller isn't obvious, it's all up to the reader to make up his or her mind and to take every opinion with a grain of salt. The same people who ask "WHAT'S THE BEST WAX?! NEED HELP NOW" are going to be the same people who buy the cleverly pushed garbage without thinking.
Certainly some forums promote some products, and as private forums they have every right to do so. Autopia is different from them though; Sonus is barely even talked about here! Some people push certain products, but until it becomes obvious enough to see the spam it is merely an opinion. There are flavors of the week on Autopia, but oh well--everyone has opinions.
wannafbody said:
Werkstatt is Carlack 68, I've known that since day one. Werkstatt is the US importer and has made no secret of that fact.
What I am saying is I wouldn't bash a product for being relabled, using 'inferior' silicones, etc unless I knew 100% for sure I had correct information.
fdizzle said:
One could argue that Lingenfelter is relabeling Corvettes but no one would argue the superiority of the performance vs a stock Corvette.
If some companies have custom blends made up by manufacturer X, who also sells a similar product, that doesn't necessarily mean they are one and the same, cost the same to manufacturer or perform the same. Adding RMG to Menzerna 106FF or FPII for most people improve the product by reducing dusting and giving a bit more depth. By the same token, manufacturer X may add something to an existing product that company Y will then sell at a somewhat higher cost. As long as what is added changes the product from what manufacturer X sells and gives added value, I am fine with that.
Scottwax said:
Forgive me scott, you are absolutly right . . . i was thinking to much in context - after review I can see how my words may be misconstrued.... I was actually defending your point about products like the werkstatt and carlack items you mentioned . . . sometimes relabeling can be identifed with different items . . .
Sherman8r44 said:
And you also bring up a valid arguement . . . BIAS is part of an oppinion to a degree. I pay no mind to individuals going far out of their way to promote somthing. If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is. But even when senior forum members and avid detail buffs whose work speaks for itself give advice or praise a product for it's preformance, its usually well spoken and constructive. They may have some bias indeed, but I pay much attention to those individuals who go above and beyond to offer as true a review of a product as they can.
But in short, this is why I love autopia . . . no pressure to speak only of certain products . . . however, when I am on autogeek I expect to see brand oriented oppinions, therfore it does not come as a surprise . . .:waxing:
fdizzle said:
That's what I'm wondering too. I suppose you just have to take what people say with a grain of salt. A thread like this makes me wonder: http://autopia.org/forum/detailing-product-discussion/82584-speed-glaze-spray-wax.html
I know I try dozens of products over a course of a year, and I am always glad to recommend them (the ones that work) when I think someone might like it too (just ask Sherman, he knows what I've tried! LOL).
Sherman8r44
New member
RCBuddha said:
HAHA No kidding!!! LMAO And again...that's exactly part of avoiding 'bias'...knowing who's doing the talking.
Perfect example! That thread might or might not be product pushing, but it's all up to the reader to examine its context and not take statements at face value.
Scottwax said:Actually, I was agreeing with you and adding support to your arguement.
I am beginning to see now why I never exceleld in english . . . . That or I am just not spending enough time reviweing my words before I post . . . how newbish of me . . Nice to know I said somthing that people such as yourself agree with . . . There are some questionable posts in this thread . . . I try to avoid being "that guy", while at the same time expressing my view on things in a humble, fair fashion . . . Thanks for your comments scott, thier very helpful . . .
I think the jist of this entire thread draws the following conclusions . . .
1) There will always be bias to some degree, when individuals comment on a product.
2) There are indeed other forums which cater to certain products, thus limiting the discussion to said products.
3) This forum is dedicated to oppinions, ideas and information on every aspect of automotive detailing, and is not limited (aside from general forum rules set in place by administration to keep idiots and d d d's out) to certain products. . .
4) The quality of an individuals oppinion depends on the individuals exiperience with the product under discussion, their overall skill and detailing expierience, and their actual finished results.
A general post by say . . someone like me claiming that ONR is just fantastic after using only 1/3 of a bottle on only 5 cars, means nothing compared to say an individual like scottwax . . . who probably should be purchasing it by the 55 gallon vat and has more click and brag threads than I do posts . . .
So are their biased posts . . sure. Autopia admin does a fairly great job at keeping loosers, schillers and propaganda pushers out. And when a member who means no harm chooses the incorrect words when adding their .02 . . . usually most of us will kindly comment in a mature fashion that thier thoughts should perhaps be reworded . . . I have made a few mistakes concerning information I discussed about a product, and was promptly corrected in a nice way . . . and I then learned.
The more posative and constructive posts that people write here contributes to this forums accuracy . . . and it is the reason I come back every day to hear whats going on, what the "new hottnes" is and to decide for myself if I should try somthing new or different.
Mikeyc
TheDetailingHandBook.com
fdizzle said:I am beginning to see now why I never exceleld in english . . . . That or I am just not spending enough time reviweing my words before I post . . . how newbish of me . . Nice to know I said somthing that people such as yourself agree with . . . There are some questionable posts in this thread . . . I try to avoid being "that guy", while at the same time expressing my view on things in a humble, fair fashion . . . Thanks for your comments scott, thier very helpful . . .
I think the jist of this entire thread draws the following conclusions . . .
1) There will always be bias to some degree, when individuals comment on a product.
2) There are indeed other forums which cater to certain products, thus limiting the discussion to said products.
3) This forum is dedicated to oppinions, ideas and information on every aspect of automotive detailing, and is not limited (aside from general forum rules set in place by administration to keep idiots and d d d's out) to certain products. . .
4) The quality of an individuals oppinion depends on the individuals exiperience with the product under discussion, their overall skill and detailing expierience, and their actual finished results.
A general post by say . . someone like me claiming that ONR is just fantastic after using only 1/3 of a bottle on only 5 cars, means nothing compared to say an individual like scottwax . . . who probably should be purchasing it by the 55 gallon vat and has more click and brag threads than I do posts . . .
So are their biased posts . . sure. Autopia admin does a fairly great job at keeping loosers, schillers and propaganda pushers out. And when a member who means no harm chooses the incorrect words when adding their .02 . . . usually most of us will kindly comment in a mature fashion that thier thoughts should perhaps be reworded . . . I have made a few mistakes concerning information I discussed about a product, and was promptly corrected in a nice way . . . and I then learned.
The more posative and constructive posts that people write here contributes to this forums accuracy . . . and it is the reason I come back every day to hear whats going on, what the "new hottnes" is and to decide for myself if I should try somthing new or different.
Great summation of what was an interesting thread. I would only like to add that posts are opinions and opinions are subjective statements. Opinions by their nature are biased in some way and all opinions should be taken with a "grain of salt" because they may not relate directly to your situation.
Here is something I just thought about. A lot of people don't like that manufactures give away freebies to people to review. However, it seems like everyone is always afraid to try something new and they post negative comments about new items before even trying them out. Sometimes giving freebies is the only way to get reviews going. I know I have had several products I have used and loved and nobody else mentions them. It wasn't until i threw some freebies out that anyone started mentioning them.
wannafbody
wannafbody
Danase said:
Freebies is good for business. It's a win-win for everyone. It probably improves your repeat business percentages too.