Alternative for "detail clay"

Hugh - the combined packaging is more than an increase in perceived value - folks package the clay with a lube because it's what the consumer needs to do the job right. And, in our case we include wax too since claying will remove any wax on the paint surface.



I know many here don't appreciate it, but keep in mind our kit is made for the average consumer, not the dedicated enthusiast detailer. That person NEEDS the stuff in the package to do the job right. Other companies have tried selling clay by itself at retail. In between theft of a small item, and folks who returned it seeking their money back because it wasn't used properly, the decision was made to force folks to buy what they need.



We're really not greedy folks trying to force products off on to consumers. We're simply trying to make sure they get the tools the need to do the job right.
 
True that. Plus, if it was feasable to drop the price by a dollar or two and still get 80% of the profits, why not, as the added sales would get you more cashola.



Hugh, you may not understand that they actually have to make the clay too. And make the lube. They don't just scoop it out of the ground.



Since it's a polymer, more than likey there is first he oil refiing process that it get's whatever size chain it needs from. Then there is shipping to the plastic intermediate plant. The finished product from this plant is the starting point at the next plant. That plant, getting intermediates from many different plants, usually just combines them. Some heating might be required for reaction. There's QC all along the line. Environmental paperwork (by biz) and marketing and some lawyers sprinkled about. Not to mention office space and staff.



Sure, maybe, but unlikely, you could get clay made overseas and shipped to Kansas for 50 cents a clab. But, really, if you could, sell it for $7 with QD and a MF and take over the market TW style.



There is probably a reason TW has not gotten into the clay biz. Probably not profitable at their pricepoint.



It kind of irritates me when people think that some companies who are clearly in heavy competition are jacking up prices as if they aren't. Could your work just start charging 10x more than they should? Nope, you'd go out of business. Same with clay.



For reference, I'm a chemical engineer working in as an environmental regulatory agent (water pollution) for a southern municipality.
 
~One man’s opinion / observations ~



�On a side note about clay lasting a year, with my slippery fingers one clay bar won't last one car. “

I’m glad I’m not the only one who drops clay, here’s what I do-



To avoid wasting detailer’s clay because you probably will drop it, is to place a towel on the ground under the area you're claying so the clay will fall onto the towel without picking up gravel etc.



Experience unshared; is knowledge wasted…/



justadumbarchitect *so I question everything*
 
Forrest is exactly right. The price of clay is driven by the mass consumer market. If the clay product does not come in a nice looking box with complete instructions, it won't move. Less than 10% of the mass consumer market is familiar with detailing clay. As volume increases, prices will fall.



Regarding the price, you'd be shocked at how slim the margin really is. The raw clay pricing is held high my the patent holders... because they can! Plus, the kits are heavy. By the time you have paid for freight-in, assembly, materials and freight-out, you've eaten up a lot of the $10 price of a basic kit.



Mothers is spot on adding their cleaner wax in their kit to provide the average consumer what they need.
 
Postwood said:
True that. Plus, if it was feasable to drop the price by a dollar or two and still get 80% of the profits, why not, as the added sales would get you more cashola.



Hugh, you may not understand that they actually have to make the clay too. And make the lube. They don't just scoop it out of the ground.



Since it's a polymer, more than likey there is first he oil refiing process that it get's whatever size chain it needs from. Then there is shipping to the plastic intermediate plant. The finished product from this plant is the starting point at the next plant. That plant, getting intermediates from many different plants, usually just combines them. Some heating might be required for reaction. There's QC all along the line. Environmental paperwork (by biz) and marketing and some lawyers sprinkled about. Not to mention office space and staff.



Sure, maybe, but unlikely, you could get clay made overseas and shipped to Kansas for 50 cents a clab. But, really, if you could, sell it for $7 with QD and a MF and take over the market TW style.



There is probably a reason TW has not gotten into the clay biz. Probably not profitable at their pricepoint.



It kind of irritates me when people think that some companies who are clearly in heavy competition are jacking up prices as if they aren't. Could your work just start charging 10x more than they should? Nope, you'd go out of business. Same with clay.



For reference, I'm a chemical engineer working in as an environmental regulatory agent (water pollution) for a southern municipality.
Click to expand...



I'm quite aware the clay is in part made of synthetic polymers. The majority of the ingredients are mined though. That's a fairly simple thing to understand but thanks for the insult:) . My figuring attempted to take into account ball-park per tonne raw materials pricing (world polymer pricing and graded bulk mineral pricing), per tonne production costs, and per tonne shipping. Without knowing the volume capabilites and capital costs of the plant the figure I used was a major guestimation but even if it is double it doesn't drastically affect the overall price. I'm talking about container loads (18 ton quanties) of material shipped here too. I really don't don't know how much clay is sold domestically but 18 ton doesn't seem like an extreme amount but I could be way off here too.



My point was show that the cost of the clay is a minor portion of the total cost of bringing it to market. The final asking price is generally dictated by what the market will bear and often times has no correlation to profit margins.



Since you brought it up but I think it's irrelevant, I have a business degree with experience managing both production plants and transportation businesses.
 
DavidB said:
Forrest is exactly right. The price of clay is driven by the mass consumer market. If the clay product does not come in a nice looking box with complete instructions, it won't move. Less than 10% of the mass consumer market is familiar with detailing clay. As volume increases, prices will fall.
Click to expand...



That was exactly my point, the term "value added packaging" means exactly what you describe.



DavidB said:
Regarding the price, you'd be shocked at how slim the margin really is. The raw clay pricing is held high my the patent holders... because they can! Plus, the kits are heavy. By the time you have paid for freight-in, assembly, materials and freight-out, you've eaten up a lot of the $10 price of a basic kit..
Click to expand...





Again, that was exactly my point as well, David Miller being the patent holder has invested millions to ensure he remains the patent holder, the pricing of clay has his costs plus a healthy profit built in to it as well.



DavidB said:
Mothers is spot on adding their cleaner wax in their kit to provide the average consumer what they need.
Click to expand...



I agree with this as well. The average consumer hasn't a clue what clay is or how to use it. This is the only logically way to reduce the potential risks of successfull actions filed against them should the use of their product cause damages. Offering both a proper lubricant and detailed instructions in part proves due diligence to reduce these damages. Aside from sending out Forrest personally to apply the product there's not much else that can be done.
 
Sorry if I gave the impression that I was passing judgement on you, Hugh. I was just trying to present my point of view, which is that manufacturing is difficult and costly. I run into people who think that manufacturing is all just "scooping it out of the earth".
 
Postwood said:
Sorry if I gave the impression that I was passing judgement on you, Hugh. I was just trying to present my point of view, which is that manufacturing is difficult and costly. I run into people who think that manufacturing is all just "scooping it out of the earth".
Click to expand...



No real offence taken my remark was mostly in jest, I appreciate your input.
 
forrest said:
Hugh - the combined packaging is more than an increase in perceived value - folks package the clay with a lube because it's what the consumer needs to do the job right. And, in our case we include wax too since claying will remove any wax on the paint surface.



I know many here don't appreciate it, but keep in mind our kit is made for the average consumer, not the dedicated enthusiast detailer. That person NEEDS the stuff in the package to do the job right. Other companies have tried selling clay by itself at retail. In between theft of a small item, and folks who returned it seeking their money back because it wasn't used properly, the decision was made to force folks to buy what they need.



We're really not greedy folks trying to force products off on to consumers. We're simply trying to make sure they get the tools the need to do the job right.
Click to expand...



Claying doesn't remove all WAX that is on a car. Also, my guess is that it is mostly enthusiasts who clay their cars regularly, and most of those individuals will opt for a better product than Mother's.
 
Interesting stuff, Hugh.



I'm curious to find out where the "detail clay" we normally used is created and where the poster clay is created. Surely, there is not one plant out there specifically charged with the creation of detail clay, which is in all honesty, a niche product. It'd be very interesting to see if the facility exists that fabricates both types and the difference in process.



...enjoying the thread. :xyxthumbs
 
The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price!



When one spends tens of thousands on a new vehicle, why skimp on the very things that will keep the vehicle looking good?



I get the business from some friends of mine because I am a clean car fanatic. I bought my 1997 F-150 in September of 1996 and it still looks brand new because I use the quality materials to preserve the finish. Some of them, on the other hand, are driving 2003's and 2004's that are already scratched, dented, beaten and look like crap!
 
Hugh my hat goes off to you. This business of detailing is all about experimenting. I do so many unconventional things they would blow most peoples minds. I am always thinking of new ways to better myself, my products and my service. Great detective work. You just may be on to something. Think about this what made that one person take a piece of clay and rub it on a paint surface?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top