3M SMR and a black car

carguy said:
peiqinglong and I have connected and he is on his way to my house. We start @ 6PM PST. In my arsenal are:



3M SMR for Dark finish

meguiars #9 SMR 2.0

3m finesse-it II finishing compound

3m Perfect-It II fine cut rubbing compound



Plus various and sundry other goodies. We'll see what we can do. I won't have time to do his whole car, but we'll discover what works. If it is so bad I don't think I can do anything I will recommend he get a pro rotary buff-out, of course. We'll keep you posted.



Oh - and I suspect there will be another Souveran fan momentarily (we won't have time to put any other sort of wax on anyway!)
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WOW....alll I can say is WOW! :bow :bow Greg :bow :bow you are the man!!! Everybody, this guy is absolutely fabulous! I thought there was no hope for my car, but he has so restored faith! I am very fortunate to meet a person so kind and willing to put time out of his busy schedule to meet with me and show me what i was doing wrong. Once again, thank you Greg you are a life savor! This guy showed me so many tips and tricks, he could have sure fooled me if he told me he was a professional detailer. Wow, this guy has tried everything and has developed an award winning technique that has made me a believer and follower!



P.S. His 996 is absolutely stunningly beautiful! Not a swirl or scratch to be found on his entire car!



Well as for what we did and the results...Greg started off with some :bow 3m Finesse-It II. That stuff works wonders! With just one application, he was able to eliminate 90% of the swirls and hazings! The second time pretty much wiped out any remaining swirls and hazing and left us with the scratch marks that were disguising itself as swirl and hazes. For that, Greg used the Meguiar's #9. Worked beautifully! He then applied Meguiar's #7, which I personally didn't think it did much since the the #9 and the 3m Finesse it II pretty much did most if not all of the job. And Greg is right, I am now a fan of :bow Souveran! It's so easy to apply and wipe off. That stuff is so amazing, no need for extra additives or waiting time like Zaino and Klasse requires. I am now a fan of Meguiars, 3M Finesse it, and Pinnacle Sourveran! Now all I need to do is go and buy these stuff, practice Greg's technique and tips, and I am all set for restoring my car to "better-than-when-I-bought-it" condition. Pics are below...



Pic 1

Pic 2

Pic 3

Pic 4

Pic 5

Pic 6



Nothing is better than black on black on black on black!



Pic 1

Pic 2

Pic 3

Pic 4



Thank you everyone for your help, especially you Greg!
 
I love happy endings :xyxthumbs :bow !!



P.S. To further develop your detailing arsenal, take a look at the Autopia Guide to Detailing (and purchase it while you can for a discount). You'll be glad you did.
 
Gatorfan said:
I love happy endings :xyxthumbs :bow !!



P.S. To further develop your detailing arsenal, take a look at the Autopia Guide to Detailing (and purchase it while you can for a discount). You'll be glad you did.
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I will definitely consider that!
 
You're welcome - it was nice to meet you and I'm glad I could help. I enjoy the work, the learning, and the teaching. Take your time on the rest - do a panel at a time - and let's see some more pics as you go!



Just to clarify, the first pic you posted was after the FI-II only, right? And then I think pic 4 was probably later - post glaze or even post-wax. Pics 5 and 6 were after we opened the garage door and let some natural light back in. right?



Cheers!
 
carguy said:
to clarify, the first pic you posted was after the FI-II only, right? And then I think pic 4 was probably later - post glaze or even post-wax. Pics 5 and 6 were after we opened the garage door and let some natural light back in. right?



Cheers!
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That is correct! I will definitely post pics once I am absolutely done!
 
man, that is some excellent work greg. when u say u worked it in for a LONG time, about how long is long. I always get hazing with FI2, could u please elaborate on your technique?
 
AlBoston said:
man, that is some excellent work greg. when u say u worked it in for a LONG time, about how long is long. I always get hazing with FI2, could u please elaborate on your technique?
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Al - I use about 4 nickel diameter drops of FI-II on a cutting pad for an area the size of 1/4 hood, half a coupe door, a whole sedan door - about as much as I like to work at once. PC on 6. Put it on the panel and turn on the PC. Rapidly distribute the material to the entire section you plan to work. Now go back and start working it - begin with firm pressure at least 10 lbs. You should hear the PC motor slow down, maybe by 25%. Maintain this pressure and move slowly (no more than an inch per second, preferably less) over the surface, overlapping the previous pass by half a pad diameter. I usually go in one direction across the entire surface, then change to 90 degrees to that - just to help me see where I've been. On Richard's car I probably did this for 10 minutes or more for the first FI-II pass. The material begins to dry out, and you start to get an accumulation of white powder. Work it some more. When it is really dry, reduce the pressure - if the PC is on your hood, back off to 1/2 of what you were using so there is a small load on the motor, make some more passes. Then more with no pressure, just the weight of the PC. Then still more while you support half the weight. By this time the material is almost gone, and as you move you often leave behind areas that look fully buffed out. You can move the PC faster on these last stages - maybe 3 inches per second. Do NOT add more FI-II - you'll just ruin all the breaking-down and polishing you did.



Stop, buff off and inspect. I find FI-II residue is "sticky" - so I use lots of detail spray to aid in wiping it off. If you still have a lot of SCRATCHES left, use 4 more dollops and repeat the entire process above. If you have any HAZE left (Haze is caused by scratches too fine to see with the naked eye) then you didn't work it hard enough. I do find that there is sometimes a slight un-evenness to the look, with sections looking SLIGHTLY hazy - don't worry, this will go away when you follow it up w/ SMR. Every car I've done has been a little different. Best case, when you're done with the FI-II it is ready to wax. But I think SMR or at least a non-abraisve polish like some of the Meguiar's products will help even out the look.
 
awesome! so you keep it cranked up at 6 the whole time? Also, how long do u think it took to do the whole section, u said 10 minutes at 10 pounds pressure, so about 15 minutes total? Damn thats a lot of break down time! I thought 3 minutes was long enough!!:)
 
I think I put an hour into the door alone. The FI-II/rubbing compound is the hardest, longest - probably took 30 minutes. You also want to work the SMR hard - its fillers will hide it well if you do less, but you won't really be leveraging its super-fine abrasives. The glaze and wax of course are just "work it in, wipe it off" and go very quickly. The longer you work those others, the better results you''' get - the abrasives just get finer and finer until they're effectively all gone - at which point you might not be doing any more good, but you're not doing harm. Stopping early is bad.



But I have a bad memory and wasn't thinking much about the time (remember, step #1 is always "remove your watch!"). Richard - do you think that is about how long it took?
 
I'm impressed carguy. I've just purchased a 2002 Altima 3.5 SE. (Sheer Silver) I'm new at this detailing idea (just washed my other cars). I hope to learn alot at this site from you and others on how to keep the new car looking new as long as possible.
 
carguy said:
I think I put an hour into the door alone. The FI-II/rubbing compound is the hardest, longest - probably took 30 minutes. You also want to work the SMR hard - its fillers will hide it well if you do less, but you won't really be leveraging its super-fine abrasives. The glaze and wax of course are just "work it in, wipe it off" and go very quickly. The longer you work those others, the better results you''' get - the abrasives just get finer and finer until they're effectively all gone - at which point you might not be doing any more good, but you're not doing harm. Stopping early is bad.



But I have a bad memory and wasn't thinking much about the time (remember, step #1 is always "remove your watch!"). Richard - do you think that is about how long it took?
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Total process? It took about 2hrs from inspection to completion. As far as using the 3M Finesse...that I believe was the longest. Applying the Pinnacle was a matter of like minutes and the Meguiar's #9 took a bit, but the 2 coats of 3m was the longest process.
 
im-kruzin said:
I'm impressed carguy. I've just purchased a 2002 Altima 3.5 SE. (Sheer Silver) I'm new at this detailing idea (just washed my other cars). I hope to learn alot at this site from you and others on how to keep the new car looking new as long as possible.
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Carguy is a person you should definitely keep up with, he is very helpful and informative! Oh by the way...welcome.



Richard
 
Helpful thread. What are some common errors that might occur when using SMR with a PC? What precautions should be taken? Is SMR aggressive enough to get out light scrathes with multiple applications - newbie scared to use something more aggressive. Can I do any damage to my black 911C2. Both your car look awesome.
 
Steve - from the "964" in your name I assume you have an older Porsche? Does it have clear coat over the black?



If it DOES, then yes, SMRs with the PC are pretty safe. 3M "Swirl Mark remover for dark finish cars" will remove scratches a little better than Meguiars' #9 swirl remover 2.0, but is less forgiving.



In either case, the common mistake is to stop too soon, see some hazing (much more likely with the 3M) and so apply MORE product and try again. The problem is that you didn't let the abrasives break down enough with the first application. As it comes out of the bottle, it WILL leave some hazing on black. It will be invisible with the Meguiar's because that product has some really great fillers. But once they wash away.... In either case, adding more liquid only adds more "full size" abrasive, which is sized to get rid of the scratches but will leave haze. It is like sanding with 400 sandpaper, which gets rid of scratches you put in with 200 grit, but leaves finer scratches in their place, which you then go after with 600, etc. (*The products we're talking about here are finer than that, but the principle still applies. )



UNLIKE sandpaper, though, these products have "diminishing abrasives". You start with (say) 1200 grit, which gets rid of swirls and leaves a haze, but you keep rubbing and rubbing without adding more compound and the abrasive particles wear down to 1500, then 2000, etc. Pretty soon they're as fine as rouge or some other polish that is so fine it polishes the haze out and leaves the finish looking good.



As long as you understand this you should get good results. You really can't hurt your car with the PC unless you drop it on the hood. You can NOT generate enough heat to "burn" the paint, unlike a rotary buffer.
 
carguy said:
Steve - from the "964" in your name I assume you have an older Porsche? Does it have clear coat over the black?



If it DOES, then yes, SMRs with the PC are pretty safe. 3M "Swirl Mark remover for dark finish cars" will remove scratches a little better than Meguiars' #9 swirl remover 2.0, but is less forgiving.



In either case, the common mistake is to stop too soon, see some hazing (much more likely with the 3M) and so apply MORE product and try again. The problem is that you didn't let the abrasives break down enough with the first application. As it comes out of the bottle, it WILL leave some hazing on black. It will be invisible with the Meguiar's because that product has some really great fillers. But once they wash away.... In either case, adding more liquid only adds more "full size" abrasive, which is sized to get rid of the scratches but will leave haze. It is like sanding with 400 sandpaper, which gets rid of scratches you put in with 200 grit, but leaves finer scratches in their place, which you then go after with 600, etc. (*The products we're talking about here are finer than that, but the principle still applies. )



UNLIKE sandpaper, though, these products have "diminishing abrasives". You start with (say) 1200 grit, which gets rid of swirls and leaves a haze, but you keep rubbing and rubbing without adding more compound and the abrasive particles wear down to 1500, then 2000, etc. Pretty soon they're as fine as rouge or some other polish that is so fine it polishes the haze out and leaves the finish looking good.



As long as you understand this you should get good results. You really can't hurt your car with the PC unless you drop it on the hood. You can NOT generate enough heat to "burn" the paint, unlike a rotary buffer.
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man, buffing that long how many pads do u go through to do a whole car?? BTW which pad were u using on that BLack acura.
 
AlBoston said:






man, buffing that long how many pads do u go through to do a whole car?? BTW which pad were u using on that BLack acura.
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Well let's put it this way...he told me to start stocking up on the cutting pads...:D
 
AlBoston said:
man, buffing that long how many pads do u go through to do a whole car?? BTW which pad were u using on that BLack acura.
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A whole car as bad as this one could be done with a single pad. But if the pad was older to start with, and had been through the wash a few times, it would probably fail before the end of the job.
 
Since we have a group that likes 3M products here, I would like to suggest one I haven't seenmentioned. 3M Foam Polishing Pad Glaze and Swirl Remover (in this case for Dark Cars). It is 3M's latest generation from a company that makes excellent glazes.



I had a dark red car with some scratches. I used the fine cut cleaner, followed by the foam polishing Pad Glaze, and it actually got the scratches out. It is a fine grit, and I now like it even better than Imperial Hand or machine Glaze.
 
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