Any products I should avoid on German Paints?

volunteer1816

volunteer1816

New member
I have a BMW scheduled for Saturday morning. Is there anything I should stay away from that isn't German paint friendly? My plan of attack is:

Wash
Clay
SR 2.5
SR 1
AIO
SG

Thanks!
VOL1816
:dunno
 
Which BMW? Some are made in SC and have American paint ... The Z4 and perhaps the X3 but I'm not sure on the X3 ... :dunno

Either way - your plan of attack looks pretty good to me. I'm not a fan of SG though so I would choose another sealant like UPP or Wolfgang. I just find SG hard to work with - it's personal thing.
 
I've been using those products you posted for my VW GTI.

If my paint is anything like yours, then you probably will not run into any problems.
 
Should work fine, but on german cars I prefer to work with the Menzerna line.
I'm not saying you have to use it, but it's just personal preference.
UPP also goes great over AIO, if you want an alternative to SG. Otherwise, just apply really thin, almost so thin you can't even see it. It'll still go great on the wheels.
 
From what I have learned todays automotive paint and finishes are only made by a couple or three worldwide producers with worldwide distribution channels. While the application and finishing process may result in varying quality levels, it's a myth buying so called special products for line specific vechicles. (E.G. BMW, Porsch, VW, Benz). You can care for and use the same products as you would on any auto and the rest of it is ALL marketing hype.
 
infoman1 said:
From what I have learned todays automotive paint and finishes are only made by a couple or three worldwide producers with worldwide distribution channels. While the application and finishing process may result in varying quality levels, it's a myth buying so called special products for line specific vechicles. (E.G. BMW, Porsch, VW, Benz). You can care for and use the same products as you would on any auto and the rest of it is ALL marketing hype.
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Hello Infoman1! With all due respect, just because only a handful of manufacturers produce the world's automotive paints and finishes, it doesn't follow that the paints and finishes are the same world wide. The differences between the paint products in various countries can be tremendous. The pollution, consumer protection and employee safety laws regarding VOC emissions etc. could be completely different.

Sure there is some hype involved but still I think there is some truth involved as well.

BTW, Welcome to City!
 
Well , there are specialized polishes for PPG's Ceramiclear found on new Mercedes-Benzes and surely others will follow with similar nano particle tachnology. ( I think BMW is in the process as we speak).

Menzerna's "PO twins" and their entire lineup overall are used on the OE level for Ceramiclear finishes on Mercedes and the Maybach.

Automotive International's Valugard also has a ceramic clear coat polish, Cerrious Polish.

IIRC, both brands utilize cerium oxide to cut and level the ceramic particle embedded clearcoat as opposed to traditional aluminum oxide.

All that said, "traditional" polishes can still be used. The Menzerna does produce quite a bit of "wow" though with the gloss it leaves behind I understand especially via rotary.
 
dalmore said:
Hello Infoman1! With all due respect, just because only a handful of manufacturers produce the world's automotive paints and finishes, it doesn't follow that the paints and finishes are the same world wide. The differences between the paint products in various countries can be tremendous. The pollution, consumer protection and employee safety laws regarding VOC emissions etc. could be completely different.

Sure there is some hype involved but still I think there is some truth involved as well.

BTW, Welcome to City!
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Thanks for the input and your points are well taken with respect to global and regional environmental laws. One would think, though the dealer or auto manual should best be able to describe how, and what to maintain a finish that is "special" or involves some new technology. With no disrespect far too often I have seen print ad's for example, made exclusively for BMW finishes. Ahhhh, to each his own but products like these don't exist. If they do truely do, please educate me on the brands and what makes and models they are specifically used for? I have inquired before with body/paint shops regarding this same issue. I am told, there is no magic formula.
 
Definately something to know with new products and technologies, especially when your assuming the liability when applying products to clients autos. Looks like more research is in order before treating any of these finishes with existing products.

Under the brand name, Speciality Performance Products PPG is launching a new polishing system for use with each of its three brands, Nexa Autocolor, PPG and MaxMeyer.


The SPP Polishing System offers bodyshops an improved polishing solution where just one easy to use product will meet all their polishing needs. The Dry-Use Polishing Compound can be used on all colours and all finishes, including CeramiClear, and has been specially formulated to remove scratches, dirt inclusions and swirl marks from refinish paint films.


Offering a significantly reduced chance of scratch return due to its water based formulation and lack of fillers, the SPP Polishing System will deliver excellent results first time, every time. The product is also silicone free and so can be used in the bodyshop area without risk of contamination.


To use the product simply prepare the area to be polished, condition the pads before use, polish using the Dry-Use Polishing Compound with the Foam Pad and then complete the job by applying the Compound with the Soft Sponge Pad. The last traces of the polish can be removed using the micro fibre Finishing Cloth.


For bodyshops looking to invest in this modern solution to bodyshop polishing needs, the SPP Polishing System Starter Kit (SPP1000) can be purchased from all Nexa Autocolor, PPG and MaxMeyer distributors. It contains everything a bodyshop will need to achieve a perfect finish: A litre of Dry-Use Polishing Compound, a Backing Plate, a Compound Foam Pad, a Soft Sponge Pad and a Finishing Cloth. A Lambswool Compound Pad is also available for polishing extremely hard paint films. Each item can also be purchased separately.


With just one product for the whole polishing process, the SPP Polishing System offers bodyshops a simple, effective solution to polishing as well as a reduction in their stock inventory.


The new SPP Polishing System will replace existing Nexa Autocolor, PPG and MaxMeyer polishing products.
http://www.ppg.com/nexaautocolor/news/connect_jul 04.pdf
 
What an excellent post! :bigups :bigups

It's not every day we learn of yet another paint polish system.

This sytem sounds like a sort of competitor to Menzerna and similar polishes.

That PDF link is defintely worth reading closely.

Where does one purhase this product? I'm assuming a paint and body shop supply store that carries PPG?
 
infoman1 said:
Thanks for the input and your points are well taken with respect to global and regional environmental laws. One would think, though the dealer or auto manual should best be able to describe how, and what to maintain a finish that is "special" or involves some new technology. With no disrespect far too often I have seen print ad's for example, made exclusively for BMW finishes. Ahhhh, to each his own but products like these don't exist. If they do truely do, please educate me on the brands and what makes and models they are specifically used for? I have inquired before with body/paint shops regarding this same issue. I am told, there is no magic formula.
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Actually products made specifically for different auto manufacturer's finishes do indeed exist - whether they work as advertised or not is another story. Visit Zymol.com and read about their line of waxes - they certianly sell products for specific makes of cars. And BMW dealers do market a line of car care products so if the dealer is your mark then yes, the BMW finish is different.

The next time you inquire at the paint and body shops on this issue, ask them why they use the paint and finish products they do. In short, I'll bet you get an answer that can be summed up "They work better." So even though they say it doesn't matter - they are all the same - when it comes time to choose, I suspect it does matter. And they will tell you there is a difference.

However, I agree that most of this "German Paints are different" is marketing hype for all purposes but that of a producing a show car finish. Then, I think the differences can surely come into play. I know that my Japanese painted tacoma and my American painted z3 react differently to the same products and procedures. I also know that when I show my wife the differences she looks at me like I have three heads. After all she only likes cars because they take her to cloths. :D
 
This has been a very informative thread. I guess it's coming down to a course in chemical engineering before we select products for our autos. I did run across this:

"The same care advice applies for the new nano-particle clearcoat celebrating its world premiere with Mercedes-Benz as for conventional paints. The experts at the Stuttgart-based vehicle manufacturer have the following tips for passenger car owners:

Looking after the paintwork begins at the car-wash. In order to avoid scratches caused by sand, dust or other miniscule particles on the surface of the body, a thorough pre-clean is recommended. Therefore, always spray the paintwork down with the high-pressure cleaner before driving into the automatic car-wash.

After the car has been washed, you should dry it off with a cloth in order to avoid water stains on the paintwork.

Remove insect remains, tar marks and bird droppings as quickly as possible, as they can damage the paintwork if allowed to dry. These kinds of marks and stains can usually be removed quickly and easily using a sponge and lots of water. When it comes to tar marks, you should use a special agent from the Mercedes-Benz vehicle care range. After cleaning the affected areas, polish them with a soft cloth.

Car owners should apply preserver to their vehicle’s paintwork twice a year. You can gauge whether this is necessary by carrying out a simple check: if the water no longer beads on the surface of the car body after it has been washed, then action should be taken. For older vehicles with dull paint, a gloss preserver such as the high-quality polish from the Mercedes care range, is the best option. In the case of newer cars, a gloss preserver should be sufficient. Like polish, this should be applied extremely thinly and in circular movements using cotton wool.

If the paint has lost its lustre, the experts recommend an intensive treatment, ideally using special polishing machines. First paint cleaner should be used to brighten up matt paint, then polish applied to restore a gleaming finish. Here again, gloss preserver ensures a lasting sheen.

Bumpers and exterior mirror casings painted in the vehicle body colour also require regular attention. Gloss preserver protects the paintwork in these areas as well and helps to maintain their gloss. Meguairs and 3M are the only 2 products that they recommend on this new paint so far when it comes to polishing the paint with a foam pad."

It appears the care concept is the same age old time tested method WASH, CLEAN(Pre-Cleaner), POLISH, and SEAL (gloss preserver,AKA Wax).
 
( In the US) What are the exact Mercedes branded car car products you refer to? AFAIK Meguiars makes some but that's still left to be seen whether or not they are just Mercedes labeled version of their Consumer or Profession line of products :dunno

Here in the US Audi branded car care products are made by Eagle One.
 
Bill D said:
( In the US) What are the exact Mercedes branded car car products you refer to? AFAIK Meguiars makes some but that's still left to be seen whether or not they are just Mercedes labeled version of their Consumer or Profession line of products :dunno


Here in the US Audi branded car care products are made by Eagle One.
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I don't know, I didn't author that informational snip, merely quoted it.
It's my opinion in the U.S. most products available OTC branded as clearcoat safe are acceptable otherwise it would become a huge product liability issue unless otherwise labeled. If there were significant changes in the way these newer clear-coat tops should be cared for, the polish industry would respond with new products targeted at those specialized technologies. It appears such is not the case. The newer finishes are actually harder and more resist to elements and scratching. I believe the care and maintainence concept is the same. I guess to be certain one could check with the OEM paint manufacturer and follow there recommendations, however as you have mentioned many of those OEM maintainence products are simply rebranded consumer or professional products available OTC. Only difference is anything for example with the Bentz or BMW, etc. name will result in a rape of the wallet.
 
infoman1 said:
If there were significant changes in the way these newer clear-coat tops should be cared for, the polish industry would respond with new products targeted at those specialized technologies. It appears such is not the case. The newer finishes are actually harder and more resist to elements and scratching.
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Well, as I mentioned, Auto. Int. and Menzerna have polishes marketed for ceramic particle clear coats as does the PPG product you mentioned. My understanding is cerium oxide is the distinct ingredient that sets these polishes apart from the "typical". I'd like to learn more about their formulation though. Only "real" advantages they claim/seem to have is that they have the capability of delivering results faster than the traditional on these ceramic particle clear coats.

The downside of these very hard clears is when they do "scratch", and many on these forums would consider such as the slightest micromarring in the clear coat, visible only under the most stringent artificial lighting and intense sunlight, they are a lot more difficult to polish out.
 
Menzerna CeramiClear Polish may very well be the product of choice. The difference I can see is the size of polishing particles in the formula and they claim theres is the smallest in the world. CeramicOxide vs Alumn Oxide. I can see some traditional polishes could possibly make these CeramiClear finishes worse or at best make you work a lot harder to remove and cut through surface defects on the hard top coat finish. I have never used the product, or worked on any of these finishes so my conjecture is strictly opinion. I do wan't to learn more about the technology and first class products like Menzerna engineered for these tasks. Anybody with real world experience I welcome your comments and suggestions.
 
I use Menzerna but I don't have regular access to a Ceramiclear finish regularly yet. It does quite well on hard clears and this just me polishing via Cyclo to get minute defects out. I practiced with it via rotary and it does a wondeful job quickly with great gloss.

I had read ( and can only rely on what I read) Auto. Int. had worked with PPG to develop a polish for this finish and PPG shared information about this kind of polish with Menzerna, that's how the two brands both wound up having polishes for this finish .
 
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