A-Shilling we will go! See CMA's monthly newsletter...

It's the job of marketing guys to get the product and the name out there, and they do it all kinds of ways. I'm glad the Toyota trucks were brought up. Vehicles cost money, Toyota at least provided them for free and perhaps even paid 24 to use their trucks. Based on that, I don't think you'll see any characters saying "you know, these Toyota trucks suck" or see them depicted in a bad light. But a bunch of people probably thought "Cool! Jack drives a Tundra!". Perhaps the same reaction that occurs when someone who supplies detailing products gives them to someone for free in exchange for an internet forum review...as the Romans used to say "caveat emptor".



I think we're all talking about the same thing here, we all try and resist being manipulated by advertising, and it's harder to do that when we don't realize we're being advertised to.
 
Its amazing what people will do for money, and in this case, free detailing products. Its a shame.



If these companies would just put that wasted time and effort into real advertising they might actually do better than using shills. To me, a company that gets its name out by using shills, just doesn't get my respect.
 
Interesting thread. I think this is relative to the conversation . . .



Here in Boston there is a company called Buzz Agent. They specialize in "word of mouth" marketing. In this type of marketing basically what you do is you get your product out to people (called Buzz Agents) and if they like it then they tell their friends. It's a very powerful form of marketing because friends are always a trusted source of information. The Buzz Agents receive no compensation except free product and I think you can also earn points to redeem in a catalogue. They do encourage people to be open and honest about where they got their product from and their association with Buzz Agent.



To me, this is only shades different from "shilling." The big difference is that the Buzz Agents are supposed to be honest about where the product came from and their association with the company.



Personally, I have NO problem if a person gets a product to try out for free and reviews it as long as they are open and honest about where they got the product from. There's absolutely nothing deceptive or dishonest about that.
 
I also do not have a problem if someone got a product for free or even if I felt the person's review was somehow biased, just as long as it was disclosed to me so I can make up in my own mind what to think and what to take of that information.



That's why there's a difference between someone like Mike Phillips vs Justin. If Mike Phillips said "NXT is the most durable of the Meg's sealants", I don't necessarily agree with his views, but at the same time I know that he is an employee of Meguiars so I don't really have a problem with his statements because he's doing what he has to do. Meguiars wouldn't keep him on the payroll if he recommended other products from their competitors.



Now imagine if we were never told about his affiliation to Meguiars? He wouldn't be the respected person he is today within the community.
 
BlackElantraGT said:
I think you're contradicting yourself.
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I don't think I am contradicting myself. Maybe not explaining myself best but not contradicting.



BlackElantraGT said:
What is it that you'd rather have? Lets use Wheaties as an example.

...

Now in your eyes, which is more deceptive? Having a paid celebrity endorser trump up a product? Or watching a product advertisement without you even knowing about it?
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Wheaties is a bad example. First, it as advertising to children, and I am against advertising aimed to children, period, because it is manipulating those that are not capable of seeing through what is going on and saying no to it.



So, for the sake of discussion, let's say it is aimed to only adults. It is still a bad example. Why? Because it is obvious it is not just a promotion anymore, it has past that point. Is their arm bending in bad taste and on the edge of dishonesty and manipulation? Yes, just like almost every advertising nowadays is. Still, what is going on is clear to anybody that hasn't been born relatively recently.



However, shilling is none of that. It is complete deception developed to reduce possibility of advertising being recognized as advertising in order to reduce chance of sale attempt being dismissed and therefore I mind it very much. I mind being lied to.
 
Was Justin really a shill for AG? I'd really like to know, because I will not do business from a company that uses such practices. AG is going to lose quite a few customers if they really do this.
 
SuperBee364 said:
Was Justin really a shill for AG? I'd really like to know, because I will not do business from a company that uses such practices. AG is going to lose quite a few customers if they really do this.
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Obviously no one will admit it or not but my personal opinion based on his posts and how he promoted products that as far as I know are only offered through AG, yes.
 
SuperBee364 said:
Was Justin really a shill for AG? I'd really like to know, because I will not do business from a company that uses such practices. AG is going to lose quite a few customers if they really do this.
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I don't think so he used products he likes. He seems to take a liking to DP the most. Thats no differnt then folks chosing to use and recomend and detail specificly with brand X. AG doesn't have to use shills they have established them selves quit well for being hoenst and going above and beyond for customer needs. I was recently asked if I wanted to do a review for AG and they asked that I be honest and straight forward and I quote "We dont need butt kissers, just your honest opinion" Meghan from AG. Seems clear to me they don't want suck ups, they want honest feed back.
 
WilliamHBonney said:
Obviously no one will admit it or not but my personal opinion based on his posts and how he promoted products that as far as I know are only offered through AG, yes.
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I don't think he was shill by that definition. I think he was just way too enthusiastic on his own. Was that enthusiasm fed in a manner that is by definition following rules of professional behavior yet results in encouraging enthusiasm? It is very hard to separate that.
 
I've had many off-line conversations with Justin. Never once did I have the impression that he was pushing a product, shilling, etc. The conversations were generally generic in nature.
 
So maybe he didn't push products in his off-line conversations with you, but didn't you read any of his ON-LINE reviews? Plus, why would he even bother pushing a product to one person in private, when he can push a product in a public forum to thousands of potential viewers and customers?



Do I think Justin is on AG's payroll? No, I don't think he's an employee per se of AG. But I do think he has some sort of connection with them, sorta like a sponsorship. Who knows if he gets paid monetarily under the table, but I think his relationship with AG is more where he gets free products and a big discount from them.



I've liked how AG has handle business in the past, so for the benefit of the doubt, I'm guessing that the relationship between Justin and AG was not a business decision from the get go. AG probably gave him a few free products to try out, he in returned did a "positive" review on here, which in turn brought more sales since a lot of people followed his reviews. AG probably added 2 and 2 together and to capitalize on it, they started giving him more products to "review" until eventually he sorta became the unofficial "spokesman" for AG, as some people noticed he was the center of attention at AG's Detailfest.



I think many of us started to question Justin's integrity around Xmas time when he was "enthusiastically" starting new threads about AG's Xmas deals going around. I think for the most part that was overlooked though because many of us on here like to tell other members about hot deals going on so for all we know he was just helping out the forum.



But ever since this past Xmas season, his reviews started to pour in and a majority of the products he "reviewed" were AG affiliated products, like Pinnacle, XMT, DP, etc. I don't think that's a coincidence by any chance because what better product for AG to push than their own, where profits would be the highest?



I also don't think it was a coincidence how in at least one of his "review" that I remembered (the one about DP's quick detailer), Justin went through the trouble of not only inserting a picture of the product, but also making it a clickable link that takes you right to AG's website for you to purchase the product.



I'm a pretty computer savvy person and instead of trying to figure out how to post a clickable image on this forum or any forum for that matter, I'd rather just post a website address, which the forum software in turn just makes that a regular link. Justin doesn't seem like a genius to me so to take the time to do that sealed the deal on my opinion of him. I used to like reading his reviews, and then doubt started to grow, but that thread about the DP quick detailer product was what finally made me realize that Justin had ulterior motives behind his "reviews".



Like I said previously, I wouldn't have cared if his reviews were biased, but he never came clean about it and even threatened the forum that he'd sue for defamation. Who the f*ck does he think he is? He's just some hick from the South with a yellow truck. I don't have a problem with AG nor any of the products they make and sell, but I would never purchase a product based on Justin's "reviews" alone. I've lost all trust and faith in that guy.
 
For the record, justin30513 was banned due to a direct violation of the House Rules, commercialism specifically, not because he was a suspected shill or any other reason of that type.



He was given a formal warning, and proceeded to continue violating the rules.



Just wanted to set that straight.
 
wytstang said:
I don't think so he used products he likes. He seems to take a liking to DP the most. Thats no differnt then folks chosing to use and recomend and detail specificly with brand X. AG doesn't have to use shills they have established them selves quit well for being hoenst and going above and beyond for customer needs. I was recently asked if I wanted to do a review for AG and they asked that I be honest and straight forward and I quote "We dont need butt kissers, just your honest opinion" Meghan from AG. Seems clear to me they don't want suck ups, they want honest feed back.
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Wystang ..you did an excellent write up and review on the XMT 180 ..but

Why would anybody need to kiss a vendors A**..with so many vendors and new products its the vendors who need to compete for our money..its not the consumer who needs to compete with vendors..i have purchased from a few sponsored vendors who have all been good but its AG who i make my purchases from due to the great promotions,discounts and Fantastic CS..



as for Justin ..his pics of his umpteen schmitts showed he was well compensated for his reviews..
 
Thank you I did my best in the review, as far as why would anybody kiss a vendors butt the answer would be to get free products. Like your self most of my products come from AG for the exact same reasons. Even more so they carry a wide array of product saving $$ on shipping. I guess I just don't see AG putting there rep on the line after establishing them selves as a strong honest customer friendly company.

Thats why I love you Dookie!
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There something you don't read every day lol.
 
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