Always Use Cleaner/Clay on New Cars?

H

HLxDrummer

New member
Do you always clay and use a paint cleaner on cars that you've never detailed?



I have always clayed, but now I am looking into paint cleaners and considering this too. Problem is, most cars I do get done like once a year at most so I usually just see new cars (new to me). If I wash/clay/paint cleaner/polish/ipa/wax everything it will take me years to do one car.



To be honest I have never seen a visual difference before and after claying, but I figure it helps the sealant/wax durability. I'm assuming it will be the same for the paint cleaner?



Any tips/suggestions?



Thanks!
 
You use clay to remove bonded contaminants from the paint, to allow you to achieve maximum durability and slickness from the final product. It also can remove the stuff like sap, tar, etc that can eat away at the clear coat.



Typically, I find that if I clay a car properly and intend to polish, you wont necessarily need to use a paint cleaner.
 
That is true, but I think a good paint cleaner removes more dirt than clay does. Clay only scrapes the surface, but sure it's a lot faster..
 
Clay and paintwork cleansers/cleanres are two different things. A real basic, taught by Meguiars that is missed and missunderstood on so many forums as they just jump on the product bandwagon with no understanding of what they do or how they work.



The paintwork needs to be cleaned to ensure its optical clear (as much as possible) and to ensure that bonding or obsorbtion of a product can take place.



Put simply; claying removes above the surface contamination, chemical cleaners remove below the surface contamination.



Most polishes that have even a minor abrasive also clean the paintwork. There are various abrasive free paintwork cleaners such as Meguiars Deep Crystal Step 1 and Poorboys Pro Polish.



Geoff
 
steelwind101 said:
Clay and paintwork cleansers/cleanres are two different things. A real basic, taught by Meguiars that is missed and missunderstood on so many forums as they just jump on the product bandwagon with no understanding of what they do or how they work.



The paintwork needs to be cleaned to ensure its optical clear (as much as possible) and to ensure that bonding or obsorbtion of a product can take place.



Put simply; claying removes above the surface contamination, chemical cleaners remove below the surface contamination.



Most polishes that have even a minor abrasive also clean the paintwork. There are various abrasive free paintwork cleaners such as Meguiars Deep Crystal Step 1 and Poorboys Pro Polish.



Geoff
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Can you chime in, or anyone else, one Wolfgang's Paintwork Polish Enhancer? In looking at the description it looks as though it works like a paint cleaner. The suggested useage is before applying wax, but how would that fit into a full correction? Should this step be used after claying and before polishing, or after polishing and before protecting?
 
steelwind101 said:
Clay and paintwork cleansers/cleanres are two different things..
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Right :xyxthumbs



Another (different) approach that I like is chemical decontamination via systems like AutoInt's "ABC" or the FinishKare equivalent. It's not always unreasonable or redundant to use a decon. system, and clay, *and* a paintcleaner.
 
steelwind101 said:
Clay and paintwork cleansers/cleanres are two different things. A real basic, taught by Meguiars that is missed and missunderstood on so many forums as they just jump on the product bandwagon with no understanding of what they do or how they work.



The paintwork needs to be cleaned to ensure its optical clear (as much as possible) and to ensure that bonding or obsorbtion of a product can take place.



Put simply; claying removes above the surface contamination, chemical cleaners remove below the surface contamination.



Most polishes that have even a minor abrasive also clean the paintwork. There are various abrasive free paintwork cleaners such as Meguiars Deep Crystal Step 1 and Poorboys Pro Polish.



Geoff
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Makes perfect sense. This is what I have been reading when I researched the two.



So would you say that one is required before the other, or that they should both be used together or anything like that? If you could only use one what would it be (would it depend on the car?)?



Also, what do you think about that Meguiars Step 1? I can find it locally which is nice but I wasn't sure if it was trash or not. Any input on the Mother's equivalent?





I think if I'm going to buff/polish maybe I'll just clay but if I'm not doing any correction I'll clay/cleanse.





Thanks guys!
 
Well for me, clay has never removed anything a good paint cleaner has not.. A good cleaner removes both below and above contaminants..The above dirt is a lot easier to remove with just about anything than the deeper dirt is..Try using AIO or even Megs Color x and then use clay, will the clay do any good? Then try to clay and after that use a paint cleaner, which one will remove more dirt?? I am sure the pad you use at a clayed surface will show some dirt the clay didn't take care of but I have never seen clay taken off any dirt a good paint cleaner has not taken off.. So thanks for teaching me about clay , but I see little use for it really..
 
Mark77 said:
Well for me, clay has never removed anything a good paint cleaner has not.. A good cleaner removes both below and above contaminants..The above dirt is a lot easier to remove with just about anything than the deeper dirt is..Try using AIO or even Megs Color x and then use clay, will the clay do any good? Then try to clay and after that use a paint cleaner, which one will remove more dirt?? I am sure the pad you use at a clayed surface will show some dirt the clay didn't take care of but I have never seen clay taken off any dirt a good paint cleaner has not taken off.. So thanks for teaching me about clay , but I see little use for it really..
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Great post man! Kind bummed I just bought three bars yet I have no cleaner :(



Thanks for clearing that up though, I completely understand now!
 
Thanks, well it's not useless, but like I said I don't use it very often. And this is just my opinion...
 
GS4_Fiend said:
So you should use AIO before claying? I thought it was claying, then AIO.
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I think if you are going to do both, you should clay then AIO.



I'm pretty sure he was just saying that if you used AIO THEN clay, the clay wouldn't pick up much. Point being that the AIO will pick up almost anything that the clay will and more. Now if you decide to clay then AIO, it will take a little longer but you'll get the same results and won't get your towels as dirty since the clay is picking up some stuff first.



Hope this helps!
 
A new car is shipped by rail or truck. It always picks up some dust that has to be removed by clay because it is embedded in the paint. Rail dust can leed to rust. JMHO
 
Clay then AIO IMO.



I dont disagree with your comment Mark, but if you dont clay on a car that hasnt not had it for a few years and has seen 5K+ miles then your can end up marring the paintwork with the dirt/tar/bonded junk, esp. if you apply the cleaner with a machine as it gets trapped between the pad and the paintwork.



Looking back about 12-14 years ago i might have used Super Resin Polish to remove some tar from my bonnet/hood!!



Leadfootluke: I use the Wolfgang range alot. The Paintwork Enhancer works in two ways; It strips existing product from the paintwork. You can use it between paintwork correction details to freshen the paintwork and put a new product on top of.



It also contains oils and paintwork enhancers. These will hide minor defects but also bring out a certain level of shine and wetness. You may choose to use this after correcting the paintwork as it will remove polishing oils (leaving something of its own behind). It will also add warmth to paintwork.



I would use it after claying as a polish and paintwork cleanser if correction is not needed, and only as an option after correction if i wanted/needed the advantages mentioned above.



HLXDrummer, the Mothers is pretty Phase 1 is a similar product to Deep Crystal 1. I think if i were one stepping and the car was not bad, as Mark says just go for a really paintwork cleanse as your likely to remove alot of bonded stuff anyway.



But if you hit major bonded junk then your going to end up transfering it to the pad or applicator.



If you want best durability from a sealant such as Zaino, which bonds rather then a wax which lays on the surface then you really need a chemically clean paintwork surface.



Also, sealing/coating bonded fall out in to the car can increase damage done by the fall out.



Geoff
 
steelwind101 said:
Leadfootluke: I use the Wolfgang range alot. The Paintwork Enhancer works in two ways; It strips existing product from the paintwork. You can use it between paintwork correction details to freshen the paintwork and put a new product on top of.



It also contains oils and paintwork enhancers. These will hide minor defects but also bring out a certain level of shine and wetness. You may choose to use this after correcting the paintwork as it will remove polishing oils (leaving something of its own behind). It will also add warmth to paintwork.



I would use it after claying as a polish and paintwork cleanser if correction is not needed, and only as an option after correction if i wanted/needed the advantages mentioned above.



Geoff
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I was not sure of the abrasives in it, so I did not know if polishing with it after M205 would not only strip those oils but polish micro-marred paint. Otherwise in a correction I would start it, after the washing, with Clay, M105, M205, PW Enhancer, then the LSP. I was just wondering if that enhancer does anything to polish or just fill and clean. Thanks again for the reply.
 
Great thread guys, so much useful information :) I'll have to pick up a cleaner soon.



What kind of applicator/pad do you use to apply a cleaner? I have orange and white CCS pads for my G110 then I have stupid little hand applicators.







Edit: Also, if I plan to polish the paint, should I still use a cleaner? I would imagine the polish would take off anything that the cleaner would unless the cleaner goes beyond the surface layers of the paint..
 
GS4_Fiend said:
KAIO is strong enough cleaner or should I go for a better one ?
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I might want something more potent, but that's just me.



I think we sometimes overkill this issue, and I'm guilt as well with my decon + clay + polishing of in-the-wrapper cars. But rust-blooms on silver/white are simply awful and the overkill has solved the problem better than anything else I've tried.



But you might not need to do that at all. Not like nobody's car ever looked decent before there were such approaches.

HLxDrummer said:
What kind of applicator/pad do you use to apply a cleaner? I have orange and white CCS pads for my G110 then I have stupid little hand applicators...
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The only orange pad I'd use for this is the (mild) Griot's one. So use your white pad.



Edit: Also, if I plan to polish the paint, should I still use a cleaner? I would imagine the polish would take off anything that the cleaner would unless the cleaner goes beyond the surface layers of the paint..
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There's *such* an overlap with cleaners and polishes that it's hard to say. Some products have really potent chemical cleaners and others rely on abrasion. But if you abrade away the contaminated paint you'll solve any such problem anyhow IMO.



Sorry, I know that sounds all mealy-mouthed, but unless we're talking specific issues, on specific paint, and specific product/processes for dealing with 'em, it's hard to go from being too general to getting really specific.
 
Accumulator said:


I might want something more potent, but that's just me.



I think we sometimes overkill this issue, and I'm guilt as well with my decon + clay + polishing of in-the-wrapper cars. But rust-blooms on silver/white are simply awful and the overkill has solved the problem better than anything else I've tried.



But you might not need to do that at all. Not like nobody's car ever looked decent before there were such approaches.





The only orange pad I'd use for this is the (mild) Griot's one. So use your white pad.







There's *such* an overlap with cleaners and polishes that it's hard to say. Some products have really potent chemical cleaners and others rely on abrasion. But if you abrade away the contaminated paint you'll solve any such problem anyhow IMO.



Sorry, I know that sounds all mealy-mouthed, but unless we're talking specific issues, on specific paint, and specific product/processes for dealing with 'em, it's hard to go from being too general to getting really specific.
Click to expand...





Completely understand :) Thanks for your help!
 
GS4_Fiend said:
KAIO is strong enough cleaner or should I go for a better one ?
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Unless you have scratch or swirl issues, the KAIO should do really well for you.



As for to clay or not to clay, I have gone over cars with a paint cleaner before and had is still fail the "plastic bag test." Spray some QD on the surface and put your hand in a plastic bag and rub it over the surface, you will feel any bonded contaminates very easily.
 
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