armoredsaint
New member
Excellent Mike, much appreciated. #34 is an awesome QD IMO, doesn't leave the residue like other QDs that cause a holographic effect on my black TT, but I do love the smell!
#34 Final Inspection?
- Thread starter armoredsaint
- Start date
SilverLexus
Super Enthusiast
I like #34 as well.
Mike,
Can you please PM about where to find NXT Wash? I'm having trouble finding it locally.
Thanks!
Mike,
Can you please PM about where to find NXT Wash? I'm having trouble finding it locally.
Thanks!
Bill D
Hooked For Life
I saw NXT wash once in a very well stocked Walmart but I usually see in most major chain auto parts stores
Mike_Phillips
Administrator
jmsc said:
The ingredients listed in the MSD sheets for Quik Detailer and for Final Inspection that may be confused by some as alcohol are, Propylene Glycol and Propylene Glycol Ether.
I e-mailed one of our chemists the comments from this thread last Saturday and here is his response back to me this morning,
Meguiar's chemists are sharp, it's a real pleasure to work with all of them, I especially like working with the head chemist and the young chemist, (at least he's younger than me). They're both die-hard car nuts. Any ingredient that they include in a formula has to perform one or both of the below functions,
A) Benefit the surface to which it is applied
B) Benefit the user
Hope this helps...
Mike
MattZ28
New member
Alright, so it is a safe product to use on an almost-daily basis? It won't harm the layer of wax at all?
imported_memnuts
New member
I own and use #34 (FI) and will continue to do so but I must respectfully dispute your explaination of the uses and consequences of Propylene Glycol and Propylene Glycol Ether in this product verses their Ethyl cousins in relation to the question asked: Will FI dissolve a sealant / resin/ wax because of its cleaning agent(s).
Both E (ethyl) and P(propyl) may be found as components of custom cleaner chemistries. In our case we are talking about using FI as a QD.
The most commonly and widely used E-series (ethyl) glycol ethers for cleaning products have been replaced with P-series (propyl) glycol ethers when used in cleaner formulations. They offer performance that is comparable to and in some cases greater than, the E-series products with low toxicity and almost no odor.
Tests indicate that propylene glycol butyl ether cleans as well as or better than ethylene glycol butyl ether, cuts grease better, is compatible with many components of cleaning products, and has a lower toxicity profile.
In other words both family of glycols, E and P perform the same function - cleaning. The P's are less toxic to the liver, kidneys and testes.
I agree that these ingredients:
A) Benefit the surface to which it is applied - cleans
B) Benefit the user - low toxicity
But still unanswered is the question about these compounds dissolving a sealant that is venerable to alcohol dissolution (i.e Klasse, Zaino, WG, etc).
The poster's initial question is still unanswered.
Will FI dissolve a sealant because of its alcohol (-OH)/gycol( -CH2-OH/ether (-CH2-O-CH2-)components. :nixweiss
When is too much knowledge actually a decrement? :nixweiss
This is not a flame or a stage for an arguement but a stepping off point for further discussion. Maybe there is a reason why certain sealant producers recommend certain QD's for their products ( ie Zaino / Z6 and Klasse/ Sonus) and hesistate or discourage other formulation.:wavey
Both E (ethyl) and P(propyl) may be found as components of custom cleaner chemistries. In our case we are talking about using FI as a QD.
The most commonly and widely used E-series (ethyl) glycol ethers for cleaning products have been replaced with P-series (propyl) glycol ethers when used in cleaner formulations. They offer performance that is comparable to and in some cases greater than, the E-series products with low toxicity and almost no odor.
Tests indicate that propylene glycol butyl ether cleans as well as or better than ethylene glycol butyl ether, cuts grease better, is compatible with many components of cleaning products, and has a lower toxicity profile.
In other words both family of glycols, E and P perform the same function - cleaning. The P's are less toxic to the liver, kidneys and testes.
I agree that these ingredients:
A) Benefit the surface to which it is applied - cleans
B) Benefit the user - low toxicity
But still unanswered is the question about these compounds dissolving a sealant that is venerable to alcohol dissolution (i.e Klasse, Zaino, WG, etc).
The poster's initial question is still unanswered.
Will FI dissolve a sealant because of its alcohol (-OH)/gycol( -CH2-OH/ether (-CH2-O-CH2-)components. :nixweiss
When is too much knowledge actually a decrement? :nixweiss
This is not a flame or a stage for an arguement but a stepping off point for further discussion. Maybe there is a reason why certain sealant producers recommend certain QD's for their products ( ie Zaino / Z6 and Klasse/ Sonus) and hesistate or discourage other formulation.:wavey
Accumulator
Well-known member
OK- So it's *not* alcohol. Some of the things we laymen say must make chemists and other knowledgeable people just 
Still, I too would appreciate some additional information/clarification. Is the "do not behave as the alcohol they are referring to" the chemist's way of saying it will not degrade LSPs? Perhaps I'm just after a more explicitly yes/no answer than the chemist felt necessary.
Again, in my experience, there seemed to be a definite loss of LSP with continued use of #34. Perhaps there was something unique to my situation, but it's one of those cases where I know what I experienced and it wasn't something subtle. This was something anyone would notice, comparing adjacent panels where one was just done with #34 and the other was not. But FWIW, it only happened when the LSP was nearing the end of its "lifetime" anyhow.
Still, I too would appreciate some additional information/clarification. Is the "do not behave as the alcohol they are referring to" the chemist's way of saying it will not degrade LSPs? Perhaps I'm just after a more explicitly yes/no answer than the chemist felt necessary.
Again, in my experience, there seemed to be a definite loss of LSP with continued use of #34. Perhaps there was something unique to my situation, but it's one of those cases where I know what I experienced and it wasn't something subtle. This was something anyone would notice, comparing adjacent panels where one was just done with #34 and the other was not. But FWIW, it only happened when the LSP was nearing the end of its "lifetime" anyhow.
imported_memnuts
New member
Propylene Glycol is in the alcohol family of fluids. Therefore, FI contains an alcohol.
The question is are these fluids ( alcohol and esters) in concentrations used in FI enough to remove completely or incrementally a sealant from a paint finish. Leading to a decreased lifespan at the expense of a quick cleaning. :nixweiss
The question is are these fluids ( alcohol and esters) in concentrations used in FI enough to remove completely or incrementally a sealant from a paint finish. Leading to a decreased lifespan at the expense of a quick cleaning. :nixweiss
Mike_Phillips
Administrator
Oh boy, you guys on Autopia really like to get technical...
That's OK, anyone that knows me, or has watched me detail a car knows I get just as AR as the next guy if not more...
So the question is,
The answer from Meguiar's FAQ,
*******************
2. Do either Final Inspection or Quik Detailer remove wax?
No.
Both are designed to add gloss and to prolong the life of your wax by safely removing fresh contaminants before they can bond to your finish or corrode your coating of wax.
*******************
I can't really take up a lot of R&D's time, there comes a point to where they can appreciate peoples interest in the tiniest details in products and process, but at the same time, they do have full plates so to speak. That said, I did check with R&D on this and this is what they said,
Meguiar's quick detailers have been thoroughly tested and used well over twenty years without any complaints or problems of wax interference. Yes, there are quick detailers on the market that contain similar cleaners that when not properly formulated could remove the protective wax finish, even with just one application. Meguiar's products are tested and proven.
An Analogy in you will allow, in the same way that Meguiar's petroleum distillates are,
* Environmentally Safe
* Contain No Aromatic Hydrocarbons
* Contain No other Serious Air Pollutants
They are also distilled multiple times to remove:
* Carcinogens
* Reproductive Toxins
* Multiple other Impurities
I am positive that any ingredient Meguiar's uses in any of their formula's follows these same types of criteria in that the ingredients are the best of their kind available to get the job done, preserve the surface, and add beauty. Sometimes you just have to decide whether or not your going to put your trust in a company's product, or not.
Does this help?
Mike
That's OK, anyone that knows me, or has watched me detail a car knows I get just as AR as the next guy if not more...
So the question is,
blkZ28Conv said:
The answer from Meguiar's FAQ,
*******************
2. Do either Final Inspection or Quik Detailer remove wax?
No.
Both are designed to add gloss and to prolong the life of your wax by safely removing fresh contaminants before they can bond to your finish or corrode your coating of wax.
*******************
I can't really take up a lot of R&D's time, there comes a point to where they can appreciate peoples interest in the tiniest details in products and process, but at the same time, they do have full plates so to speak. That said, I did check with R&D on this and this is what they said,
Meguiar's quick detailers have been thoroughly tested and used well over twenty years without any complaints or problems of wax interference. Yes, there are quick detailers on the market that contain similar cleaners that when not properly formulated could remove the protective wax finish, even with just one application. Meguiar's products are tested and proven.
An Analogy in you will allow, in the same way that Meguiar's petroleum distillates are,
* Environmentally Safe
* Contain No Aromatic Hydrocarbons
* Contain No other Serious Air Pollutants
They are also distilled multiple times to remove:
* Carcinogens
* Reproductive Toxins
* Multiple other Impurities
I am positive that any ingredient Meguiar's uses in any of their formula's follows these same types of criteria in that the ingredients are the best of their kind available to get the job done, preserve the surface, and add beauty. Sometimes you just have to decide whether or not your going to put your trust in a company's product, or not.
Does this help?
Mike
imported_memnuts
New member
blkZ28Conv said:
You're right Mike. I did get a little anal on this thread. I thought the initial post and observation posted by Accumulator very mind stimulating and astute. As I mention in my initial response is that I will continue using FI because it has many uses when I detail because it is Body Shop safe. I apply a protectant almost every month or two on my daily driver, so a little quick cleaning is actually beneficially even if the method is by an alcohol or ester containing QD.
What's the point of shining up a dirty, though microscopic, finish?
With that said and Mike's answer about "wax" and FI, will FI remove a well-established "sealant" after one use. Of course not. Why? Because someone in this forum would have noticed this reaction a long time ago and analysis of this occurrence would have been discussed in infinitium. :xyxthumbs
SilverLexus
Super Enthusiast
Good information Mike. Thanks!
MattZ28
New member
Ok so that pretty much answers our questions. Time to go order a gallon 
Accumulator
Well-known member
Mike- Thanks for the additional info, and I appreciate you and your chemist taking the time to answer our Q's. I'm willing to just :nixweiss about my experiences with the #34 and my LSPs and FWIW, I go through #34 by the gallon when I'm polishing anyhow, so Meg's still has a happy Final Inspection customer here.
I'll start throwing in a disclaimer along the lines of "but this was only in my experience and Meguiar's assures me that the #34 shouldn't do that so :nixweiss" if the topic comes up again. I don't want to incorrectly cast aspersions on the product, but I can't discount my first-hand observations either.
I'll start throwing in a disclaimer along the lines of "but this was only in my experience and Meguiar's assures me that the #34 shouldn't do that so :nixweiss" if the topic comes up again. I don't want to incorrectly cast aspersions on the product, but I can't discount my first-hand observations either.
Bill D
Hooked For Life
Hmmm..maybe Last Touch or the old Final Detail could be an alternative if softening of the LSP is a concern. FD is what I use.
armoredsaint
New member
i never thought my little thread would get this technical, but I appreciate it Mike and everyone else, I still say #34 is one of the best QD you can use for your car, it leaves it clean without residue like I mentioned before. I always end up going back to #34 when I try others.
Bill D
Hooked For Life
If I didn't want to wash a car , this is what I would use with clay