Advice required, stuck in a rut?

V

vwlover

New member
I was wondering if some of the rotary pros could help me as Im stuck with a few things.



I'm using Yellow megs polishing pads and dark red light cutting megs pads.



I'm using Menzerna Int polish and Fin polish.



The car in question is a met black Mercedes clk.



I sart at 600 rpm1 pas to spread the product (intensive polish with 1 mist of distilled water on the pad)

jump to 1000 and stick at this speed.

I move at the rate of 2 inches per second.



After it is virtually dry I wipe away residue to inspect. I find there is still some marring but lots of buffer trails. If I run it at 1500 rpm then I get more trails. Why is this?



I have given the panel about 10 passes now and still it looks the same in terms of marring, its no better. Do I need to be more heavy handed?



Also I followed up with the final polish on the yellow pad to remove buffer trails slowly passes at 900 rpm but they are still there faintly.



I want a glass like finish with no marks at all. Inthe sun its noticeable bad.



Please help..



Thanks
 
Just my opinion. "Get a PC"



Now to answer your question.

The red pad is pretty agressive. It will put buffer trails in the paint. 10 passes a panel? I wonder how much clear has been removed. Be careful with the rotary!!! You can destroy the paint.



1) Stop using the red pad. Use the meg yellow pad with Fin polish first. If that starts increasing the gloss and removing the swirls continue using that combo. Do not dry buff!!! (I am coming from a meg user's point of view)



2) If it does not seem to be improving the surface get a little more aggressive polish such as IP with the yellow polishing pad, but you do not need to use the red pad again, because it is not a true polishing pad. It's a leveling pad made to remove deep defects. It will mar the paint. Then go back to step #1)



JMO



Derrick



p.s. Get a PC
 
Derrick said:
Just my opinion. "Get a PC"



Now to answer your question.

The red pad is pretty agressive. It will put buffer trails in the paint. 10 passes a panel? I wonder how much clear has been removed. Be careful with the rotary!!! You can destroy the paint.



1) Stop using the red pad. Use the meg yellow pad with Fin polish first. If that starts increasing the gloss and removing the swirls continue using that combo. Do not dry buff!!! (I am coming from a meg user's point of view)



2) If it does not seem to be improving the surface get a little more aggressive polish such as IP with the yellow polishing pad, but you do not need to use the red pad again, because it is not a true polishing pad. It's a leveling pad made to remove deep defects. It will mar the paint. Then go back to step #1)



JMO



Derrick



p.s. Get a PC
Click to expand...



Im checking the paint thickness regularly.



Am I moving at a rate of 2 inches per second ok? Also do I keep going over with the final polish until the trails go away? Or will they ever go away..
 
UPDATE



Ok just come back in. I have spent in total about 2.5 hours on the trunk.



I tried very slow passes at 1500 rpm this time using intensive polish on a yellow pad. The majority of marring has gone but there is still some deeper ones there. I have taken about 10 microns off so far. Why cant I get a perfect finish!! I want 100% perfect not 95%.



The halogen lights shows its a nice finish but no doubt the sun will tellme a different story tmrw.



Is it dangerous to push on the head of the rotary? At the moment I apply no pressure what so ever but I was thinking if I push on a deep scratch and get some heat build up, lift up and get some air in and re-push will this get the defect out more effectively and add an element of safety? Last thing I want is burn through some paint but I just feel damn slow. Some of you guys do a whhole car in 3 hours, Im spending 10 hours and still not happy..
 
Now move to the final polish and see if that takes away the marring.



Apply some pressure(not too much) on the head while moving the head like you are doing now on the first and maybe the second pass, then lighten up on the head and polish to the gloss you want.



That should do it. If that does not get it you will have to use the IP with the steps above, and then repeat the steps above with the final polish.



You already know to "Never let the head stay stationary in one place." 2-3 inches a sec is the nice and slow way to remove defects. One more thing, you can polish between 1000-1500 rpm. Also every so often check the temp of the paint with your hand, the most it should feel is warm NOT HOT. It's the micro abrasives in the polish that gives the paint its gloss NOT the heat.





JMO(because I am not there supervising you),

RayC777
 
First off i do not try to get paint 100% perfect, unless we are talking about light marring. Deep scratches should not be buffed out. A better way is to wet sand them, but that is another story. Just buff them enough to round off the corners so them don't reflect as much light.



It is more important to remove all buffer trails and signs of your correction work. This is why a PC is good for final polish on black.



You can use a little pressure, carefully and check paint temp. NOT ON CORNERS OR EDGES!



If this a customers car it should be explained before work has started, what can be done and not.
 
Thanks for the tips. Am I correct in thinking buffer trails is the same thing as halograms? How do these appear and why?



Will the finishing pad with FPII remove them easily? What speed is best with the FPII and fn pad? I will try it in the morn.
 
IMO your process is too aggressive. You will get trails with IP every time, it isn't a finishing product. You will also have trails with FP and a polishing pad. On the darkest of paints I have tried FP and a Meg's finishing pad with good results but depending on the paint there are still some light trails. This is a result of the machine, not the product/pad combo. The rotary is not a good tool to use to finish off today's soft clears. You need a DA type machine.



I follow the last rotary step with a DA type machine, typically with either Meg's 80 or Menzerna FP and a LC VC white polishing pad. As long as you haven't put deep trails in the paint with the rotary those combos will work for trail free finishing. Sometimes a second pass is necessary on top surfaces, again depends on the paint. I use a Brinkman dual Xenon light for spot checking in the shop when direct sunlight is not available.



Save yourself the aggrevation, go DA.
 
I too would say PC if you are having that much problem with the rotary....but I havent used a rotary in 4 years, so maybe I am a little biased...lol
 
I consider myself very good with a rotary so here is the process I would suggest:



Put a couple quarter size beads on the panel to be worked. If its your first panel and you havent buffed yet put a light ring of product around your pad so it is primed. With the buffer off spread the beads so they aren't so large. @900 spread the product on the panel. Next turn up the buffer to 1500 rpm. I figure I move about 4 inches/second but that seems hard to guage. After taking a few passes check your work, it you need longer then continue. One you have removed the spider webbing remove the polish residue. There will most likely be some light holograms, buffer trails, and most likely some haze. Next with a finishing or finessing pad run spread the FPII then buff at 1500. With the FPII I like to run the machine a little slower as I find that the FPII if used correctly will not leave any holograms. There are exceptions to this though one being corvette clearcoat. After buffing the FPII, I usually do 4-6 overlapping passes, buff off and inspect. I think you will find that the surface is in pristine condition.



One thing we need to remember is that sometimes it is not possible to safely bring a car back to 100%. Many times when I restore paint I have to settle on 95% percent becuase removing some of the deeper scratches and marring is just not safe and will compromise the paints lifespan.



With that, happy buffing!



Greg
 
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