anyone else have a little trouble with the 105 205 combo?

T

Turbocress

New member
so i initially never used m105 and m205 before, so i ordered them with some new pads... before i had used meguiars heavy cut with a yellow pad for correction on a rotary, and finished with swirl free polish ( m82 i think) with a cream pad.





so i used the new combo on my toyota supra to test (its black, so good to tell what happens on it). the 105 looked like it definately removed defects, i used it with a PC7424xp on an orange lc pad, but the compound simply dried incredibly quick and gave me a ton of dust to work with.... i plan to correct this stage by priming the pad often with a wet detailer spray, hopefully cut down on dust, and allow me to work the product easier to keep it moist, as well as wipe off the residue without producing marring afterwards.





but after using the 105 i always got a form of hazing and light scratches, is that normal? wasnt sure on the effects of m105 if it was too harsh or if the technique was wrong, didnt see much of that effect on tutorials for using m105.





and then i used m205 on a black lc pad to finish it out... and i THOUGHT i was getting everything... unfortunately i got my brinkmann xenon in the mail a day or two too late and saw a bit of hologramming in the sun....



so was the gray pad too soft to work the 205 in with? or did i simply not work it long enough? i probably spent about 30-45 minutes per panel with the 205 to work it long enough to remove the marring from the 105, but it just looks like it wasnt enough cut to polish out the the 105.



suggestions would be very welcome to help me get to a very holo/swirl free finish using this combo.



i tried searching but couldnt find anything specific to the question i had, thanks guys
 
I had hazing with the 105 doing my GMC Denali...



I would use a white (LC) Pad with the 205. There is really no cut on the black pad. Shouldn't take you 45 min per panel with 205.
 
thedetailer said:
I had hazing with the 105 doing my GMC Denali...



I would use a white (LC) Pad with the 205. There is really no cut on the black pad. Shouldn't take you 45 min per panel with 205.
Click to expand...



yeah, figured it was taking a little long to get a good cut with it.



ill end up givin it a try soon if the weather picks up a little bit.





anyone ever have a problem finishing out with 205 and a white pad? or does it require a diminishing abrasive finishing polish??
 
Scottwax said:
You need to follow #105 with #205 using a polishing pad for best results.
Click to expand...



to remove 105 hazing/holos, does a gray pad or a white pad typically work better for an average clear coat (not corvette hard, and not honda soft)
 
Your not doing something right if your getting hazing. I can go straight to wax after #105 most of the time.



I havn't a clue about your orange pad. Give a firm pad like Meguiars maroon pad a try with 105.



Yes it is dusty!
 
Turbocress said:
..so i used the new combo on my toyota supra to test (its black, so good to tell what happens on it). the 105 looked like it definately removed defects, i used it with a PC7424xp on an orange lc pad, but the compound simply dried incredibly quick and gave me a ton of dust to work with....
Click to expand...



I'd try working smaller areas and using less product *after* priming the pad properly. That priming does put a lot of product in the pad, but not so much of it ends up on the paint at any one time if you do this properly (yeah, there's a bit of a learning curve).



Don't overwork the M105; no spreading, not too big an area.



When buffing it off, a little spritz of #34 can help reduce the micromarring and make removal easier.



i plan to correct this stage by priming the pad often with a wet detailer spray, hopefully cut down on dust, and allow me to work the product easier to keep it moist, as well as wipe off the residue without producing marring afterwards.
Click to expand...



Gotta be careful doing that as replacing the M105's lubricating oils with the QD can lead to increased-cut/hazing issues. Except for cases where I'm trying to *really* get aggressive, I've generally gotten away from doing that in favor of properly priming the pad and cleaning/reloading the pad frequently.



but after using the 105 i always got a form of hazing and light scratches, is that normal? wasnt sure on the effects of m105 if it was too harsh or if the technique was wrong, didnt see much of that effect on tutorials for using m105.
Click to expand...



If inspecting with the SunGun in a dark room, then yeah..I see the hazing, but it oughta be nearly invisible under normal conditions (or even truly *invisible*).



Any such micromarring should be hologram-light, anything really nasty is probably from overworking the product and buffing off the residue incorrectly/too aggressively.



Still, while you work on your technique you oughta take some comfort in the idea that hey, it's an aggressive compound and such stuff simply cuts paint. It's the trade-off you put up with in exchange for the quick correction.



Or...the paint is just really soft relative to the M105.



and then i used m205 on a black lc pad to finish it out... and i THOUGHT i was getting everything... unfortunately i got my brinkmann xenon in the mail a day or two too late and saw a bit of hologramming in the sun....
Click to expand...





As long as you're using a DA as opposed to a rotary, any "holograms" are either micromarring from the M105 or oils from the M205...unless you're working on some *REALLY* soft paint or doing something weirdly wrong.



Most "hologramming" from M205 is just residual polishing oils. These can be *really* tough to get out/off of some paints, and I mean *REALLY*. IPA wipes don't always do it (at least not the first three or four) but TOL's PrepWash is pretty effective.





so was the gray pad too soft to work the 205 in with? or did i simply not work it long enough? i probably spent about 30-45 minutes per panel with the 205 to work it long enough to remove the marring from the 105, but it just looks like it wasnt enough cut to polish out the the 105.
Click to expand...



Yeah, I'm never surprised when the M205/finishing pad follow up isn't aggressive enough.



In some cases I've found I need a lot more cut from the M205 than I woulda expected. I've even had to resort to an orange pad for the first passes! Maybe not really *necessary* but it *is* efficient in that it moves things along. But having to get that aggressive oughta be unusual and IMO usually means you did something wrong with the M105.



I'm *really* happy with the Griot's orange pad (different from other orange pads) and the new LC tangerine pad oughta be similar. These pads put a lot of product (i.e., M205) against the surface while still being mild enough to finish out great.



You can always do some final burnishing/etc. after you get any issues resolved, but FWIW I'm still not convinced that M205 is the very best product for those final passes.
 
Leadfootluke said:
Would you rather follow the M105 with 80? Or is it too soon to know if there is more to learn with the M105 and M205 combo.
Click to expand...



No, I get generally better results with M205 than I do with #80.



I reserve #80 for situations that just seem to call for it, so unless you have a good reason to reach for that instead, or just like the diminishing abrasive tech better than the non-diminishing, then I'd stick with M205.



IMO there's generally *less*to learn with the M105/M205 approach if only because abrasive breakdown simply isn't a factor.



I'd work at getting the hang of M105/M205 and then consider options for the situations that really require something different, which probably won't be very numerous once you get the M105/M205 figured out ;)
 
It's also important to remember that even though Megs markets 205 as a finishing polish, it's *really* more of a medium polish that happens to finish down very well on a wide variety of paints, but not *all* paints. If you can't get 205 to finish down well, try following it up with a finer finishing polish.



I'd love to see Megs come out with a true finishing polish in the same vein of 105/205. Yeah, we'd be back to a three-step process, but the last step would be an optional max-gloss, high end ($) step.



205 finishes well, but it is *not* capable of a truly jeweled finish. At least, IMO/E ;)
 
SuperBee364 said:
..205 finishes well, but it is *not* capable of a truly jeweled finish...
Click to expand...



I think that, in most cases, any deficiencies are so minor that people have to see the (possible) improvement before they'll realize that it *can* get better.



This kinda gets into the "is there a problem if you don't *see* a problem?" territory..



Heh heh, I've been slammed for suggesting that *UC and M105 on orange LC pads* don't finish out well enough to leave things ready-to-wax :o
 
Accumulator said:
I think that, in most cases, any deficiencies are so minor that people have to see the (possible) improvement before they'll realize that it *can* get better.



This kinda gets into the "is there a problem if you don't *see* a problem?" territory..



Heh heh, I've been slammed for suggesting that *UC and M105 on orange LC pads* don't finish out well enough to leave things ready-to-wax :o
Click to expand...



Very true... As long as a finish has no visible marring and no holos, it could be considered "LSP ready", really. The acceptable gloss level always varies according to time available and dollars paid. :)



But for sure... paint can be defect-free (which is my definition of "LSP ready") without being maxed out on the gloss scale.
 
Accumulator said:




Most "hologramming" from M205 is just residual polishing oils. These can be *really* tough to get out/off of some paints, and I mean *REALLY*. IPA wipes don't always do it (at least not the first three or four) but TOL's PrepWash is pretty effective.
Click to expand...



I just took a look at TOL's website and didn't see PrepWash. Perhaps I missed it.

I'll be using 205 for the first time soon, so I want to be prepared for removing the oils. Any other products that I should take a look at? Would a warm water wash with Dawn work, or is this considered a no-no?
 
Accumulator said:
I'd try working smaller areas and using less product *after* priming the pad properly. That priming does put a lot of product in the pad, but not so much of it ends up on the paint at any one time if you do this properly (yeah, there's a bit of a learning curve).



Don't overwork the M105; no spreading, not too big an area.



When buffing it off, a little spritz of #34 can help reduce the micromarring and make removal easier.









Gotta be careful doing that as replacing the M105's lubricating oils with the QD can lead to increased-cut/hazing issues. Except for cases where I'm trying to *really* get aggressive, I've generally gotten away from doing that in favor of properly priming the pad and cleaning/reloading the pad frequently.







If inspecting with the SunGun in a dark room, then yeah..I see the hazing, but it oughta be nearly invisible under normal conditions (or even truly *invisible*).



Any such micromarring should be hologram-light, anything really nasty is probably from overworking the product and buffing off the residue incorrectly/too aggressively.



Still, while you work on your technique you oughta take some comfort in the idea that hey, it's an aggressive compound and such stuff simply cuts paint. It's the trade-off you put up with in exchange for the quick correction.



Or...the paint is just really soft relative to the M105.









As long as you're using a DA as opposed to a rotary, any "holograms" are either micromarring from the M105 or oils from the M205...unless you're working on some *REALLY* soft paint or doing something weirdly wrong.



Most "hologramming" from M205 is just residual polishing oils. These can be *really* tough to get out/off of some paints, and I mean *REALLY*. IPA wipes don't always do it (at least not the first three or four) but TOL's PrepWash is pretty effective.









Yeah, I'm never surprised when the M205/finishing pad follow up isn't aggressive enough.



In some cases I've found I need a lot more cut from the M205 than I woulda expected. I've even had to resort to an orange pad for the first passes! Maybe not really *necessary* but it *is* efficient in that it moves things along. But having to get that aggressive oughta be unusual and IMO usually means you did something wrong with the M105.



I'm *really* happy with the Griot's orange pad (different from other orange pads) and the new LC tangerine pad oughta be similar. These pads put a lot of product (i.e., M205) against the surface while still being mild enough to finish out great.



You can always do some final burnishing/etc. after you get any issues resolved, but FWIW I'm still not convinced that M205 is the very best product for those final passes.
Click to expand...



ill have to see a little more on priming the pad properly then the right application of applying 105, because it would flash really fast..... so you never spread 105 out before working it?



and no, the hazing and marring wasnt bad, it didnt look like anything was there until the sun was on it, and it only showed up after the 105 step after an ipa wipe to check for swirls and such.





i guess ill just go and work on doing it right for a bit with just the 105 to get a very holo free surface before moving on to the 205. hopefully i can do a better check with the proper lights now
 
cjbigcog said:
I just took a look at TOL's website and didn't see PrepWash. Perhaps I missed it.

I'll be using 205 for the first time soon, so I want to be prepared for removing the oils. Any other products that I should take a look at? Would a warm water wash with Dawn work, or is this considered a no-no?
Click to expand...



Silicone Remover
 
I had the same problem. It was a pain in the butt. I used #105 with a 7" LC pad. I had better luck with a 4" pad.
 
Turbocress said:
to remove 105 hazing/holos, does a gray pad or a white pad typically work better for an average clear coat (not corvette hard, and not honda soft)
Click to expand...



Whatever color the polishing pad is. There is no industry standard so leave out what color the pad is and focus on the cut.
 
Accumulator said:
IPA wipes don't always do it (at least not the first three or four) but TOL's PrepWash is pretty effective.
Click to expand...



TOL sells PrepWash but isn't it a product of HiTemp?
 
Accumulator said:
IPA wipes don't always do it (at least not the first three or four) but TOL's PrepWash is pretty effective.
Click to expand...



TOL sells PrepWash but isn't it a product of HiTemp?
 
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