Apollo Detailing

It is like anything, I recently have had a ton of work done to my new shop so when the contracters(window blind guy,electrician etc..) come out I look for the same qualities in them as if I was in their shoes(insurance, nice work truck,uniform,website).





It also like the medical profession you ASSUME the doctor knows what they are doing, and we KNOW that is not always the case.
 
Jakerooni said:
Will a certification help you build skills as a detailer?? Probably not. however when a customer is looking for someone to take care of their $100,000 pride and joy do you think it will help them in making a descion on who to call first? Its a very valid way to stand out above all the hack and weekenders out there. Will hacks still exsist? Sure but now they stand out more. Just like with everything else we have to choose services for. If I don't have a mechanic on hand or a plumber the very first thing I do is look for certification. I know I can't possibly be the only one that does that. And I don't do it because i think for a second they do things "Safer" than the shade tree guys. I just feel they've had more training are more up to date than other guys and maybe just know more than those that are not certified. I know it's generalization on the subject but that's how my and many others minds work when it comes to choosing new things that we previously haven't had to choose before.
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I'm not sure if you're missing the point or disagreeing with it, but the problem with certification is the hacks will still be on the same level proportionally to the non-hacks... except now, it will be 10x worse because they can actually get certified and give the whole certification process a bad name, as well as the industry.



In short, at the moment, you have skilled, quality detailers that thrive off their good reputation, while you have the hacks who thrive of people without a lot of knowledge regarding the industry. If you were to go through with some sort of certification process/program, you would have skilled, quality AND certified detailers thriving off their reputation, and you'll have hacks doing the same exact things as before, except now they spent an extra 20 hrs to learn and pass the certification process and are called certified detailers... if there was some sort of clause to the program to constantly prove you are fit enough to keep your certification then fine, but there's no way to keep track of everyone's work flow... at the end of the day, you would only be empowering the hacks with a plaque on their wall
 
I can see the point. In every single profession out there you're always going to have hacks operating. It's a fact of life. But it dosen't stop other professions from being mandated to liscence up. And I wouldn't have it anywhere close to 20 hours. If I were in charge I would mandate minimum 600hours before you could even wash a car and call yourself an "apprentice" then probably 1200 hours of actual training to be considered a "detailer" and then 2500 hours of training and at least 5 years of actual on the job experience to be considered a Master. Only a liscened "Master" would legally be able to own and operate a business. Everyone else would have to be under a Master and only so many would be allowed. And just like the other feilds operating without a "Masters" liscense would be subject to huge penelties and fines. Say $50,000 for first offence and up from there. Do something like that and watch how quickly this profession cleans up. and how qucikly other "hacks" quit wrecking our repuations we've all worked years to build up.
 
I think what Setec is saying is there is generally a difference in the amount of damage a detailer can cause, and the amount of damage someone like an electrician can cause. A detailer might, at worst, cost you a bunch of money after messing up your paint; but him messing up won't kill you. Now I am playing devil's advocate, because I'd love to see some sort of certification; I just have no idea how it'd work.
 
I don't think detailing should be something that's governed or anything like that, but I do think that there should be some association or something that if a detailer wants to be certified or not, it's his/her choice. I know there's some detailing associations that have been started, but I don't think they've really taken off yet, as most detailers can't see a real benefit of being a member and paying fees, etc. Once it does kick off though, I think it will be a fantastic thing because it may start to show people that were aren't just janitors with a different mess to clean. Hmm, maybe I'll join that soon and do my part in helping it lift off...
 
Jakerooni said:
I can see the point. In every single profession out there you're always going to have hacks operating. It's a fact of life. But it dosen't stop other professions from being mandated to liscence up. And I wouldn't have it anywhere close to 20 hours. If I were in charge I would mandate minimum 600hours before you could even wash a car and call yourself an "apprentice" then probably 1200 hours of actual training to be considered a "detailer" and then 2500 hours of training and at least 5 years of actual on the job experience to be considered a Master. Only a liscened "Master" would legally be able to own and operate a business. Everyone else would have to be under a Master and only so many would be allowed. And just like the other feilds operating without a "Masters" liscense would be subject to huge penelties and fines. Say $50,000 for first offence and up from there. Do something like that and watch how quickly this profession cleans up. and how qucikly other "hacks" quit wrecking our repuations we've all worked years to build up.
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You don't think this would ruin the industry as a whole? In a big city, this might be feasible by the sheer amount of potential work...but in smaller cities and towns, nooone would want to detail. In my area, most details consist of 50-100 jobs. Noone Ive come in contact with would spend 5 years of training to do $50 jobs.

Youd be asking detailers to be trained for years to do work that to most, is considered no more important or neccessary then janitorial work.



Youd also squeeze the small enthusiast out of the market. I go to school full-time and detail about 1 car per week. I wouldnt have the time to be taught by a 'master'. So some hack who got his certification would be looked upon better then myself, simply because I dont have certification.



I still dont believe this industry has reached the point where it needs this, yet.
 
You're not seeing the potential at all then. Why on earth would anyone work for $50? The prices most definatly would go up.. people that have already been out there working for years only need to "prove it" So those enthisiest would be safley certified. Just show a portfolio, website, pictures, with you detailing in them. I don't think that would be hard at all.



Remember way back when... Wrenching on a car was considered nothing more than lowly labor grease monkey work that anyone with a 4th grade education should be able to do... Now we all know better. So this would potentially raise awareness greatly to the general public. and it would really seperate the wash boys from the detailers. Anyone can still go to a swirl o matic and get a *cough clean cough* car all they want. You don't want to spend time training.. Go be a wash boy. This is just something to pass the time until you get a degree?? Again go be a wash boy. You want to make a serious run at a serious business spend the time training properly. It would solve alot of issues. Like for one idiot noobs thinking that they have the right to charge outrageous prices for services they simply just are not qualified to do. I really don't know. So far outside of a couple of devil advocates for conversations sake I've yet to see a single realistic reason why this wouldn't be a good thing
 
I don't see myself as a problem to NOT having the detailing industry certified but rather the questions I have raised are legitimate. and pose problems. I don't discourage certification BUT detailing, unlike plumbers, mechanics, electricians and the such, is a non-necessity.



No one MUST have their car detailed because they can just do it themselves. Not everyone can re-wire their house or lay down a new roof or install new brakes.



I pay for and hold all the insurance I need to operate my business, when I have employees I pay for all the correct taxes, have everything in order that the city I live in requires to operate my business so I already run a legitimate business and I do not need a "certificate" or another detailer or governing body to tell me I am not.



Anthony
 
Jakerooni said:
You're not seeing the potential at all then. Why on earth would anyone work for $50? The prices most definatly would go up.. people that have already been out there working for years only need to "prove it" So those enthisiest would be safley certified. Just show a portfolio, website, pictures, with you detailing in them. I don't think that would be hard at all.



Remember way back when... Wrenching on a car was considered nothing more than lowly labor grease monkey work that anyone with a 4th grade education should be able to do... Now we all know better. So this would potentially raise awareness greatly to the general public. and it would really seperate the wash boys from the detailers. Anyone can still go to a swirl o matic and get a *cough clean cough* car all they want. You don't want to spend time training.. Go be a wash boy. This is just something to pass the time until you get a degree?? Again go be a wash boy. You want to make a serious run at a serious business spend the time training properly. It would solve alot of issues. Like for one idiot noobs thinking that they have the right to charge outrageous prices for services they simply just are not qualified to do. I really don't know. So far outside of a couple of devil advocates for conversations sake I've yet to see a single realistic reason why this wouldn't be a good thing
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Jake I'm not playing devil's advocate nor am I disagreeing that it would be good.. I"m simply saying it would do more harm than good in my opinion... those wash boys can still do some hack work for the 99% of people who will not even notice the certification for years (people notice the stuff when it comes to mechanical work because, as it's been said numerous times, that's a necessity, whereas what we do is a luxury)... at the same time, I will have to go work under someone because I do not have yet an x amount of hours under my belt... lastly, I think it would create too big of a gap between part-time detailers, such as myself (yes I plan on doing full-time in the next year or two but that's beyond the point) and full-time "master" detailers, and that gap is filled simply by those hours of experience...



If properly regulated and planned out it could be a great thing because every certified detailer could be able to charge a minimum hourly rate due to that certification, but the point still stands that this is a luxury service and not a necessity.. yes people that come to you will feel safer and better about your services, but will people want to come when they see the minimum hourly wage? I would compare it to a chiropractor vs. a masseuse... do I want to see the chiro's certification before he goes and breaks every bone in my body? yes.. do I want to see the blonde polish chick's certification before she runs her hands up and down my body? what's a certification?



I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just providing opinions... I think it could work if a bunch of experienced AND inexperienced people sat down for weeks and figured something out.
 
Oh and don't think what I'm tossing up is anything that would or wouldn't work I'm just tossing up ideas I come up with. First thing would be a governing body would need to be established. They would come up with the rules. And if you don't want to look at what we do as a "skilled trade" like mechanics and plumbers and such how about looking at we do like Artist? The real good ones trained under someone somewhere at sometime and are well known for it. Same should be said for us. We need something.. If anyone has any ideas as to what other than "That will never work" by all means toss up some idea's. Right now we control our own future not someone else. We can decided what is needed and what isn't. But the goal is for the industry to grow with high skilled detailers not just a bunch of filler hacks calling themselves detailers.
 
Jakerooni said:
So you basically saying we are a "hack trade" that deserve nothing more than a meaningless reputation and have no real skill involved that should be recongnized then??
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If you know me, you know I would never malign any kind of honest work. I will also malign any hack, regardless of industry, and there are plenty, as mentioned, even doctors and lawyers, who are highly regulated.



I think we got a little wrapped around the axle on this one. Plumbers and electricians are regulated by state government. In this budget environment (or really any budget environment) I highly doubt you would get anyone in government interested in regulating detailing.



However, IIRC, ASE is simply an industry organization (and there are no "mechanic" governmental regulatory bodies other than for fraud, etc.), and there have certainly been some attempts at self-regulation. I applaud those efforts, it's just that the general public really doesn't know anything about any certification programs for any industry. How many people actually know the steps a doctor follows (education, internship, residency) or a lawyer...or an A&P mechanic, or ASE, or plumber, or electrician, etc.....they don't. I think most people's eyes would glaze over trying to understand how a detailer's certification would make him better than the car wash guys...and if the car wash guys found that certified detailers were taking their hack details away, they might get their own hack certification program going, and try explaining how yours is different/better...
 
Look, the last thing any legitimate detailer needs is the government certifying you to run a detailing business. The government has already screwed over enough small businesses.
 
Amen to that ^^, Lets just let it go guys, there are some bad detailers out there and there are some good ones. Evidently, we pin pointed one on here. Lets move on with life and happy detailing.



- T
 
This thread had the potential to go for infintum......... but there were some very good points brought up by like minded professionals in the trade.
 
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