Accumulator
Well-known member
turbocress- You might also try a follow up with some Menzerna finishing polish. That seems to cut away the residual M205 stuff while upping the gloss and clarity.
anyone else have a little trouble with the 105 205 combo?
- Thread starter Turbocress
- Start date
Turbocress
New member
Accumulator said:
thanks, i was looking for a decent finishing polish that could follow the 205, or possibly another line of mild/agressive, to fine polish, to finishing for a solid 3 step
Accumulator
Well-known member
Turbocress- The additional third step oughta be pretty mild, maybe even FPII-mild.
SuperBee364
New member
Accumulator said:
On hard clears, UF, PO85RD, or even PO106FF(A)
On medium clears: UF, PO85RD, or FPII
On Soft clears: UF, FPII
All IMO, of course.
106 doesn't really seem to add much gloss to a 205 finished surface, but the other polishes should not just take out any holos 205 left, but also take the gloss up a notch.
If time is of a concern, go with the UF. It cleans up after 205 *really* fast. Four quick passes (one application) of UF will pretty much clean up after 205 on just about any clear, hard or soft. UF will clean up after 105 most of the time, for that matter.
SuperBee364
New member
Edit: whoops.. posted in wrong spot.
Accumulator
Well-known member
SuperBee364 said:
Well, working via DA (Flex 3401 and PC/4"), the 106 I used on the M3 sure *did* make for better gloss than the M205. Enough so that I went back and redid the whole [expletive] car even though the soon-to-be-new owner probably wouldn't have noticed
I mean...I was pretty prejudiced against the 106 (whichever version my Flackfire stuff is
) after that 106FF filler issue on the Yukon, and I only reached for it when I got that bad gallon of M205 and needed to finish with *something* that'd work well on hard clear. I simply never expected to suddenly be confronted with irrefutable proof that hey, this (newer) Menzerna stuff really *is* something else. Heh heh, I wasn't just an impartial tester, I was negatively predisposed!
SuperBee364
New member
Accumulator said:Well, working via DA (Flex 3401 and PC/4"), the 106 I used on the M3 sure *did* make for better gloss than the M205. Enough so that I went back and redid the whole [expletive] car even though the soon-to-be-new owner probably wouldn't have noticed
I mean...I was pretty prejudiced against the 106 (whichever version my Flackfire stuff is
Good to hear you got good results with the 106, but you're selling the M3?? I'da let the new guy put all the effort in to it... wait... no, actually I wouldn't.
imported_Jakerooni
New member
Just reading through this and I do have to add... via the PC... I've having nothing but trouble and sub par results with the 105/205 combo. Now I don't want to toss out the word "Filling" but it seems to me something is going on here that I haven't experienced before with the combo. I've talked with several other pro's that have used it and they seem to be on the same thought process. via rotary I don't seem to have any issues. So I'm still looking into the problem. But I'm getting almost the exact results as pictured eariler in this post with the PC. It's got me worried now.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Jakerooni said:
Maybe PC's the lack of speed/direct application of force fails to dissipate the oils or something :think:
I still think M105/M205 is the best combo (at least for the paints I'm working, you pros probably encounter many more, differing situations) for what it does via PC/Flex 3401, but yeah, there are times when it can be mighty frustrating having to clear things up after the major work has been done.
SuperBee364 said:...you're selling the M3?? I'da let the new guy put all the effort in to it... wait... no, actually I wouldn't.
Eh...I'm pointing out all the issues, including the over-thinned clear. It's going to a dealer that I have a good relationship with; he and I are always up-front with each other. Anyhow, I'd rather lose money than try to slip something by anybody.
The car is maybe ~$2K away from being really, really wondeful, hope the next guy spends the money.
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
Jakerooni said:
Hmmmm, that's intersting. Maybe you're doing something wrong? I've witness zero filling with 105 via KBM. You should call Kevin and he might be able to coach you a tad bit. It's really technique dependant. It's a very valueable and highly used proess in my arsenal these days. I know you'd love it if you shared the same results as me as well as many others. It's like using liquid sandpaper to adrade away defects with very little micromarring. It's actually quite amazing. I've demo'd it to quite a few body shops and nothing is more
pleasurable then watching the look on a painter's face when they see the results that can be done. Every single one doubted it at 1st. :grinno:
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
HaHa - You'd be better off waiting for Kevin Brown's paper to come out before you catch me trying to post a video. :grinno:
imported_Jakerooni
New member
Well there's a couple of things that it could be. first being the CCS pads. (only small D/A sized pads I currently have) Intially the results are like glass. it's a couple of days later that things seem to be showing back up. I'm almost positive it's just my technique as I don't use the D/A for correction purposes. But I really wanted to give this a shot. And like I said. Out in direct sunlight even after checks it looked great. but 48 hours later just not the case. It was spotty. (which is also leading me to think technique) some parts were still smooth as butter while others were looking like they were never even touched by anything. Never had this issue with the rotary. But the past few details I've done with the D/A have all seemed to come back to bite me in the arse. I know the pressure is good. Guessing the pad choice needs to be dealt with first and see if that helps. Thanks for the suggestions
Accumulator
Well-known member
Jakerooni- That's helpful info IMO with regard to figuring out what's going on!
I did a *lot* of "coarse-correct it then leave it for days" 105 work on some vehicles (me and my weeks-long projects :0 ).
I *did* find the micromarring was much more obvious after it sat for a while. Not quite the same thing as the more serious issues you're rediscovering, but maybe the same root cause- all the oils.
Similarly, I've had some pretty dramatic oils-dissipating issues when I used M205 on exterior plastics too..after a few days they looked *worse* than when I started!
I kinda suspect that your pads are making it harder for you to do uniform work and that the "kinda skipped over" areas are harder to spot because of the oils.
I wonder how IPA/PrepWash/etc. would help...might make it a lot easier to see the areas that need more attention.
Given your usually rotary-centric approach, I think it's perfectly understandable that some areas aren't getting quite enough correction; even when KMBing it's just not the same as hitting a panel with the rotary. Heh heh, yeah...even for *me*, and I'm Mr. so-NOT-a-Rotary-Meister
What size pads were you using, and which PC, the regular one? Kevin Brown and I have kicked this around a few times, and those big pads just don't do it for me.
I did a *lot* of "coarse-correct it then leave it for days" 105 work on some vehicles (me and my weeks-long projects :0 ).
I *did* find the micromarring was much more obvious after it sat for a while. Not quite the same thing as the more serious issues you're rediscovering, but maybe the same root cause- all the oils.
Similarly, I've had some pretty dramatic oils-dissipating issues when I used M205 on exterior plastics too..after a few days they looked *worse* than when I started!
I kinda suspect that your pads are making it harder for you to do uniform work and that the "kinda skipped over" areas are harder to spot because of the oils.
I wonder how IPA/PrepWash/etc. would help...might make it a lot easier to see the areas that need more attention.
Given your usually rotary-centric approach, I think it's perfectly understandable that some areas aren't getting quite enough correction; even when KMBing it's just not the same as hitting a panel with the rotary. Heh heh, yeah...even for *me*, and I'm Mr. so-NOT-a-Rotary-Meister
What size pads were you using, and which PC, the regular one? Kevin Brown and I have kicked this around a few times, and those big pads just don't do it for me.
imported_Jakerooni
New member
I have the 5.5 pads for my D/A. I plan on making a pad order in the next week or so and I'm getting a whole new stock of flat pads various sizes. Maybe once I get those in I'll give this a shot again. Right now I'm more concerned about previous clients that might have picked up a "Good looking" car by all standards.. I know I need to go touch up some spots on that Ram I did. (heading there tomorrow) I've been contacting other clients as well to see if their results have remianed the same or have gotten spotty. Last thing I want is to be selling spotty services.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Jakerooni- Understood regarding your clients. Also, this might be a case of trying to fix something that's not broken, since you do so well via rotary.
Anyhow, I'd be interested to hear what you think if you revisit this with the smaller pads.
Anyhow, I'd be interested to hear what you think if you revisit this with the smaller pads.
I used the M105-M205 combo today on my '95 F-150. I see what everyone means about the 105 flashing so quickly! I was using a Flex 3401 with LC orange flat pads and I had very little working time; it did remove alot of swirls and minor scratches though. Pain in the a$$ to remove.
I liked the 205. It gave good work time and gave me non of the troubles the 105 did. If they could only make 105 work more like 205...
I liked the 205. It gave good work time and gave me non of the troubles the 105 did. If they could only make 105 work more like 205...