Advice on Detailing Plans

[Heide264]

Thanks again =)

 

[Heide264]

Okay, I didn't have to be in early today, so I decided to bust out my box of fun stuff. I started at 9:30pm with the wash and finished buffing off the BF at 12:30am. Was a bit hesitant about what I was doing until I buffed off that BF and saw the result. Wow. Am I ever impressed. Couple notes.



1.) Yup, theres marring. A decent amount. I think I should have put down some sealant as soon as I got the car home from the dealer. Next time around I may look into picking up a machine and a slightly more aggressive polish. That and my father wants me to do my moms 4 year old saab for mothers day.



2.) Can somebody compare and contrast hand polishing and waxing? I treated them as almost the same process, with a bit more 'umph' behind the polishing. Should there be a haze left behind the polish? When do I know I am done with an area? I just worked it a bit and then moved on.



3.) I think I need something to remove the oils left by the polish before applying the sealant next time. I have a feeling it would have gone on much easier that way. Also, a foam applicator over the microfiber pad applicator would probably have helped as well.



4.) Applicator pads of any sort should have a frekin wrist strap. Thats obnoxious to drop it, run upstairs, rinse it off, shake it dry-ish, and then start back up.



All in all, very impressed. My crappy cell phone can't do the product justice. Looks better than when I got it, minus some marring if you look very closely. Next time I will need to have more towels on back up for buffing.

 

[Accumulator]

Okay, I didn't have to be in early today, so I decided to bust out my box of fun stuff. I started at 9:30pm with the wash and finished buffing off the BF at 12:30am. Was a bit hesitant about what I was doing until I buffed off that BF and saw the result. Wow. Am I ever impressed...

Glad to hear you're happy with how it turned out. Gee, that was mighty quick too!

1.) Yup, theres marring. A decent amount. I think I should have put down some sealant as soon as I got the car home from the dealer. Next time around I may look into picking up a machine and a slightly more aggressive polish. That and my father wants me to do my moms 4 year old saab for mothers day.

Well, no real surprise there, and I doubt that sealing it earlier would've helped much. Leaving aside how the dealer probably marred it up, washing without marring is very, *VERY* difficult.Yeah, I really do think you'd consider the machine to be money well-spent. There are a few products that work OK by hand, but man-oh-man is it a workout.

2.) Can somebody compare and contrast hand polishing and waxing? I treated them as almost the same process, with a bit more 'umph' behind the polishing. Should there be a haze left behind the polish? When do I know I am done with an area? I just worked it a bit and then moved on.

Approaching it backwards, waxing/sealing is basically just wiping a product on the surface, letting it flash off ("dry") and then buffing off the residue (which is about 95% of what you put on in the first place, hence all the "thin thin thin" advice). There's usually no "working" the product; you merely transfer it from the applicator to the vehicle's surface.



Polishig is much more involved, both in what you're doing and how to do it. With products like Menzerna, you need to work the product until it breaks down. During this process you need to apply sufficient pressure for the abrasives to "grind down" the paint. It's basically like sanding wood.



You usually (as in, almost always) want to buff off the polish before it dries completely. And you usually do it over and over and over again until you've "ground down" the paint enough to "fix" the scratches/etc.

3.) I think I need something to remove the oils left by the polish before applying the sealant next time. I have a feeling it would have gone on much easier that way. Also, a foam applicator over the microfiber pad applicator would probably have helped as well.

Yeah, I generally use foam. You can use IPA to strip the oils, but TOL's PrepWash is better IME. Or use the BF prep product (forget what they call it these days) between the Menzerna and the BF; it works well and is easy, at least it was when I last used it.

4.) Applicator pads of any sort should have a frekin wrist strap. Thats obnoxious to drop it, run upstairs, rinse it off, shake it dry-ish, and then start back up.

Heh heh....yeah...or have a scad of applicators (that's how I deal with that).

All in all, very impressed. ... Next time I will need to have more towels on back up for buffing.

Again, I'm glad it turned out well. Yeah, get more applicators, towels, and consider that BF pre-sealant stuff. And I'd sure go with a different approach (and a polisher if possible) if you're doing that Saab!

 

[Heide264]

Glad to hear you're happy with how it turned out. Gee, that was mighty quick too!

I only took a minute or two break to get another beer or two, otherwise straight through. Good exercise after sitting in a cube all day.

Well, no real surprise there, and I doubt that sealing it earlier would've helped much. Leaving aside how the dealer probably marred it up, washing without marring is very, *VERY* difficult.Yeah, I really do think you'd consider the machine to be money well-spent. There are a few products that work OK by hand, but man-oh-man is it a workout.

I think we may actually have something downstairs. We have an unheard of amount of power tools, and I would not be surprised to find something. I would still need to buy pads, but I will look around. Sure would make life easier and have better results.



I may invest in one of those cheap spray bottles that you pump and use to spray weeds down. I could load it with ONR and presoak the car. This, combined with a whole bunch of microfibers, would probably help. No dirt in the washing rag from rinsing in used water that way. Also, I feel better having it 'presoaked'. I definitely need to learn to go through towels faster.

Approaching it backwards, waxing/sealing is basically just wiping a product on the surface, letting it flash off ("dry") and then buffing off the residue (which is about 95% of what you put on in the first place, hence all the "thin thin thin" advice). There's usually no "working" the product; you merely transfer it from the applicator to the vehicle's surface.



Polishig is much more involved, both in what you're doing and how to do it. With products like Menzerna, you need to work the product until it breaks down. During this process you need to apply sufficient pressure for the abrasives to "grind down" the paint. It's basically like sanding wood.



You usually (as in, almost always) want to buff off the polish before it dries completely. And you usually do it over and over and over again until you've "ground down" the paint enough to "fix" the scratches/etc.

Well, that is good. That is about what I did. I applied a good bit of pressure and moved pretty quickly in small overlapping circles with the polish. Was pretty exhausting, but oh well.

Yeah, I generally use foam. You can use IPA to strip the oils, but TOL's PrepWash is better IME. Or use the BF prep product (forget what they call it these days) between the Menzerna and the BF; it works well and is easy, at least it was when I last used it.

Going to pick up a thing of prepsol of sorts.

Again, I'm glad it turned out well. Yeah, get more applicators, towels, and consider that BF pre-sealant stuff. And I'd sure go with a different approach (and a polisher if possible) if you're doing that Saab!

Yup, it's the trailblazer saab to make it more daunting (I can't even reach the middle of the roof - normally the easiest part minus the hood). I'd need a machine and a decently more aggressive polish. My family has a saab obsession... have a 9-3 convertible, 9-5, and my moms 93x or whatever it is (the saabarized-trailblazer). Not bad cars, just not my cup of tea. I'm sure they would all polish up wonderfly though with a medium cut polish.





One last question for now. I want to add another coat or two of that BF on when I have time. Considering it may have no applied perfectly due to the oils from the menzerna, would it be advisable to just wipe it down with Prepsol and then apply another coat after my trip to PSU this weekend (following a good wash, of course)? I know prepsol is a solvent, and I assume it will take off both the sealant AND the polish oils if there are any stuck under the sealant. Then I could just apply two fresh coats of the BF. True? False?

 

[Accumulator]

I One last question for now. I want to add another coat or two of that BF on when I have time. Considering it may have no applied perfectly due to the oils from the menzerna, would it be advisable to just wipe it down with Prepsol and then apply another coat after my trip to PSU this weekend (following a good wash, of course)? I know prepsol is a solvent, and I assume it will take off both the sealant AND the polish oils if there are any stuck under the sealant. Then I could just apply two fresh coats of the BF. True? False?

If things still look OK after the wash, I'd just apply more BF without stripping it. This is another case where I don't think you should go looking for problems that aren't readily apparent



IMO, when the oils are gonna cause real problems, they *do*...you can notice it. Otherwise I think the biggest issue might be some marring "coming back" as the oils dissipate (yeah, *under* the still-OK LSP, sounds weird but I've seen it happen). In that case you're looking at basically starting over to fix the marring again (or "for real"). But that oughta take a while even if it is gonna happen so I'd just add another layer of BF if things are looking OK.



Oh, and I always kinda liked Saabs, even though I never owned one. No idea how the clear is (hard/soft) but for "family and friends" level details, well, anything is better than nothing

 

[Heide264]

If things still look OK after the wash, I'd just apply more BF without stripping it. This is another case where I don't think you should go looking for problems that aren't readily apparent



IMO, when the oils are gonna cause real problems, they *do*...you can notice it. Otherwise I think the biggest issue might be some marring "coming back" as the oils dissipate (yeah, *under* the still-OK LSP, sounds weird but I've seen it happen). In that case you're looking at basically starting over to fix the marring again (or "for real"). But that oughta take a while even if it is gonna happen so I'd just add another layer of BF if things are looking OK.



Oh, and I always kinda liked Saabs, even though I never owned one. No idea how the clear is (hard/soft) but for "family and friends" level details, well, anything is better than nothing

Thanks. That works for me. I'd rather keep it simple and just apply another layer... After I get a foam applicator instead of that microfiber sponge one.



Will dig through the hardware downstairs. Is there any difference between a normal 90 degree sander/grinder and a polisher? Excuse the somewhat obvious question. I am assuming a grinder/sander would have a whole lot more torque and be potentiall dangerous for car polish.



I don't mind the Saabs. Fun cars to drive if you don't mind the fwd feeling without any work. I bet they'd clean up really nice though with a machine and a medium level polish. I'll put it on the back burner pending the hardware exploration.



Thanks again for all the help. Really appreciate the help getting into this. Surprisingly steep learning curve to keep the car looking great =P

 

[Accumulator]

Will dig through the hardware downstairs. Is there any difference between a normal 90 degree sander/grinder and a polisher? Excuse the somewhat obvious question. I am assuming a grinder/sander would have a whole lot more torque and be potentiall dangerous for car polish...

While *random orbital* sanders are great for this stuff (that's the the Porter Cable/"PC" really is), you're right about how angle grinders aren't really suitable. While they are somewhat similar to *rotary* polishers in a general sense (i.e., they spin whatever attachment you use in a circular manner), their usual speed range makes them a bad idea for polishing cars.



And yeah, it is a bit more involved than one might first expect.

 

[RevC]

Congrats on the STi, have a 2011 SSM stage 2 sedan as well.

 

[extrabolts]

Congratulations on the car and welcome! I sort of skimmed the first few pages, but here are my random thoughts -



- Polishing by hand - I really don't think this is worth it. Ask yourself: would I like to polish my car at least once / year? If so, save up and buy a machine. I really like my Flex but there are other good options that are cheaper. Of you don't to polish at least once / year, I'd just pay someone to do it for you every few years or whenever.



- ONR: Good stuff. Dilute it as indicated on the bottle and you have a great clay lube. I use it at detail spray strength for things like door jams, bird bombs, etc.



- Make sure to tear the tags off your microfiber towels and wash them without any fabric softener sheets. This will keep them very staticy, which is good, but also requires that you use a LOT of microfibers. I'd use significantly more than 2 to ONR a vehicle. I'd probably divide the car into 3 or 4 sections and use a different wet and dry towel for each section.



- The little bumps on your paint sounds like orange peel. Unfortunately, this is perfectly normal.



- Wax or seal frequently. It will make washing much easier, and I've found that a well-waxed car resists marring better during washes.



- Never use any pressure when touching your paint. The only exception is polishing, but that happens infrequently. If you have good wax down, bird bombs should come right off even with ONR. If not, go get your clay and use that with light pressure. Resist the urge to "rub" stuff off, always think wipe not rub.

 

[Heide264]

Congrats on the STi, have a 2011 SSM stage 2 sedan as well.

Good stuff. The cars are a blast to drive. Still can't wipe the stupid grin off my face when I sit in it. Have a Nameless Performance axle-back coming in for it tomorrow, and gonna pick up a tactrix cable and get an 'eTune' shortly. Holding off on the intake/down pipe until I get a wide band and a bit more confident logging and adjusting the tune.

Congratulations on the car and welcome! I sort of skimmed the first few pages, but here are my random thoughts -



- Polishing by hand - I really don't think this is worth it. Ask yourself: would I like to polish my car at least once / year? If so, save up and buy a machine. I really like my Flex but there are other good options that are cheaper. Of you don't to polish at least once / year, I'd just pay someone to do it for you every few years or whenever.

I think I will pick up a Griot's 6". I am going to ask my dad if he'd like to pitch in for it in exchange for his saab being touched up.

- ONR: Good stuff. Dilute it as indicated on the bottle and you have a great clay lube. I use it at detail spray strength for things like door jams, bird bombs, etc.

I picked up a spray bottle of poorboy's stuff for the little things. It is nice, but tempting to do the entire car everytime I go to take a bird bomb off =P

- Make sure to tear the tags off your microfiber towels and wash them without any fabric softener sheets. This will keep them very staticy, which is good, but also requires that you use a LOT of microfibers. I'd use significantly more than 2 to ONR a vehicle. I'd probably divide the car into 3 or 4 sections and use a different wet and dry towel for each section.

I forgot to take the tags off, realized that it may be a good idea last wash. I will start ripping them off. I stalked up on 'vroom' towels, I plan on using more per wash than I have in the past. I think I have enough to do a machine load now. Cold cycle and no fabric softeners.

- The little bumps on your paint sounds like orange peel. Unfortunately, this is perfectly normal.

Eh, Oh well. Can't win them all. Thanks for the confirmation.

- Wax or seal frequently. It will make washing much easier, and I've found that a well-waxed car resists marring better during washes.

I wish I would have just spent time and got the sealant on right after I bought it. Really does make life a lot easier.

- Never use any pressure when touching your paint. The only exception is polishing, but that happens infrequently. If you have good wax down, bird bombs should come right off even with ONR. If not, go get your clay and use that with light pressure. Resist the urge to "rub" stuff off, always think wipe not rub.

I need to work on this. Bad habit.





Also, my car recently received a pollen shower. It is parked under a several story tall oak tree, and we got a nice heavy rain. I think I am just going to hit up an automated pay and spray (brushless) to get it off and just dry it by driving - running a bit short on time with these long days at work. Also, the undercarriage spray would be awesome before I throw my new exhaust on tomorrow.

 

[Accumulator]

.. [when washing MFs I use].. Cold cycle..

No need to use cold, hot water, even *VERY* hot, doesn't damage MFs. I just did a load on "sanitary cycle" this morning, and plenty of people actually *boil* them! It takes an awfully high temp to damage MFs, so high that you basically don't have to worry about it.

..the undercarriage spray would be awesome before I throw my new exhaust on tomorrow.

Yeah, keeping the undercarriage nice has all sorts of benefits :xyxthumbs

 

[Heide264]

No need to use cold, hot water, even *VERY* hot, doesn't damage MFs. I just did a load on "sanitary cycle" this morning, and plenty of people actually *boil* them! It takes an awfully high temp to damage MFs, so high that you basically don't have to worry about it.

Good to know. I am sure that will help out considering our hard water here. It's tough to get soap to do its job sometimes. Foam pads/applicators safe as well? I need to pick up a drying rack from Target. At least this investment has use other than cleaning my car =P.

Yeah, keeping the undercarriage nice has all sorts of benefits :xyxthumbs

Yeah this pay/spray doesn't kid around with theirs like CleanTown does. Clean Town did a pretty bad job with my car the one time I took it there. I wanted to get the big stuff off of it before doing a waterless wash (no hose at the moment at home), and I guess my car just doesn't jive well with their wash. Missed a lot of the side skirts and basically the entire rear end and hatch - which is consistently the dirtiest part.



I was in the process of wondering how they do the undercarriage spray when I was going forward on the 'slow' part. Seeing the bump that car washes normally have, I was concentrating on not stalling my car out (still getting the hang of the clutch - big jump from the astro van I had), it scared the living jesus out of me. I'll pay the money for the wash just for the undercarriage at this point though. $7 to not have mud falling on your face while under the car... no problem in my book.

 

[RevC]

ah okay, i had the nameless axleback then switched to the invidia, a bit too aggressive for me. The AEM intake is fabulous esp with the invidia dp. i can't get over the sound, i'd go with an accessport but many people do opt for opensource. the car is def a blast, we'll see what it can do at NJMP on sunday i've found chemical guys ez creme topped with JS109/butter wet wax has treated me well. happy detailing/motoring. look me up on Iwsti!