AIO vs. SG

Actually, I think you guys answered my question already: AoS, you keep layering the same sealant, Charles you add UPP after AIO or SG. I think that's right.
 
Your 1 to 5 process should work fine. You can use UPP as you have listed or substitute the SG for the UPP.
You can probably mix them, but I guess I don't see any reason to want to do that.
:dunno
Charles
 
Thanks, Charles, like I said, with a Honda Civic it's not like having that super-glossy look is that important. I just want it to look "good" or "OK" and make sure I'm not doing something demonstrably wrong.

All practice for when I have a car where I REALLY care how every little nth degree looks!!

Then I'll really start to bug you guys with questions!
 
HAD it!!

I'm using QD+ but am going to really layer the acrylics and polymers in October for the winter. I'm thinking AIO + SG and then either a 2nd coat of SG or 2 coats of UPP. I'm gonna read more here and confirm that UPP is layerable on top of SG -- from what you said, it should be. Just want to be sure nothing on my 2004 Civic renders it irrelevant.

I also have the Poorboys line...may mix them in as well...they sure are cheaper than those Klasse products !
 
Ace Of Spades said:
Andrew, I'm just going with what I know, and what the customer wants. SG is the most durable sealant I've used to date, and this guy wants that (and he's paying the bill).
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I was just wondering if there was something about the UPP that made it not good for winter. Personal preference I understand.

BTW, just because a company names a product Ultimate Paint Protection doesn't mean that it "is" the ultimate paint protection. This is not a slam on UPP, I have a couple of bottles of it and love it. I use it all the time including on my own vehicles.
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BTW, I wasn't saying because of it's name it's "the" ultimate. I was making sure we were speaking of the same product. Please give me a *little* credit.



blue skies,
Andrew
 
Ok, to add to the info and hopefully not the confusion about layering and such we've been talking about...

I have tried the following "layer" combinations with the products we're discussing. All preceeded by normal prep (clay, polish, wash, etc). This particular vehicle is a Lexus 400 with dark blue metallic paint ("Star Saphire").

AIO/SG: My first try at sealants. To be specific, I did AIOx2, and then about 7 layers of SG. Noticed significant difference after the first layer of SG over just the AIO, and then another "step up" after about 4 layers. After that, I think I was just being a normal obsessive detailer. ;)

AIO/SG/Souveran: This was later in the year, Souveran added on top of the above. Again, I could see the difference, not sure if anyone would be able to notice it if they didn't see the hood done in the "before/after" mode. But I thought the Souveran added depth. Note at this point, no longer could add more SG, so the obsessive layers became Souveran. Nice thing is that the Souveran smells much better than the SG :)

AIO/SG/UPP: New season. Prepped car as usual, then did AIOx2 and SG. For the first time, ran into the SG "oily swirls" issue. Fought the stupid stuff every time for three layers. Decided to try UPP, layered it on top of the SG. No oily swirls. Looked great, added about 4 more layers of UPP through the year.

NOTE: Up to this point, my QD choices were primarily Meguiar's QD and EF Clear Pearl, mostly Clear Pearl. Yes, Clear Pearl has carnauba in it, but at least for me I think the small amount comes off and doesn't impede the adhesion of the sealants. I was just careful to never go straight from QD to applying another layer of SG or UPP, always made sure there was a good wash in there first. I suspected it in the oily swirl issue, but I used it the first season too.

AIO/UPP: This is my current method on this vehicle, it's AIOx2, and I'm up to about 4 layers of UPP. Also new to the mix is UGE. I ran out of Clear Pearl and wanted to try the "matching" QD for the sealant. It makes a big difference, the paint now looks better (deeper) than the SG/Souveran version. I really like the UGE.

Question for anyone who's used UGE on something besides UPP, does it still give you that "deeper" look, like I seem to see with it over UPP? I haven't tried it over any other finishes.

Blue Skies,
Andrew
 
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Andrew, great post and thanks.

2 questions:

First, when you applied 7 SG layers, how long did that take (both the actual application -- by hand or PC? -- and also, did you WAIT between layerings?)

Second, you must have used close to 1/2 the bottle of SG for 7 layers, right? The bottle says 2 oz per car, but most of us said closer to 1 oz based on other product usage experiences. Still, 7 layers had to really consume alot of the stuff, right? I don't think most of us want to use that much every few weeks on our car!
 
HondaMan said:
First, when you applied 7 SG layers, how long did that take (both the actual application -- by hand or PC? -- and also, did you WAIT between layerings?)
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Applied by hand, I have a cheesy random orbital but rarely use it. A PC is on my list for Christmas.

And yes, it was over time (couple months, once I was past about layer 4). I always let a layer "cure" at least 24 hours. I still follow this practice with the UPP and other products, even if I have time in one day to do more than one layer, I don't do it. I'd say that from wash to completion of removing the SG would be abou t3 or 4 hours, depending on how much time I spent on interior stuff while letting the SG dry.

I also followed what I thought was good advice from someone, and that was once I had a layer on everything, to slowly work over the car panel by panel. So what I did was, every evening or so when I had time I would do one or two panels. I kept track of where I was and just sort of worked my way around the car. I did this so I could remove imprefections I found (the car was new to me at this point). so in places I might spot remove the layers to fix minor problems, but I'd always try and catch them back up.

Second, you must have used close to 1/2 the bottle of SG for 7 layers, right? The bottle says 2 oz per car, but most of us said closer to 1 oz based on other product usage experiences. Still, 7 layers had to really consume alot of the stuff, right? I don't think most of us want to use that much every few weeks on our car!
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I'd say a little less than 1/2 the bottle, right. It hasn't been touched since, but hard to tell since you can't see through it. But remember, this is total, over the course of the summer. I did the AIOx2 and a layer of SG in one weekend, AIO on Saturday (both time, since it doesn't layer anyway) and the SG on Sunday. Then up to about layer 4 over the next month, a panel or 2 or 3 at a time, as I described above. Then it was just as I had time/obsessiveness.

I'm almost out of AIO, that I do need to get more of. I really like it as a cleaner/base coat. In addition to it's performance (which I think we all agree on in general), I like that it doesn't turn white on trim and such, and it cleans glass, lenses, etc etc etc as well as the paint.

blue skies,
Adnrew
 
I wonder if this do-it-the-next-day 24 hour wait for multiple coats of sealants is really necessary? Maybe you get 95% of the layering if you give it 1-4 hours?

I hate having to wait a day because it kind of ties up my car (I don't want to drive it and then have to S&W or wash it if it gets dirty).
 
HondaMan said:
I wonder if this do-it-the-next-day 24 hour wait for multiple coats of sealants is really necessary? Maybe you get 95% of the layering if you give it 1-4 hours?

I hate having to wait a day because it kind of ties up my car (I don't want to drive it and then have to S&W or wash it if it gets dirty).
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I think it does make a difference.

Even though the layer may be partially hard/dry/cured, the way I undestand it is that the solvents in the next layer will still affect it.

I just dust it with my california car duster, QD if necessary, and go from there.

Even if it actually gets dirty, I've used the quick-detail method (not to be confused with a product), using 2 buckets and a coupl of MF towels to do a quick clean.
 
I like layering UPP over AIO. UPP layered over SG seems a bit odd, why not just use multiple layers of SG? Also I love this quote from you honda:
"I think the bottom line is: I have too much damn stuff from our sponsors!!! "

I can TOTALLY relate to that. :)
 
immaculate said:
I like layering UPP over AIO. UPP layered over SG seems a bit odd, why not just use multiple layers of SG?
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for me, it was giving up in frustration at the "oily swirl" problem with SG. I only switched from SG to UPP mid-stream because of that. This season, it's been UPP over AIO all along.

I think the UPP looks better - a little "deeper". But it doesn't seem as durable.

blue skies,
Andrew
 
hook said:
I was just wondering if there was something about the UPP that made it not good for winter. Personal preference I understand.



BTW, I wasn't saying because of it's name it's "the" ultimate. I was making sure we were speaking of the same product. Please give me a *little* credit.



blue skies,
Andrew
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Nothing I know about UPP makes it not good for the winter. As I stated previously, this is what the customer wanted.

And you did imply that UPP was the ultimate by stating "upp=ultimate paint protection".

Maybe that is what you meant, but that is the way I read into it. I love both products, and as far as I am concerned it's merely a matter of personal preference.
 
hook said:
for me, it was giving up in frustration at the "oily swirl" problem with SG. I only switched from SG to UPP mid-stream because of that. This season, it's been UPP over AIO all along.

I think the UPP looks better - a little "deeper". But it doesn't seem as durable.

blue skies,
Andrew
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If you are getting an oily swirl from SG (also known as the cloud effect) you are having bonding issues. Never happened to me, but I have heard of it before.

IMHO that UPP over AIO is an excellent combo though.
 
Ace Of Spades said:
If you are getting an oily swirl from SG (also known as the cloud effect) you are having bonding issues.
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Yep. But I couldn't figure out *anything* that was causing it, nor could I prevent it. Only thing I could think of that makes sense and fits the variables is that it was more humid. Or, the SG "turned" somehow (which seems unlikely).

At first I thought I hadn't gotten all the carnauba topper off from the previous season....but that idea crashed and burned when I stripped everything (again!) with PPCL and then AIOx2.

Said "what the heck", and tried some UPP someone gave me, right over the oily haze. It not only didn't haze, it came off very easy. Been using it since.

blue skies,
Andy
 
Hook, that sounds like the same situation other users have had with SG. I wonder if there was a bad batch? Oh well, you found a product you like so it can't be all bad. I love UPP too. Probably my favorite all-around sealant. Slick, shiny and wet.
 
HondaMan said:
I wonder if this do-it-the-next-day 24 hour wait for multiple coats of sealants is really necessary? Maybe you get 95% of the layering if you give it 1-4 hours?

I hate having to wait a day because it kind of ties up my car (I don't want to drive it and then have to S&W or wash it if it gets dirty).
Click to expand...

There is definitely a cure time ... when not using UPP, I use Meguiars NXT quite a bit.
What made a believer out of me for waiting because of the curing process (besides the manufacturer's directions) was this:
NXT is different 24 hours after it has been on the car ...
1. It feels slicker
2. It looks wetter and shinier
I know this is only one product but I believe that they all work pretty similar in the curing process ... so for me ... I wait 24 hours until I apply another coat.
 
It's not on the bottles -- UPP, Liquid Glass, EX, SG -- that one should wait 24 hours or even 12.

Has this been confirmed by the makers orally? Or is this experience on the part of veterans talking?

I'll wait the 24 hours, I just wish I could get 95% of the curing/sealing if I waited 8 or so. I hate tying up the car -- hey, you pros, does this mean you guys never can finish a car in less than 1 day since you'll need to apply 2nd coats 24 hours later?
 
HondaMan said:
It's not on the bottles -- UPP, Liquid Glass, EX, SG -- that one should wait 24 hours or even 12.

Has this been confirmed by the makers orally? Or is this experience on the part of veterans talking?

I'll wait the 24 hours, I just wish I could get 95% of the curing/sealing if I waited 8 or so. I hate tying up the car -- hey, you pros, does this mean you guys never can finish a car in less than 1 day since you'll need to apply 2nd coats 24 hours later?
Click to expand...

I just tried UPP on my car this morning, I love the look as much as EXP, different from EXP but lovely :bigups :bigups

On PAC's website , towards the end it says Additional layers of Four Star UPP (Ultimate Paint Protection) may be added every 24 hours.
btw you DON'T have to layer a 2nd coat hehe
 
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