Am I Expecting Too Much From Detailing?

M

marks70

New member
About a year ago I brought my previous Jet Black 330Ci to a highly recommended detailer to remove swirls and scratches. He claimed to specialize in black cars. The guy spent 3 hours on my car, and after I got it back, it looked no better than when I brought it in. In fact, some areas looked worse, especially where he tried his wet sanding technique.



Fast forward to yesterday. My "new" Mystic Blue 2005 330Ci had a good amount of swirls/scratches on the right hand side where the car had been repainted. I found someone on this board to attempt to tackle the job. He came out, looked at the swirls/scratches, said he could get them out using his PC, and two hours later I was still looking at a car with swirls and scratches. As before, some areas looked even worse, having a whitish haze look to it, which I think is a result of a lot of fine scratches somehow introduced by his PC.



So here is my big question: Is it even possible to get your paint to a state that if I get up close to it that I should not see any swirls or scratches, or at least a vast majority of them? Do I keep picking the wrong people for the job, or am I just expecting too much?
 
I'm sure it's like any other job, you'll have people who aren't good at it, somewhat good at it, and people who do supurb jobs. I think you've yet to find the latter, obviously.
 
Where are you located? There are a number of detailers on this board that do top notch work. Unfortunately it seems you've not yet met one of them. Don't get too soured on detailers; like any profession some are definitely better than others.
 
swirls are very minor and should be able to be removed. Spiderwebbing and scratches might be too deep to be fully removed. make sure your expectations aren't unrealistic.
 
marks70 said:
About a year ago I brought my previous Jet Black 330Ci to a highly recommended detailer to remove swirls and scratches. He claimed to specialize in black cars. The guy spent 3 hours on my car, and after I got it back, it looked no better than when I brought it in. In fact, some areas looked worse, especially where he tried his wet sanding technique.



Fast forward to yesterday. My "new" Mystic Blue 2005 330Ci had a good amount of swirls/scratches on the right hand side where the car had been repainted. I found someone on this board to attempt to tackle the job. He came out, looked at the swirls/scratches, said he could get them out using his PC, and two hours later I was still looking at a car with swirls and scratches. As before, some areas looked even worse, having a whitish haze look to it, which I think is a result of a lot of fine scratches somehow introduced by his PC.



So here is my big question: Is it even possible to get your paint to a state that if I get up close to it that I should not see any swirls or scratches, or at least a vast majority of them? Do I keep picking the wrong people for the job, or am I just expecting too much?
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Here's my input: The 1st person spent 3 hours wet sanding and detailing the exterior of your black car?? The 2nd person(Autopian) spent 2 hours buffing out the blue car with a PC?? It really sounds like the people you're sending your cars to don't know what their doing and have no business touching them in the 1st place. I think you should find a detailer(one that's proficient with a rotary) and have them repair 1 section/panel on your car. Wash the car a few times and evaluate the quality. That will help you make your decision to go forward with that person or not. In my opinion(from experience) it's easier, quicker and better to remove swirls with a rotary. Especially if cause of the damage is rotary induced(because the swirls were caused from the body shop who painted it and mostly every body shop uses a rotary when polishing). :waxing: PC's most likely won't cut it. You might also want to take the car back to the body shop for their evaluation/explanation(not repair). In addition, it sounds like you have continuously battled swirls(both cars) and it might be also caused from improper washing techniques. Get the car fixed and keep it up properly.
 
Picus said:
Where are you located? There are a number of detailers on this board that do top notch work. Unfortunately it seems you've not yet met one of them. Don't get too soured on detailers; like any profession some are definitely better than others.
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agreed but id like a fine line drawn somewhere that distinguishes between a detailer and a swirl inducing car washer guy. theres a sign on this pos building down the road from me that says detailers. they are not detailers imo, they wouldnt have to live up to my standards to be a detailer but at least have common knowledge of techniques and tools/products. i see em all day every day using that big beach towel for drying, zymol cleaner wax is their go-to 100 dollar package. most i see them squirting e1 nanowax, what bs you take your car to get waxed and for 70-100 bucks you get nanowax? i think there are qd's that provide better protection. id be a rich man if i robbed people the way these so called "detailers" do. from the jobs they have sitting on thier lot i would make 100 and hour easily and they would probably look better than thiers do.



i think we need to rally the troups and put our coins in and educate the world on proper detailing techniques and procedures. lets get an ad campaign going to expose such lots for what they are so that at least the american/canadian or wherever you live consumer is properly schooled on what they are paying for. if we take one percent of the business these ratnests do it would be worth it



WHO'S WITH ME :spot :getdown :getdown :getdown :spot



ok how much is it to run a five minutes spot during the superbowl?
 
David Fermani said:
Here's my input: The 1st person spent 3 hours wet sanding and detailing the exterior of your black car?? The 2nd person(Autopian) spent 2 hours buffing out the blue car with a PC?? It really sounds like the people you're sending your cars to don't know what their doing and have no business touching them in the 1st place. I think you should find a detailer(one that's proficient with a rotary) and have them repair 1 section/panel on your car. Wash the car a few times and evaluate the quality. That will help you make your decision to go forward with that person or not. In my opinion(from experience) it's easier, quicker and better to remove swirls with a rotary. Especially if cause of the damage is rotary induced(because the swirls were caused from the body shop who painted it and mostly every body shop uses a rotary when polishing). :waxing: PC's most likely won't cut it. You might also want to take the car back to the body shop for their evaluation/explanation(not repair). In addition, it sounds like you have continuously battled swirls(both cars) and it might be also caused from improper washing techniques. Get the car fixed and keep it up properly.
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Well, I bought both cars used, so I was/am trying to fix problems caused by other people before I owned it. I was trying to do exactly what you suggested - get it fixed right and then keep it up myself. The problem is I can't get step 1 accomplished.



I can't get any good pictures with my digital camera, so I can't show you the issue. In trying to take pictures, I just found some significant fine scratching in the wheel well arch, which wasn't there before. :furious: Is there any possibility that he burned through a good portion of clear coat with a PC?



So I'm at a loss for what to do at this point. I've tried posting on this board looking for an Autopian to do some work on my car, and this is how I found the last guy. :(
 
I can see it happening on already thinning CC, maybe on a corner or body line using a cutting pad and something like SSR3/PG; but you would almost have to *try* to do it.
 
The whitish haze is probably just marring left by the polish he used with the pc, sounds like he needed another polishing step. In my opinion, you're never expecting too much from a professional detail- you're paying for it to be perfect. I would also be curious to know how much you paid for the two details- for a $70 detail, I may not expect all the swirls out, but for a $300 detail, I would.
 
2005 Corvette.



Before



100_00511.jpg




After



100_00611.jpg




As you can see its not perfect, but 99 percent better...



Sun



100_00581.jpg
 
I can't comment on your cars, as I haven't seen them. I can relay my experience over the past 15 years. I do my own detailing, not because I enjoy it, but because I have a major problem handing over $200-300 for a job that is not as good as what I do. I have over the past 8 years been to 3 different detailers that were recommended as being "the best in the area", all that charged me $250+ for a full interior/exterior detail, and each time walked away wondering why I paid all that money. The only reason I tried so many times, was there used to be a detailer in the area I live that I went to once, and saw a lot of his work, and I saw what a good detailer could do. He is unfortunately no longer in business as there was a limited number of people that would pay $300-450 for a detail in 1990 $.



As others have said you may need to keep looking, or alternatively do it yourself.
 
Honestly, I only have one question...



What is your expectation? Maybe the expectation and what is physically possible doesn't match.
 
Picus said:
I can see it happening on already thinning CC, maybe on a corner or body line using a cutting pad and something like SSR3/PG; but you would almost have to *try* to do it.
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Somewhere around here Acumulator has a post how he once burned through the clear on a car where admittedly he was getting a little aggressive, but felt at the time he was taking reasonable care. The PC is a pretty safe tool, but sometimes it's capable of more than a lot of folks give it credit.
 
velobard said:
Somewhere around here Acumulator has a post how he once burned through the clear on a car where admittedly he was getting a little aggressive, but felt at the time he was taking reasonable care. The PC is a pretty safe tool, but sometimes it's capable of more than a lot of folks give it credit.
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Yep. I oughta take a pic before I get it repainted. 4" Cyclo green pad, 3M 05933 (pretty mild stuff that I've used forever), cut through on '02 Mazda b/c that had never been aggressively polished before.



Another Autopian, using my PC, cut through the clear on a 190-series Benz at (IIRC) the '03 Autopia G-T-G in St. Louis. She was using #83 on a Meg's 7006 cutting pad.



It *can* happen.



As for the OP's situation, if I weren't confident that I could do it myself, I'd pay the airfair for a good pro with no hesitation. Money well-spent in my book.



But I'd just get some Hi-Temp Heavy Cut (or even Extreme Cut) and some 4" pads (or a Cyclo), and go for it.
 
theveed said:
Honestly, I only have one question...



What is your expectation? Maybe the expectation and what is physically possible doesn't match.
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Assuming the scratches are all in the clear coat, is it reasonable to expect 99% of them to be completely removed? Essentially, there is no evidence of any scratches or swirls?
 
marks70 said:
Assuming the scratches are all in the clear coat, is it reasonable to expect 99% of them to be completely removed? Essentially, there is no evidence of any scratches or swirls?
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It just depends how deep the marring is. Generally, you can only take off about one-third of a mil of clear (that's .0003") without precipitating clearcoat failure. That's not much.



The last time I polished my S8 I got it as close to marring-free as I can imagine a driver being (lots of rotary work, no overall marring in any light)...but there were a few spots where I stopped short of perfection because I didn't want to thin the clear too much. Note that Audi clear is nice and thick and the car had never been aggressively polished before. And I'm *not* too worried about being aggressive on cars like that. Still, IMO it's always better to err on the side of caution so you have to strike a balance between what you might want and what's really feasible.



But *generally* you should be able to get a finish better than what you're describing. What you described simply sounds like the results of somebody who doesn't know how to do aggressive correction. Better that they leave it imperfect than experiment on *your* car though. You just need to find somebody better or do it yourself (very carefully).
 
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