All these process choices.. are they documented?

:bounce



I can not wait to see the "DETAILING MAZE" or "LABRYNTH" that you guys will be doing.



If you complete it the flow chart, we might as well have it also programmed so you can just put your detailing inputs and the program will automatically generate a flow-chart based on the inputs that the user provided.



What do you think ;)
 
Wow, zenhog! You've really been busy this evening! I'm impressed with your work.



One tiny little editorial comment: There need to be more links -- e.g., from "clay" down to the next step, so they don't end up as "dead ends."



You haven't yet added-in any decision-tree that would lead people thru the sealant vs. wax decision, or the "do I need to glaze" decision? Can that be done with Visio? or do you need more input about what the factors are?



I think this is coming along very nicely! Adding onto jaim's comment, my "best world" idea would be: Configuring it so that if folks didn't know how to answer a question, they could click a hyperlink to David's articles, Hall of Fame threads, other threads outside Autopia, etc. But that's something we'll need to address with David if we can agree on the basic design and decision points.
 
Hmm, while I applaud the effort put into this flowchart stuff I see a problem with the attached one above. Well, not really a problem, but something that may be unnecessary: I'm not sure if you really need to prescribe two separate steps to remove oxidation and swirls. Often you can get rid of one while doing the other. While a product like MOR will take off oxidation, so will other products, and MOR will probably get rid of some swirls while it's at it. It's all just abrasive action AFAIK. This concept may be a bit hard to convey in a flowchart though...
 
Guys,



I own a web hosting compant and have several software programmers as my staff.



We can create and online detailing guide wherein it will self generate a detailing work flow based on the user input.



We should first have list of products that is appropriate for certain detailing task so we just do not recommend polishing but polish using example Menzerna Final Polish or Megs DACP. I think we have to have certain product combos for the user to use that will be categorized in some manner. Complicated but i think its doable. What I have in mind for example is a category for Water Based Polish the other is Petro Distillate Based product or whatever.



I think the first step is for people to post their product combination.



This is a long task but if we are commited to come-up wioth something unique and technologically advance WE CAN DO IT!!!
 
jaim, that's a very generous offer! :bow But at the moment, I think I'd argue for creating something that tells people about the process, rather than getting into the various products that can achieve the results. (See my sig line.) This may become really, really cool, if it materializes.
 
Lynn and all,



Thanks for the input so far - I'll add a connector so the Clay step connects to the oxidation consideration, I missed that one.



Just tell me what steps to add and where, and I'll put them in. We can then decide on links to go in spots in the document and they can be added too.



I need to point out that I'm a total rookie at this level of detailing so I'm only able to put down what is given to me.



This process (it's actually a "decision tree") does not have to be an "either or" kind of thing, there are situations where multiple branches that can be added, for example one branch may cover swirls and oxidation in one step and another branch may have separate steps for them, depending on the route someone may choose. This brings out the power of the graphic - it shows that there are options and combinations of options. And in the process of creating this we'll get to see the many variations that you pros use in your own processes.





Regarding jaim's note - I think it would be a great thing to have as well. Maybe when we get the process fully documented it may help him with his project.



Bring on the input boys - I've got my visio program revved to the red line and ready to go.



Craig
 
By the time we finish this detailing work flow or whatever we should call it, I think we can already award ourselves a Doctorate (PHD) Degree in Auto Detailing :D



Just keep those ideas coming, I will try to get as much information or structure as I can get and try to make something out of it and have it posted on a domain web site that can somehow be tested by us.



I hope this will not be a nightmare for us to complete :scared
 
Great Googly Moogly !

zenhog, Great work ! :xyxthumbs

I think I'd argue for creating something that tells people about the process, rather than getting into the various products that can achieve the results.
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Yeah, I was trying to do that with the process alone with my flowchart. This way it would be a good baseline. The thing is, does the process differ with different products ? I'm pretty happy with Zaino. Haven't used AIO, SG, etc., so I'm wondering how different the flow would look. Maybe small differences.

I need to point out that I'm a total rookie at this level of detailing so I'm only able to put down what is given to me.
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you won't be for long (evil laugh and rubbing of hands) :p

Doctorate (PHD) Degree in Auto Detailing
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I'd like a PHD.....will this be on the test ?

I hope this will not be a nightmare for us to complete
Click to expand...

I think you already know that answer
 
Zenhog- Glad to hear someone's stepped up to do this. Most of the upper portion of the tree will be the same regardless of what the lower branches do (e.g., wax vs, sealant). This is sorta LONG, even for me...



Lynn's ideas about return paths (or whatever you'd call them) from the processes you branch to WOULD make it easier to follow.

Also, I like her suggestion to stick to general processes as opposed to SPECIFIC (as in brand-name) products, though there might be exceptions at the lower branches (Z= very reflective look, BF/PUPP= carnauba like, KSG= great durability). I DON'T see a way to keep it totally brand-name-free at those levels due to the decisions involved in choosing which products to use and the accompanying steps that do/don't work with certain products (e.g., glazes <> Zaino).



I also like 4DSC's idea to keep related work as integrated as possible. Like the oxidation process ~= the scratch process. In both cases you'd use an abrasive, so I'd say test " oxidation and/or moderate-severe scratches?", yes- [COMPOUNDING process], no- [proceed to next]



Since I DIDN'T end up working on this, perhaps I can contribute by making a few suggestions.



One ought clay a new car. Not sure EXACTLY where you'd want to insert this, it's another branch-to-clay-process for IF the car is NEW. If NOT, then proceed to your current "smooth as glass?" test.



I'd say AFTER the [DRY process] test for "is Car NEW?", yes-branch to [CLAY process], no- proceed to test for "is paint smooth as glass?, yes-[proceed to next], no- branch to [CLAY process].



ALSO coming to mind (I wonder how well I'm verbalizing THIS! Try charting it maybe...):



An off-the-cuff $0.02 about the wax/sealant...test for what LOOK is desired: "CARNAUBA LIKE" or "SYNTHETIC LOOK", CARNAUBA LIKE- test for "want to use WAX or SEALANT", WAX- test for "DURABILITY or LOOKS, DURABILITY- [Collinite], LOOKS- [Pinnacle, P21S], SYNTHETIC LOOK- TEST for VERY REFLECTIVE [Zaino] or VERY DURABLE [KSG].



The glazing stuff would be embedded in the WAX path, before the test for which wax. Test for "are swirls still visible?", yes- [GLAZE process], no- proceed to choice-test.



BTW, no product/preference bashing intended in my choice of phrasing, inclusions/omissions/etc., that's just what came to mind.
 
Accumulator said:
I also like 4DSC's idea to keep related work as integrated as possible. Like the oxidation process ~= the scratch process. In both cases you'd use an abrasive, so I'd say test " oxidation and/or moderate-severe scratches?", yes- [COMPOUNDING process], no- [proceed to next]
Click to expand...


So do I.



One ought clay a new car. Not sure EXACTLY where you'd want to insert this, it's another branch-to-clay-process for IF the car is NEW. If NOT, then proceed to your current "smooth as glass?" test.
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I 2nd that.



An off-the-cuff $0.02 about the wax/sealant...test for what LOOK is desired: "CARNAUBA LIKE" or "SYNTHETIC LOOK", CARNAUBA LIKE- test for "want to use WAX or SEALANT", WAX- test for "DURABILITY or LOOKS, DURABILITY- [Collinite], LOOKS- [Pinnacle, P21S], SYNTHETIC LOOK- TEST for VERY REFLECTIVE [Zaino] or VERY DURABLE [KSG].
Click to expand...

Sounds good, but I just think we could get consensus on which adjectives should characterize which wax/sealant.



Glad you're looking at this thread again, Accumulator.
 
I hope y'all (can you tell I live in MO?) can see this clearly enough - if someone has a better way for me to post this please let me know. I'd like to put up something a little larger and then put the link in the letter. Can that be done?



1. Oxidation/Swirls/Scratches decision. I changed that to be one decision as suggested. There can be more than 2 paths, I show one for "severe" and one for "moderate". And don't have anything in the boxes, or if there is more than one step don't know that either. Or maybe within "moderate" or "severe" there is a decision that leads to a certain product or process needed.



Please advise.



2. Wax/Seal. As advised I changed that decision to show a choice between "carnauba look or synthetic look". Not sure if that makes sense because as a newbie I would make the decision based on something else... At that point I think I'd be concerned about either longevity, or whether it's a bi-annual synth treatment, or maybe some other consideration?



Anyway look at the paths and please advise.



3. Products. In Wax/Seal it was suggested that we list product options. I'm sure there are more to be listed, and maybe even decisions that need to be made which help select the product.



Please advise.



4. Last step. If you're not a drinker (like myself) then omit the beer and insert your choice of celebration item.





Thanks for all the help, this is really coming along



Craig
 

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:bounce Yipee Yiyayooo!!!



You have come a long way. I will try to review the flow chart and provide some inputs to improve it.
 
Lynn- Yeah, my choice of adjectives/means of differentiating between products leaves a LOT to be desired. Please consider what I came up with to be a first draft in need of considerable copy editing/revision. I'm hoping that someone will chime in with some far better suggestions.



Jaim- If you look over the following reply to ZenHog, you'll note I had trouble, based on the logic flow, deciding which way to go on a few issues. Please see how it strikes YOU.



ZenHog- You're doing great! Some of this stuff gets tricky to figure out flow-wise. I'll try to address your questions/concerns as best I can, just keep asking away.



<<1. Oxidation/Swirls/Scratches decision. I changed that to be one decision as suggested. There can be more than 2 paths, I show one for "severe" and one for "moderate". And don't have anything in the boxes, or if there is more than one step don't know that either. Or maybe within "moderate" or "severe" there is a decision that leads to a certain product or process needed. >>



Ideally, you would test for "severe"/"moderate"/"light". The processes would flow from "severe"/"moderate" -->retest. As in, MAYBE the process used on severe problems would leave a ready-to-wax finish, BUT maybe it would only improve it to a moderate or lightly imperfect finish. In the latter case more work would be needed before moving on to the sealant/wax step.



<<2. Wax/Seal. As advised I changed that decision to show a choice between "carnauba look or synthetic look". Not sure if that makes sense because as a newbie I would make the decision based on something else... At that point I think I'd be concerned about either longevity, or whether it's a bi-annual synth treatment, or maybe some other consideration? >>



Yeah, this is a tough one. I INITIALLY did it by longevity rather than "look", but then Collinite wax can last as long as some (many?) synthetics..I found the logic flow to work better IN MY MIND (a scary place :p ) based on "look". Again, please consider this to be a first version/attempt which can certainly be improved upon. Try it different ways and see what YOU think. There SHOULD be an optimal approach to this, but it might take some fiddling around to find it.



Other thoughts...the conventional wisdom is that you'd only use a glaze (to cover light swirls) under a carnauba (I know, opinions/experiences vary). So, IMO, that would fit into the carnauba path.



<<3. Products. In Wax/Seal it was suggested that we list product options. I'm sure there are more to be listed, and maybe even decisions that need to be made which help select the product. >>



Yeah, and we can't include EVERYTHING. I'd try to be representative within the two categories.



For which WAX to use, I'd test for "STAINING TRIM IMPORTANT?", "EASE OF USE IMPORTANT?", "PREFER BRIGHT OR DEEP LOOK?", "DURABILITY/LONGEVITY IMPORTANT?"



For which SEALANT to use, the tests would be about the same.



Not sure how you'd nest all these considerations..have to cogitate on it some more.



<<4. Last step. If you're not a drinker (like myself) then omit the beer and insert your choice of celebration item. >>



Do you mean to say that you ARE a drinker (as I am) or that you are NOT? I must need more coffee, I honestly can't tell ;)
 
This is excellent work! Even as is now you can get a beginner up to speed in a diagram as opposed to five pages of hard-to-understand text. I could see potential of this being included in the Autopia eBook. You could have separate flows for full external paint detail, car wash, interior, etc.
 
Now someone just needs to create a dynamically driven webpage that steps through the "flow-chart" that evolves from this discussion. I think this would be an excellent tool for freshmen detailers. I also feel that once a pocess flow chart has been developed, that each still can list available products to accomplish that step.
 
Hey! What happened to this thread?



I was just looking back through these older posts to try and gain more knowledge and just ran across this thread. The people and amount of info and suggestions that were starting to come together were awesome! I was really looking forward to the final outcome as it would be a GREAT resource for the newbies (like me).



While I have done a lot of reading and learned a lot, it is still very overwhelming when you consider all of the products out there and what they are used for exactly and when.



This was looking to be a FANTASTIC project and it seemed to just die. Say it ain't so???!!!
 
I was thinking about this while trying not to sweat on the new finish today..



I think it deserves completion. I'll get to it tonight or Sun am! Glad someone wants this to live!
 
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