anyone NOT impressed with Klasse AIO?

Ok wait, I think most of us here are capable of carrying on a civilized discussion about whether we like AIO or not. There's no need to start flaming other members here on a personal level.



Either take it out via PM or please sign off Autopia.
 
I personally use AIO after my paint is prepped (swirls and scratches gone). I use it for its added wetness and its bonding capability. Some products don't bond well but I find Klasse AIO works great.
 
Hehe.. I'm still quite the newbie, for what its worth though, here are my two cents. I *do* like KAIO, not only because of the clean look it gives my paint but also for that fact that it seems to add longevity to whatever I put on top of it. While Meg's ColorX does seems to remove actual paint defects better, I've always gotten horrible durability out of whatever I used on top of it? :nixweiss 'course those are just my personal experiences, and I don't use either as a standalone. I can see how they both have their place, but I'll probably keep reaching for my KAIO first.



- Andrew
 
percynjpn said:
I've applied AIO as thin as humanly possible many times on various paints and colors (this was the original formula), and it does buff off easily and look good as an LSP. However it does little to improve the condition of the paint and in MY experience, has lasted 3 months at best as a LSP.



That's in contrast to Zaino Z2, which I started using several months ago; one ZFX application applied to both my Nissan and the wife's Mazda, and their both shining far better than they did with AIO. Five months after that one application, the beading just won't die, and the look is still fantastic. So considering durability, IMHO there's no comparison between Zaino and AIO.
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I would agree with you if you are comparing AIO alone with Z2. However, IMO that is hardly a fair comparison, since AIO is not intended to be a competitor with Z2. AIO is a paint prep product with some acrylic sealant protection. Z2 is a true LSP sealant.



In my previous post I was comparing the durability of AIO topped with 2-3 coats of SG to other long lasting sealants and waxes (I use at least 3 coats of KSG on my vehicle). SG is a product that particularly benefits from layering over itself in terms of both looks and durability.



Most people don't use AIO as an LSP. AIO used in conjunction with KSG provides durable protection that matches any other product on the market.
 
AIO is SUCH a versatile product I think I will always use it. I tout its abilities often, and it seems like every time I detail I find something else it can do. I too think that the AIO/SG combo when done well looks fabulous. I do AIO/SGx3 on my wife's car every winter to seal it up. Looks great, very durable, and I can top it with just about anything out there. AIO for the win!
 
Milestones . . . well put . . . just like the guys on the Zaino forum that have 10+ coats on their rides . . . KSG users layer aswell. I was troubled at the fact that one coat of ksg really didnt do much. 3 more coats . . wow, the paint looked like a different car . . .



most avid AIO fans dont use and have never used AIO as a LSP. It has the durablility of a cheap wax. . . But like the ZFX bonding agent and flash cure accelerator Zaino uses, AIO helps make that SG stick like tar on paint . . . Besides, most hard core people who use polishes dont need AIO's weak cleaning polishing ability, its mainly for prep . . at least for me . .
 
Milestones said:
I would agree with you if you are comparing AIO alone with Z2. However, IMO that is hardly a fair comparison, since AIO is not intended to be a competitor with Z2. AIO is a paint prep product with some acrylic sealant protection. Z2 is a true LSP sealant.



In my previous post I was comparing the durability of AIO topped with 2-3 coats of SG to other long lasting sealants and waxes (I use at least 3 coats of KSG on my vehicle). SG is a product that particularly benefits from layering over itself in terms of both looks and durability.



Most people don't use AIO as an LSP. AIO used in conjunction with KSG provides durable protection that matches any other product on the market.
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Yes, all that's true, and I'm well aware of it. I've used AIO as an LSP, and topped with other things (though not with Z2) including SG, and in all cases the durability was pretty much the same (though adding 3 coats of something like SG - I would hope - make it last longer).



I think, however, that this point: In my previous post I was comparing the durability of AIO topped with 2-3 coats of SG to other long lasting sealants and waxes is insightful in relation to Zaino and others. After paint prep with a true polish/ swirl remover, I can simply apply a coat of Z2 and get excellent long term protection. How long does it take you to apply 3-4 coats of AIO/SG to get the same results?
 
percynjpn said:
How long does it take you to apply 3-4 coats of AIO/SG to get the same results?
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Not long - and that's the point.



If you apply KSG correctly, it is actually very easy to put on and remove (as you concede in your post above).



What I do is put on a coat of KSG after weekly washings for 3-4 weeks in a row. It's simple enough to do and it doesn't add that much to the weekly maintenance routine. At the end of the 3-4 weeks you have an absolutely brilliant shine and durable protection that should last at least 5-6 months (much longer with the occasional use of a booster spray).



I'm not trying to knock Zaino. It's a great product.



I'm trying to clarify for someone who is reading this thread who is not familiar with the products that the Klasse twins, when used properly, will provide durability which matches any other product out there - Zaino included.



IMO some of the previous posts could easily be interpreted by the unitiated to mean that Klasse doesn't provide durable protection - and that's simply not true.



Which product is more of a hassle to use to get the durable results - Klasse or Zaino? That is a judgment call.



You probably do have to apply several coats of KSG to equal the results of one coat of Zaino - but both products benefit, in terms of looks and durability, from multiple coats.



With the use of the flash cure additive, Zaino allows for the application of immediate multiple coats. However, not everyone wants to deal with the hassle of being an amateur chemist and mixing in the the ZFX to Z2/Z5 in little mixing bottles/containers.



Both Klasse and Zaino have well deserved places in the detailing "hall of fame" and both will provide durability which is among the very best available.



Which one folks prefer will come down to personal preferences regarding the subjective factors and tradeoffs relating to the looks and ease of application of the products.
 
You probably do have to apply several coats of KSG to equal the results of one coat of Zaino - but both products benefit, in terms of looks and durability, from multiple coats.



That was the point of my last post.



However, not everyone wants to deal with the hassle of being an amateur chemist and mixing in the the ZFX to Z2/Z5 in little mixing bottles/containers.



I totally agree; that's the thing I dislike about it the most.
 
Milestones said:
You probably do have to apply several coats of KSG to equal the results of one coat of Zaino - but both products benefit, in terms of looks and durability, from multiple coats.
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hmm...is there objective evidence to support that ?



(I'm using Klasse AIO/SG but too soon to be a real fan. I've heard good things about Zaino, but a claim like you made seems pretty bold without some data to back it up).
 
abbeysdad said:
hmm...is there objective evidence to support that ?



(I'm using Klasse AIO/SG but too soon to be a real fan. I've heard good things about Zaino, but a claim like you made seems pretty bold without some data to back it up).
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Objective evidence in terms of empirical scientific evidence by running an actual side-by-side test? No.



Ample anecdotal evidence in terms of many posters here at Autopia posting findings along these lines from the use of the products at issue? Absolutely.



We talk a lot about doing tests here at Autopia - but it is very rarely actually carried out. What that leaves us with is making judgments based on the ancecdotal evidence of Autopians' actual experience using products.



Would I feel more confident about the statement "Klasse SG requires multiple coats to equal the durability of one coat of Zaino Z2/Z5" if I had seen an actual empirical test that demostrated this for a fact? - Of course I would.



Do I still feel confident that it is an accurate conclusion based on the statements of multiple Autopians that in their experience one layer of KSG generally does not last 4-5 months while one layer of Z2/Z5 generally does last in the 4-5 month range? - You betcha.



If their is a scientific test that demonstrates otherwise or the weight of anecdotal evidence seems to indicate otherwise, I am certainly open to reaching a different conclusion. But providing a wealth of experience as a resource to draw upon in forming our own conclusions based on the weight of anecdotal evidence/recommendations, is one of the chief benefits and purposes of a forum like Autopia IMO.
 
Everything with a grain of salt. I'm convinced that most with the autopian mind set, perhaps especially those in the Zaino camp, don't (or can't) wait 6 months before applying another layer of love.

I read one fan claiming his durability was excellent and it's been 3 weeks !!! (But I'll bet he applied another layer or switched to something else!



Don't get me wrong, they're both (Klasse & Zaino) excellent products that have been on the market for a long time, but I've spent a lot of hours in the last several months reading and reading posts in here and I just didn't come across the observations or empirical evidence that led to your conclusion.

As a matter of fact, as often as I see people using multiple layers of KSG, I see people reporting multiple layers of Z.
 
Forgive me fellas, as I only read a couple replies before deciding to give my 2 cents on AIO.



As a swirls remover, it works okay. BTW, I've hear a lot of people say it isn't abrasive (it must say that on the packaging or something), but trust me, it has abrasives in it - if I use it to polish soft black paint, I can clearly see the tell-tale micro-marring of polishing abrasives...it just doesn't have a whole bunch of 'em.



As a last step product, it is also okay...but nothing like a pure sealant durability and slickness wise.



Where AIO excels beyond any other product I've found is in trim restoration and preservation - use this stuff to buff smooth and textured plastic (especially smooth) and you'll see what I mean.



Because it does not staim trim (actually, it improves it as above), it's great for polishing parts of the vehicle that are hard to tape off - like mirrors with both painted and unpainted plastic and even the vertical supports that typically separate the side windows on 4-door cars.



Because of its cleaning properties, it's also great for removing oxidation (ss paints) and is superb at removing water spots off of windows (and you don't have to tape off the moldings!).
 
Milestones said:
Objective evidence in terms of empirical scientific evidence by running an actual side-by-side test? No.
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Actually, there's quite a bit of empirical data and scientific testing out there. Just have to look for it. I've done some of it myself, particularly on Klasse AIO & SG.



But, scientific or methodical data is always ignored when emotional hyperbol is more interesting. Just look at any car washing thread here where Dawn dishsoap comes up.
 
AIO was the 1st product ( car care), I ever ordered online. I was not disappointed. But since I detail as a hobby, and for family only, I seldom use those type of products. Once my prep is done, I'm shooting for maximum layers of LSP.
 
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