Alternatives to HD-Cleanse?
- Thread starter velobard
- Start date
I would suggest Victoria Wax,Lite cleanse.I prefer the appearence to Zymol HD cleanse,it contains a small amount of carnauba,and i find it easier to work with than both Zymol HD cleanse,and SwissVax cleaner fluid.
I am not knocking the other products,as i have used them both for many years,but for me the VW lite cleanse is my number one choice for preparing paint for any carnauba wax,it doesn't contain any Kapolite,which is in the HD cleanse,so you won't get potential problems with dusting.
I am not knocking the other products,as i have used them both for many years,but for me the VW lite cleanse is my number one choice for preparing paint for any carnauba wax,it doesn't contain any Kapolite,which is in the HD cleanse,so you won't get potential problems with dusting.
tom p.
Active member
Danase said:
yeah, I'll 2nd that. I think the P21S product is easier to use.
FWIW, I can't see what would be wrong with using Klasse AIO or even Jeff's WS PRIME. You may ultimately find superior durability with either of these; Zymol is a very short-lived product.
tom p. said:
Actually, that's related to another question I have; what sort of products are compatible for use as a base layer under Zymol. I realize it's supposed to be used over squeaky clean paint, but I can see the advantages to having a durable product underneath it. The only AIO product I have on my shelf is FK1 215. I also have 2180. It may come down to just experiementing to find out of they'll work.
imported_Dave KG
New member
Tips for using the HD-Cleanse: well, I work on small areas at a time, about 1' square, apply a small amount using a foam applicator, spread around then work in for three or four passes with firm pressure in straight lines. Leave for a minute, then remove residue. Dont let it try, otherwise its a PITA to remove.
tom p.
Active member
Velo, I hate to have you go out and buy a bunch of stuff you don't really need. I think there are many products that would clean/prep the surface adequately. The HD-Cleanse is just the product Zymol markets. There's nothing magical about it, it's a decent product that can be tough to remove, as noted.
#215 as a base? Probably. I'd sure give it a try to see if it yields satisfactory results.
Another: Jeff's WS Prime w/carnauba
(there are many possibilities!!)
#215 as a base? Probably. I'd sure give it a try to see if it yields satisfactory results.
Another: Jeff's WS Prime w/carnauba
(there are many possibilities!!)HD Cleanse is not a required step before using Zymol waxes. I have been an avid user of EGZymols, and you can accomplish the required cleaning step with any proven paint cleaner. I was a veteren of the otc cleaners such as Mothers, Megs and Gliptone.
Lately I have been very pleased with Sonus' Paintwork Cleanser, as it provides a very safe clearcoat cleaning b4 the serious polish, while adding just a hint of cutting power (although it is termed as a non abrasive polish). That's not to say that HD Cleanse isn't useful. Quite the opposite, I also found that HD Cleanse works well and also is versatile with the pc. I would recommend HD Cleanse as an addition to your polish prep team, but you can also compare and use comparable paint cleaners as an alternative.
Lately I have been very pleased with Sonus' Paintwork Cleanser, as it provides a very safe clearcoat cleaning b4 the serious polish, while adding just a hint of cutting power (although it is termed as a non abrasive polish). That's not to say that HD Cleanse isn't useful. Quite the opposite, I also found that HD Cleanse works well and also is versatile with the pc. I would recommend HD Cleanse as an addition to your polish prep team, but you can also compare and use comparable paint cleaners as an alternative.
Accumulator
Well-known member
tom p. said:
Yeah, I agree. Way back in the day, Irene at TOL and I spent a while discussing nitty-gritty details of HD Cleanse vs. Pinnacle's PCL. I ended up going with the PCL but it sounded like she considered the two products to be virtually identical, functionally-speaking. Different ingredients (e.g., clay vs. talc, IIRC) doing the same kinds of work.
Thanks lbls1 and Accumulator. I don't picture anything being "magic" about HD-Cleanse, which is why I'm considering alternatives when I run out. What I have was included in a purchase from another member here, but Zymol's price of $24 for 8.5 oz is a little steep for the job that it does. Quite honestly, I've considered that I could probably even get away with my using my old bottle of Megs DC Paint Cleaner, but I wondered what other products are tried and true by other members here. I now have Zymol Z3 and Concours, (not to mention everything else I've collected!) so I expect to have some fun experimenting this summer. :buffing:
As it is, I just ordered more 2180 and some other FK1 stuff, so I'll have a fresh protective layer on my recent paint job for the rest of the winter.
As it is, I just ordered more 2180 and some other FK1 stuff, so I'll have a fresh protective layer on my recent paint job for the rest of the winter.
Mikeyc
TheDetailingHandBook.com
As a lot of other people have noted there are a lot of companies that make a paint cleaner like Sonus, Pinnacle, P21S, Poorboy's, and many others. There's nothing really special about Zymol HD-Cleanse, but it does do a nice job IMO.
This being said though, I would stay away from using "all-in-one" type products like Klasse AIO, Duragloss PBA, Poorboy's PwC or PwS, Optimum Poli-Seal, etc. in conjunction with your Zymol. All of these products not only clean/polish the paint but they also leave behind a layer of protection. In some cases it's wax and in others it's a sealant. The remaining layer of protection left by the AIO product will color the results you get with your Zymol.
I've experimented in the past with putting a sealant under my Zymol and IMO it detracted from the results. Many of the qualities which set Zymol apart from other waxes like crispness, depth, and color reproduction of reflections were muted if not lost with the sealant underneath IMO.
A lot of people are critical of the durability of wax, but chances are if you're posting to this board you won't mind re-applying wax every 4-6 weeks. Do that and you'll have no problem with protection.
This being said though, I would stay away from using "all-in-one" type products like Klasse AIO, Duragloss PBA, Poorboy's PwC or PwS, Optimum Poli-Seal, etc. in conjunction with your Zymol. All of these products not only clean/polish the paint but they also leave behind a layer of protection. In some cases it's wax and in others it's a sealant. The remaining layer of protection left by the AIO product will color the results you get with your Zymol.
I've experimented in the past with putting a sealant under my Zymol and IMO it detracted from the results. Many of the qualities which set Zymol apart from other waxes like crispness, depth, and color reproduction of reflections were muted if not lost with the sealant underneath IMO.
A lot of people are critical of the durability of wax, but chances are if you're posting to this board you won't mind re-applying wax every 4-6 weeks. Do that and you'll have no problem with protection.
Mikeyc said:
I appreciate this information. Guess I'll spend the summer enjoying my beauty waxes all by themselves.
Of course I don't. I'm anxious to see how it looks to have 2 or 3 coats of Zymol on my car.
One more question. Will HD-Cleanse or the other cleaners be sufficient to remove the sealant I'm using for winter protection?
OK, make that two more questions. What about spray waxes as a topper? I have AW and I just ordered FX-100 on my FK1 order this morning. Even at a discount rate of a little over $20 at a local sale, I'm not sure how much of an advantage the Zymol spray wax offers over these other products.
Mikeyc
TheDetailingHandBook.com
velobard said:
What I like to do is after polishing the car I'll put on one coat. Then, the next week I'll wash the car and put on a second coat. Then, I'll go one coat per month from then on.
velobard said:
The paint cleaners will remove the sealant you have on the car already.
velobard said:
I've used Zymol Field Glaze in the past and have not been a big fan. However, the bottle I bought I believe had been sitting around for quite some time and been kept in a very hot display case. So, it probably wasn't the best bottle to use to judge the product. I'll probably buy another one someday to try again.
One thing to keep in mind is if you use a QD with wax or sealant in it then you encounter the same problem as you would when using an AIO product. Only this time the wax/sealant is on top of your Zymol instead of below it. Again, though you'll color the way your car looks by putting a booster on top of it.
My suggestion is . . . after you apply the Zymol enjoy the look for a few weeks. Then put on another coat and then start using a booster after that. If you do use a booster try to use one that contains a carnauba wax and not a sealant. This should minimize the difference you notice in the appearance. Personally, I'm using Pinnacle Crystal Mist on my car. However, it's not really any cheaper than Zymol Field Glaze. It's just easier for me to get as I can buy it where I buy most of my other detailing supplies. You might also want to consider Poorboy's QW+. Poorboy's IMO makes some of the best QDs available, but I've never tried one of their QDs that contains a wax.
The QD has to be "very" mild. I also used field glaze in the past, with mixed results. At that time I felt that field glaze was a bit on the greasy side.
I like to use qds at every third coat during the beginning stages. My main purpose with qd's is to provide good pick-me-ups by cutting occasional hazing that sometimes can occur from the car sitting for awhile (yes even garaged and covered). If the qd is mild IMO it won't compromise the zymol quality. If you use a heavy textured qd that resembles a spray wax type, then I'd have to say that in the long run you may compromise your progress.
The main emphasis is to establish the zymol finish without any help from lsps. What you could do to help lubricate and isolate the polish phase from the wax phase is to do a clean up of the remaining polish residue with a lightweight non-wax spritz. It helps make the surface more even and slick but stops short of providing a true seal or render like a typical sealant or (I really hate the generic word of "glaze", but anyway) glaze product. To that end, one of my personal favorites to use as a neutral barrier b4 the first coat of EGZ is Sonus' Acrylic Glanz. It tones up the paint nicely, but its weak power prevents it from really sealing the surface. Investigate some other similar products (perhaps Jeff Werkstat's...poor spelling) products if you have time.
The main thing (even without the little tricks) is to bond the prepped surface with the wax as closely as possible.
I like to use qds at every third coat during the beginning stages. My main purpose with qd's is to provide good pick-me-ups by cutting occasional hazing that sometimes can occur from the car sitting for awhile (yes even garaged and covered). If the qd is mild IMO it won't compromise the zymol quality. If you use a heavy textured qd that resembles a spray wax type, then I'd have to say that in the long run you may compromise your progress.
The main emphasis is to establish the zymol finish without any help from lsps. What you could do to help lubricate and isolate the polish phase from the wax phase is to do a clean up of the remaining polish residue with a lightweight non-wax spritz. It helps make the surface more even and slick but stops short of providing a true seal or render like a typical sealant or (I really hate the generic word of "glaze", but anyway) glaze product. To that end, one of my personal favorites to use as a neutral barrier b4 the first coat of EGZ is Sonus' Acrylic Glanz. It tones up the paint nicely, but its weak power prevents it from really sealing the surface. Investigate some other similar products (perhaps Jeff Werkstat's...poor spelling) products if you have time.
The main thing (even without the little tricks) is to bond the prepped surface with the wax as closely as possible.
I am new at this forum and have been reading a lot and have a question that probably can be answer in this thread. apologies if it was answer in the past.
i also use Zymol products but I am about to get a porter cable and was wondering if HD Cleanse and the Zymol waxes can be used with a machine buffer? Thanks
i also use Zymol products but I am about to get a porter cable and was wondering if HD Cleanse and the Zymol waxes can be used with a machine buffer? Thanks
lbls1 said:
The mildest QD that comes to mind if #34. Any other ideas? My 425 is great but it definitely has it's own "strong personality". Perhaps a QD made from ONR would work, but you might need to dilute it a little more to keep it from having enough cleaning effect to removing too much of the wax.
In your mind, how are you distinguishing between QDs that "resemble a spray wax" vs actual spray waxes? And what do you mean by a "textured" QD?
Hmmm, so you're using SAG between HD-Cleanse and the EG wax? Since I don't know much about AG, what other sort of products can you think of that would fit in that category? One thing I'm going to experiment with is 2180 as a base under Zymol to help boost the protection underthe beauty wax.
I haven't tried the JW line and really don't know much about it. Any recommendations? (Just what I need, yet another product line on my shelf. LOL)
Here you lost me, I'm not sure exactly what you mean. I will say I've wondered if Duragloss 601 Polish Bonding Agent would offer any benefit here. I haven't tried it but it looks interesting. I've heard it's really supposed to boost the durability of the Duragloss waxes.
I'm also still wondering about Polycharger. I know it isn't even out officially, but I'm wondering what it would do to affect the appearance of Zymol and hopefully extend the life of the wax.
CA4S said:
Welcome. I'm a Zymol noob, but I'll give it a shot. Which Zymol waxes do you use? I can picture the cheap Zymol Cleaner wax being applied by PC, but it wouldn't work for any of the ones meant to be applied by hand.
I've only used HD-Cleanse once and I suppose MAYBE it can be done by PC,but given it's nature that you want to get it back off the paint so quickly I really don't see an advantage to machine application. My PC is going to stay on the shelf when I'm using my Zymol products. It would be great in the prep stages for polishing, but that's about it in this situation, IMHO.