A few thoughts about HD Speed

RZJZA80 - You had your answer right here, nearly 5 hours ago.



Dan said:
I've tried almost every quality AIO out there, nothing comes close to KAIO for cleaning ability. It is in a league of its own. M66 is the next closest in my book. D151 is a few rungs down from that.
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Thomas Dekany said:
My goodness!



You complain that SPEED doesn't cut with a finishing pad. My response: that you should use a finishing pad to FINISH. NOT to cut.



You don't like that answer. Sorry. I really am.



For the record, I am not trying to discredit you, but you seem to not understand some very basic detailing principals.



Finishing pads are for finishing, cutting pads are for leveling, cutting. It is as simple as that. In general, use a compound with cutting pad, final polish with the finishing pad.



AIO products are ALL IN ONE - meaning that the product will do a good job of all 3 (usually) steps it was designed to do. Clean well, Polish well, Protect well.



Using a finishing pad with an all in one product and expecting great leveling abilities leaves me with some questions.



If SPEED can't remove dead paint like KAIO, use KAIO and do an extra step with SPEED to get a better look. Your customers will appreciate it.
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That's all fine and good, and I fully understand what pad types are used for what purpose, and you trying to say I don't understand principals in insulting as best. You took a post about it's actual cleaning ability, which should be there even with a finishing pad (like other products called AIO), and want to just respond to it's cutting ability, which I quickly mentioned in my original post in ONE sentence. Even if it didn't have cut I wouldn't care, it's easy to use and provides a good shine, I only questioned the cleaning part. But it's fine, I'll figure it out. Thanks for the great info.
 
All I know is that speed leaves a stunning marr free finish that I am reluctant to top off because it might take away from the looks.
 
If KAIO removed the dead paint and SPEED didn't, KAIO is a better cleaner. Dan agreed with you, (unbiased since that is what you were asking for) yet now you want HD to reply with an answer?



Use what works. It is ok to try new products, but if it doesn't work for you, how can anyone tell you otherwise? I suggested to use a cutting pad to remove dead paint with SPEED. You said I am not being helpful, because KAIO can clean the paint with a finishing pad. How hard is it to figure it out? Stay with KAIO to remove dead paint.



As far as that "ONE sentence" - it is misinformation, and a very damaging one at that to 3D. Of course I make a big deal of it, I spent 2 HOT days testing it in the worst conditions. Not only did it worked, it worked better than I expected it. It CAN cut very well with the right tools. So when I read that someone writes that SPEED can only remove "very very light swirls" (your words), of course I am going to defend the product and the company I work for - because the info you provided is not true.

RZJZA80 said:
That's all fine and good, and I fully understand what pad types are used for what purpose, and you trying to say I don't understand principals in insulting as best. You took a post about it's actual cleaning ability, which should be there even with a finishing pad (like other products called AIO), and want to just respond to it's cutting ability, which I quickly mentioned in my original post in ONE sentence. Even if it didn't have cut I wouldn't care, it's easy to use and provides a good shine, I only questioned the cleaning part. But it's fine, I'll figure it out. Thanks for the great info.
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Let me see if I can put some figures to this...



KAIO:

Chemical cleaning ability:11

Polishing ability:0

Durability:2



Speed:

Chemical cleaning ability: 2ish? I dunno, I haven't used mine much

Polishing ability:4-6

Durability:Probably better than KAIO



KAIO can cut through oxidation with out any abrasives, it also is great on any sort of stuff stuck to your paint. You don't need abrasives to remove oxidation!
 
Thomas Dekany said:
If KAIO removed the dead paint and SPEED didn't, KAIO is a better cleaner. Dan agreed with you, (unbiased since that is what you were asking for) yet now you want HD to reply with an answer?



Use what works. It is ok to try new products, but if it doesn't work for you, how can anyone tell you otherwise? I suggested to use a cutting pad to remove dead paint with SPEED. You said I am not being helpful, because KAIO can clean the paint with a finishing pad. How hard is it to figure it out? Stay with KAIO to remove dead paint.



As far as that "ONE sentence" - it is misinformation, and a very damaging one at that to 3D. Of course I make a big deal of it, I spent 2 HOT days testing it in the worst conditions. Not only did it worked, it worked better than I expected it. It CAN cut very well with the right tools. So when I read that someone writes that SPEED can only remove "very very light swirls" (your words), of course I am going to defend the product and the company I work for - because the info you provided is not true.
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Now I thought it was advertised as having light cut. Misinformation seems to be in the eye of the beholder. To you it is, to me it's not. You've gotten good cut from it using cutting pads, that's great. I'm using it as it's advertised, and the name "Speed". If I'm going to use a cutting pad and multiple passes to achieve the results I want, I'll just use compound and cut down on the number of passes it would have to take. So, the info I provided is MY real world results, so no you can't simply say it's not true. Don't get me wrong, you're doing what an employee is supposed to do. But anyway, going back and forth isn't getting us anywhere.
 
Dan said:
Let me see if I can put some figures to this...



You don't need abrasives to remove oxidation!
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Thank you, that's what I've been asking all along. That's why I thought an AIO should be able to perform regardless of the pad used, as I always use soft finishing pads with Klasse.
 
On very oxidized cars, I'll use a polishing pad and KAIO or M66 to get down to the paint. The process works well for me as if I go straight to a compound or polish on oxidized paint, I gum up the pads frequently and it ends up being more work.



So I go KAIO on white. then clay, afterwards compound, then polish.



I'd also say that Speed indeed is an AIO and that KAIO isn't. AIO needs to clean, polish and protect. KAIO does not polish. KAIO is purely a chemical cleaner, that contains some protection. Could speed use a better cleaning formula, maybe for some people, but for me it really seems on par with Poliseal.
 
I did my Black 2011 Mazda3 a few weeks with HD Speed with a HD Green Cut/Polish pad voa PCXP at 4.5-5.

I've used DG501,Klasse, and Poli-Seal as well in the past. I like them all.



IMO

I felt HD Speed did a great job of cleaning and polishing the paint and on par with PS. I felt I could work faster with Speed vs the others and with good results.

My pad was very dirty afterwords. On par with what I've seen using DG501 and PS.



Also I didn't feel I needed to follow up with a finish pad with the swirl free finish Speed left. I did topped with POXY after wards to give it a nice wonderful wet glossy finish.

I'm no pro, it's more of a hobby for me. But I'm completely satisfied with the results Speed gave me. I've gotten great results from UNO,Poxy, Free, and Speed. No complaints at all from using any of the HD products which I'm using more than my Menz,OPT, and Megs stuff I have.



I liked HD Speed better because I could work it longer and felt it had better cut that DG501. It might not clean as well as DG but it was no slouch.



I'd rate them this way: best to worse IMO

CUT

1. Speed

2. PS

3. DG501

4.KAIO



Cleaning

1. KAIO

2. DG501

Tie - Speed and PS



Protection

1. DG501

2. Speed

3. PS

4. KAIO



Looks

1. Speed

2. DG501

3. PS

4. KAIO



Obviously product ability vary by use, climate, and user.

Each product has it's own variables on ability. (strengths and weaknesses)



They are all AIO's but give different results.
 
1st off, thanks for taking the time to try the product and post your support on this and all the other threads. It means alot to this forum that you are being as honest as possible in your search for the perfect product.:thumb: And trust me I know how hard that desire is to fill. However, products serve different purposes for different people, for different vehicles and for different expectations. And even though this one might not be exactly what you're looking for for this application, it certainly (as you stated) has great characteristics in its own right. I'll try to answer your orignal statements the best I can....



RZJZA80 said:
I've gone through almost an entire bottle of it, so I think my observations have some merit. First off, it does provide an amazing shine to any paint, and is very easy to use, a little goes a long way, and every other good thing said about it.
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Agreed. I'm just about done with my 1st bottle too! I've used it for light to moderate correction, gloss enhancement and as a quick maintenance 1 stepper.



RZJZA80 said:
Now for the uncertain part. I wanted Speed to replace Klasse for me, as they are both called AIO's. However, I've increasingly found that Speed doesn't have the cleaning ability that Klasse does, which was proved once again over this past weekend. A couple oxidized cars, Speed glossed them right up, but didn't get most of the oxidation off. I tried Klasse and it did the trick perfectly, so I'm wondering, is Speed really a true AIO? I know it's a good sealant/polish/very very light cut, but is it a cleaner also? I think it would have to be to be called an "AIO".
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Oh boy, it's been years since I've used KAIO so excuse me if I'm rusty. I remember it was all the rage many, many years ago. I just (personally) don't have a need for a dedicated paint cleaner on today's finishes. I have several approaches to tackling this workflow, and am not all that sure how SPEED would fit the bill in this arena? How ofter are we as detailers running into cars with heavy oxidation? And when doing so, are we reaching for a AIO, or a polishing compound?



And speaking of the term All In One(AIO), that can mean many things to many people. And I would like to interpret part of HD's vision/description of "SPEED as it being a finishing polish with having the 'ability' to perform moderate correction all while leaving a slick and protected finish behind".



RZJZA80 said:
Now for the bad. Four cars I've been keeping track of have reported back on durability. Two are daily drivers, and two are garage queens. The first daily, with Speed on it for two weeks now, reported back that it doesn't feel slick anymore, but it still has it's shine. Also, the beading when washed isn't as tight as two weeks ago. The second daily reported the same thing, except no beading to report of as it hasn't been washed. The two garage queens reported that the slickness feel is diminished, but not entirely gone, shine is still good, and no beading to report on since no washing has been done. Again, I was really hoping it would compete and replace with Klasse AIO here, and Klasse has lasted a very long time for me.
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Oh boy, that wasn't as bad as I thought! :) 1st off, keep in mind, that the slick feeling really isn't anything that gives truly any benefits other then to pacify the tactile nature of the end user. What you are basically feeling is the oil content residue left behind on the surface. That slick/oily finish is very short lived in all products and some great products don't even have that attribute in their chemistry. I know clients love the feel, but again, I would place my attention to other factors.



You claim the beading on one of the scenarios have me reaching out for more clarification....you stated (in your own words) that "the beading when washed isn't as tight as two weeks ago". And that it's a daily driver and SPEED has been on for 2 weeks. That would mean (now check my math) that this person washed their car almost immediatley after you detailed it? Is there any way that disturbed the cross-linking of the product? And what wash soap are they using? The reason I ask is because soap can play a major role in the beading effect and its longevity. You could have 2 identical cars with the identical protectant applied, but wash with 2 soaps and have 2 separate beading characteristics. (and not to go off on a tangent, but HD is working on their release of a dedicated shampoo designed exclusively for mainting the integrity of their protectant's chemistry - stay tuned).





RZJZA80 said:
My main thing so far is the cleaning ability. In another thread of mine here, someone mentioned that Speed didn't perform well because the car had DG Aquawax on it, applied a month previous to the Speed application. That got me thinking that, if true, Speed is not a true AIO as cleaning is part of an AIO, and if it can't even clean off month old Aquawax, it can't clean much of anything else either. Also, as far as cut goes, the only real cut I'm seeing is when I use Speed with a cutting pad. When I use it with a finishing pad, there is no real cut that I can see.
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Again, this goes back to the interpretation of an AIO. And there are many variables that can go into how well a product and/or pad combination can perform on certain paints, with certain products/things remaining on the surface that could play a role in their performance. I've seen SPEED perform incredible results with their Green polishing pad on solid black single stage paint that had some light oxidation/hazing and moderate swirls. Keep in mind that the entire car was also polished in 85 degree full Florida sun. I'm not certain how many other products (and even AIOs) would do in that category?
 
David, thanks for the responses, you make a lot of good points. Concerning the beading and what was used, I'm not sure exactly, I didn't wash it after the Speed was applied. I just asked them to report back their findings from time to time to let me know about the durability and beading characteristics. The only way to know is to go look at it myself but that won't be anytime soon.



Thomas, I've been the opposite I guess in my use of AIO's. I generally use a finishing pad with Klasse, and allow the cleaning agents to do the work, not so much the pad itself, that way making sure I don't marr the paint in the process with the pad (depending on the paint of course).
 
SVR said:
the msds of Speed has me intrigued. montanic acid ester and polydimethylsiloxane will definately give a great gloss but it's not true gloss (correct me if Im wrong)

and abrasives mixed with that. I am a polish then protect guy, not both in the one product



http://www.3dproducts.com/memberfiles/MSDS/425-HD-SPEED.pdf
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You are right, it is not a "true" gloss. But then again, (and this is just my opinion), Speed seems more geared towards the express side.



Different strokes...
 
SVR said:
the msds of Speed has me intrigued. montanic acid ester and polydimethylsiloxane will definately give a great gloss but it's not true gloss (correct me if Im wrong)

and abrasives mixed with that. I am a polish then protect guy, not both in the one product



http://www.3dproducts.com/memberfiles/MSDS/425-HD-SPEED.pdf
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A lot of folks don't want a full polish job, and frankly it's lost on 99% of the public who just want a glossy car. They will promptly re-swirl the car at the next wash, so as long as you are honest about the service you provide, it's a win-win. I personally love stuff that fills as I don't waste my life chasing swirls.
 
SVR said:
the msds of Speed has me intrigued. montanic acid ester and polydimethylsiloxane will definately give a great gloss but it's not true gloss (correct me if Im wrong)

and abrasives mixed with that. I am a polish then protect guy, not both in the one product



http://www.3dproducts.com/memberfiles/MSDS/425-HD-SPEED.pdf
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Now that's interesting. Not being a chemist, what other products have the same things in them? The ingredients mean what exactly? What does "not a true gloss" mean?
 
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