Ron Ketcham
Active member
Not really
Much more to it than how shiny the paint you see looks.
Much more to it than how shiny the paint you see looks.
6 years of payments---Reg washing and LSP`s will stop it becoming a rust bucket?
- Thread starter Ron Ketcham
- Start date
Ron Ketcham
Active member
See my other post.
Ron:
Captain Obvious here sticking my nose where it does not belong (so what else is new?!)
I assume your succinct answer is to the age-old question of, "What do I need to do to keep up the appearance of my vehicle and keep it from rusting out before the 6-year loan payments (72 months) are done?"
Here are some of my smart-behind, snide and sarcastic, Captain Obvious answers to that question:
1) Don`t drive it in the winter on roads where salt is used OR live in such areas of the North America where such winter conditions exists
2) Don`t live in any area that has salt-water nearby (AKA, Atlantic or Pacific ocean coast or Gulf of Mexico Coast or Utah`s Great Salt Lake)
3) Lease the vehicle for three years or less for about the same payment as the loan. (Hard to do for a salesperson or company rep who drives 30,000 miles a year or the person who has long commutes to an "essential Job" in manufacturing or construction or service that cannot be done "virtually", which why they had to take out a loan to BUY a certified previously-owned (AKA, used) vehicle and could not lease it)
4) Power wash the under carriage with de-ionized water ONLY on a weekly basis religiously (Again hard to do when on the road or in the winter in sub-zero weather
5) Carpool (Notice I did not mention hitch-hiking. When was the last time you saw someone hitch-hiking during this COVID pandemic.)
6) Use public transportation or ride a bicycle to work when possible (Again hard to do in the winter or for long commutes over 10 miles or if you live in the middle of nowhere out in the sticks or boonies where there is no "public" and you like it that way!)
7) Drive a well-used vehicle that doesn`t cost much (one year`s worth of payments) and looks like crap anyway and don`t worry about it or buy a decent senior citizen`s vehicle at an estate sale or auction at a bargain price. (Right place at the right time at the right price. AKA, Lucky)
Captain Obvious here sticking my nose where it does not belong (so what else is new?!)
I assume your succinct answer is to the age-old question of, "What do I need to do to keep up the appearance of my vehicle and keep it from rusting out before the 6-year loan payments (72 months) are done?"
Here are some of my smart-behind, snide and sarcastic, Captain Obvious answers to that question:
1) Don`t drive it in the winter on roads where salt is used OR live in such areas of the North America where such winter conditions exists
2) Don`t live in any area that has salt-water nearby (AKA, Atlantic or Pacific ocean coast or Gulf of Mexico Coast or Utah`s Great Salt Lake)
3) Lease the vehicle for three years or less for about the same payment as the loan. (Hard to do for a salesperson or company rep who drives 30,000 miles a year or the person who has long commutes to an "essential Job" in manufacturing or construction or service that cannot be done "virtually", which why they had to take out a loan to BUY a certified previously-owned (AKA, used) vehicle and could not lease it)
4) Power wash the under carriage with de-ionized water ONLY on a weekly basis religiously (Again hard to do when on the road or in the winter in sub-zero weather
5) Carpool (Notice I did not mention hitch-hiking. When was the last time you saw someone hitch-hiking during this COVID pandemic.)
6) Use public transportation or ride a bicycle to work when possible (Again hard to do in the winter or for long commutes over 10 miles or if you live in the middle of nowhere out in the sticks or boonies where there is no "public" and you like it that way!)
7) Drive a well-used vehicle that doesn`t cost much (one year`s worth of payments) and looks like crap anyway and don`t worry about it or buy a decent senior citizen`s vehicle at an estate sale or auction at a bargain price. (Right place at the right time at the right price. AKA, Lucky)
Desertnate
Active member
Not sure what started this, but I`ll play along. Interesting discussion.
To go with Lonnie`s inputs. I`d be willing to say an LSP will only SLOW the progression of surface rust from things like really deep scratches or rock chips which go through the primer. The cars I`ve seen which would meet my definition of a "rust bucket" rusted away from the inside/underside around the wheel wheels, somewhere along the frame/unibody/body (i.e. frame rails or floor panels), or the rocker panels. None of those are places where you apply an LSP.
I`d also go so far as to say the LSP will greatly slow the breakdown of the clearcoat (as long as you don`t polish it all off) and preserve the surface. I saw this first hand while living in Hawaii. The sun and salt are brutal there and the cars where owners actually tried to take care of them and apply an LSP of some form were noticeably in better shape than those which were neglected. I was shocked to see GM and Honda vehicles only 3~5 years old with severe clear coat failure. Others had it too, but those two makers seemed to suffer earlier than others I observed.
To go with Lonnie`s inputs. I`d be willing to say an LSP will only SLOW the progression of surface rust from things like really deep scratches or rock chips which go through the primer. The cars I`ve seen which would meet my definition of a "rust bucket" rusted away from the inside/underside around the wheel wheels, somewhere along the frame/unibody/body (i.e. frame rails or floor panels), or the rocker panels. None of those are places where you apply an LSP.
I`d also go so far as to say the LSP will greatly slow the breakdown of the clearcoat (as long as you don`t polish it all off) and preserve the surface. I saw this first hand while living in Hawaii. The sun and salt are brutal there and the cars where owners actually tried to take care of them and apply an LSP of some form were noticeably in better shape than those which were neglected. I was shocked to see GM and Honda vehicles only 3~5 years old with severe clear coat failure. Others had it too, but those two makers seemed to suffer earlier than others I observed.
Bill D
Hooked For Life
I see Hondas here in FL with failed clear and it makes me cringe compared to mine which still looks better than factory after 10 years now.
I guess this is a compliment to Honda - the paint will fail from neglect before the rest of the car will fail for the same reason.
Not that a 10 year old car HAS to look like this in FLA, but too many people have the idea that the car is just another appliance.
One other aspect is the design of the vehicle itself, more specifically how a uni-body is attached to modern vehicle frame, how body panels are made or shaped, and their location on the vehicle itself. Folds in sheet metal lips on wheel well arches or lower door panels just seem (no pun intended!) to retain winter salt brine and road debris.
I cannot stress as well the need to keep drip water drains in sheet metal panels clean to allow them to work as designed. There SO many places for these drains that car owners forget about, giving evidence to the adage "Out of sight, out of mind." If you park your vehicle outside in a wooded area or drive on dirt roads or off-road on a regular basis (like here in "the sticks" of Northeast Wisconsin), these drains tend to get clogged rather easily. Drains are located in:
1) All side door, rear hatch, or trunk panels, usually on the front and/or back lower corners
2) Gas filler neck near the bottom of the gas cap
3) Front cowl by the lower windshield ends on both sides
4) Rear hatch or trunk sill/gutter on both side, usually by the tail-light housings
5) Front fender near the the bottom where it meets the front door on both sides. Might even be an extension from the cowl area mentioned above.
I take a garden hose with a spray nozzle set to a jet stream and flush out that area on vehicle washes at least twice a year (early spring/late fall). Yes, it splashes water everywhere if the water-source pressure is higher, but you`d be surprised at how much gunk/crud/debris washes out of that area.
I use tweezers to pull out old leaf stems, small twigs, and grass clippings that get embedded or stuck in those drains.
Vans with passenger sliding doors gather a lot of sand, silt, and gravel detritus (small rocks or stones) in the bottom body sill area where the door support and slide mechanism is housed. I take a larger long-handled artist`s brush and try to brush areas where it gathers as I vacuum with a skinny nozzle to remove that sand. I do this before the washing to keep it from turning to mud.
Another area that get a lot of dirt trapped is door seals or weatherstripping itself next to the body. I take an old microfiber or shop paper paper (thick heavy-duty blue stuff) soaked in APC (Megs D101 or Optimum Power Clean) and force it between the seal and body to try to get out dirt that gets embedded in that area. if I cannot reach far enough in, I use a cotton swab (Q-Tip) soaked in APC to remove the debris. Works well on the seal itself if it has a deep track or recess. All part of being an Obsessive-Compulsive Detailer.
I cannot stress as well the need to keep drip water drains in sheet metal panels clean to allow them to work as designed. There SO many places for these drains that car owners forget about, giving evidence to the adage "Out of sight, out of mind." If you park your vehicle outside in a wooded area or drive on dirt roads or off-road on a regular basis (like here in "the sticks" of Northeast Wisconsin), these drains tend to get clogged rather easily. Drains are located in:
1) All side door, rear hatch, or trunk panels, usually on the front and/or back lower corners
2) Gas filler neck near the bottom of the gas cap
3) Front cowl by the lower windshield ends on both sides
4) Rear hatch or trunk sill/gutter on both side, usually by the tail-light housings
5) Front fender near the the bottom where it meets the front door on both sides. Might even be an extension from the cowl area mentioned above.
I take a garden hose with a spray nozzle set to a jet stream and flush out that area on vehicle washes at least twice a year (early spring/late fall). Yes, it splashes water everywhere if the water-source pressure is higher, but you`d be surprised at how much gunk/crud/debris washes out of that area.
I use tweezers to pull out old leaf stems, small twigs, and grass clippings that get embedded or stuck in those drains.
Vans with passenger sliding doors gather a lot of sand, silt, and gravel detritus (small rocks or stones) in the bottom body sill area where the door support and slide mechanism is housed. I take a larger long-handled artist`s brush and try to brush areas where it gathers as I vacuum with a skinny nozzle to remove that sand. I do this before the washing to keep it from turning to mud.
Another area that get a lot of dirt trapped is door seals or weatherstripping itself next to the body. I take an old microfiber or shop paper paper (thick heavy-duty blue stuff) soaked in APC (Megs D101 or Optimum Power Clean) and force it between the seal and body to try to get out dirt that gets embedded in that area. if I cannot reach far enough in, I use a cotton swab (Q-Tip) soaked in APC to remove the debris. Works well on the seal itself if it has a deep track or recess. All part of being an Obsessive-Compulsive Detailer.
Dan
Well-known member
Depends on the car brand. Some look amazing after a decade or two with neglect others look like S after 3 or 4 years.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Do like Lonnie does! Just cleaning things whenever they get salty can make a huge diff (my Tahoe is a perfect example, and it had rust when I got it...NEVER got worse despite over a dozen winters now. Heh heh, and people snicker at the way I obsess over cleaning every square centimeter at every wash 
And then there`re ones like that Mazda MPV I had...rotted away from the inside, even in areas that never got salt. Crappy build-quality can undo even the best efforts.
Oh, and surface rust can indeed be something that doesn`t ever get serious. E.g., the Tahoe which has quite a bit of it including the *entire* frame (not a *BIT* worse after so many winters), and I had surface-rusted chips on the Jag that stayed OK for decades (until my painter couldn`t stand them and fixed `em for free, which actually [ticked] me off). Keep it clean and dry and it won`t progress, or at least that`s been my experience. But then...how many hours do you really want to spend doing areas that nobody sees? Pick your battles.
I`d expect any remotely decent autopaint to last indefinitely with the proper care. I`ve simply *NEVER* had any paint actually fail. Not once and I`ve had dozens of cars over many decades. Wash/wax/repeat.
And then there`re ones like that Mazda MPV I had...rotted away from the inside, even in areas that never got salt. Crappy build-quality can undo even the best efforts.
Oh, and surface rust can indeed be something that doesn`t ever get serious. E.g., the Tahoe which has quite a bit of it including the *entire* frame (not a *BIT* worse after so many winters), and I had surface-rusted chips on the Jag that stayed OK for decades (until my painter couldn`t stand them and fixed `em for free, which actually [ticked] me off). Keep it clean and dry and it won`t progress, or at least that`s been my experience. But then...how many hours do you really want to spend doing areas that nobody sees? Pick your battles.
I`d expect any remotely decent autopaint to last indefinitely with the proper care. I`ve simply *NEVER* had any paint actually fail. Not once and I`ve had dozens of cars over many decades. Wash/wax/repeat.
Dan
Well-known member
Accumulator, you raise a good point. It`s a shame the Asian makes are so prone to rust. My Tundra frame was getting like your Tahoe after 5 or so years and I did my best to keep it clean. I sold that truck because I couldn`t stand to look at it. It annoys me so bad that they can`t galvanize the frame and body.
Conversely I`ve had Audis and MBs that live it the NE that looked amazing after ten years. My current ML has zero rust. Even all the fasteners look pristine. I`d think it was babied but the trailer hitch was not made by MB and it looked like it spent ten years in salt before I repainted it.
Conversely I`ve had Audis and MBs that live it the NE that looked amazing after ten years. My current ML has zero rust. Even all the fasteners look pristine. I`d think it was babied but the trailer hitch was not made by MB and it looked like it spent ten years in salt before I repainted it.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Dan- Yep, same experiences here all-around.
When I got the `93 Audi, the original owner`s (understandable and justified) neglect had resulted in the brake and fuel lines actually *rusting through* to the point that it was leaking raw gasoline and brake fluid. BUT...the rest of the car was rust-free under there and easily cleaned up just like a showcar.
When I got the `93 Audi, the original owner`s (understandable and justified) neglect had resulted in the brake and fuel lines actually *rusting through* to the point that it was leaking raw gasoline and brake fluid. BUT...the rest of the car was rust-free under there and easily cleaned up just like a showcar.