22ple coating prep, IPA, Eraser, or soap and water....

[RaskyR1]

So I've been hearing some say not to use CarPro Eraser to prep the paint for 22ple application. Supposedly it can effect the bonding of 22ple and the beading will be reduced, they recommend using IPA instead. To quote one user, "there will be bonding issues. It will work, but beading wont be nearly as good. Eraser has surfectants that prevents a truly clean surface." . I happen to like using Eraser much more than IPA (minus the cost) and I had never noticed any negative effects from using it with any of the coatings I carry. Still, I want to be sure the work I put out for my clients holds up and I thought I would set up my own test panel to see if the rumor holds water.





My test:



Justin and I had been polishing on this panel with various products and pads, but we finished it down with Rupes Zephir, Keramik, and finally Diamond. Each section was prepped with either IPA (50%), Eraser, or soapy water followed by DI water.





Test panel prior to prep.

IPA wipe-down (all sections done with their own new towel)

Eraser

Soapy water/ DI water

Each section was coated with their own new applicator

Coating was allowed to cure for 4 minutes before wiping off, again each section had their own towel....temp was about 65 degrees

Panel was then set under an IR lamp for about 10 minutes

I forgot the panel at my shop so it's been 6 days since it was coated now. Prior to taking pics for beading I sprayed the panel down with OPC and let it dwell for about 2 minutes, then washed with soapy water and rinsed. It's currently a -10 below windchill in MN so I was forced to check the beading in my laundry room...not really ideal but it will do for now.



Beading shots

I'd like to continue doing further testing, especially long term, and when it gets warmer out I'll even try and grab some HD video of the panel using various spraying methods. At this point I'm just not seeing any negative effects for Eraser or even using just soap and water.







Cheers,

Rasky

 

[Tru_Shine]

Nice, cant wait to see long term durability. I havn't posted on this forum is of 6 Months, I about forgot how to sign in.

 

[malonkevio]

at this point I'm just not seeing any negative effects for Eraser or even using just soap and water.

 

[Avi@CarPro]

The test is good, but i would advise using wax or oily polish before using the ipa/eraser/soap , this way you could see better which one really remove oils and prepare the surface for the coating.

 

[CEE DOG]

Excellent test Chad! Very cool of you to take the time to do this for the sake of clients and detailers alike. Excellent pics and documentation.

 

[MusicMan]

The test is good, but i would advise using wax or oily polish before using the ipa/eraser/soap , this way you could see better which one really remove oils and prepare the surface for the coating.

I dont think the point of the test is to see if will effectively remove oils or not....it seems the point is to see if any residue from the actual oil REMOVER (Ipa, Eraser, soap n' water) is left.



Anyway Rasky, cool test. I personally haven't used 22ple yet but it definitely looks like beady awesomeness either way. Have you tried it side by side with any other coatings...some say 22 has better depth/gloss than OC...i still contest that the polishing is 95% of the gloss/depth, regardless of coating/sealant/wax

 

[sulla]

Rasky that is a great test thanks for taking the time to do this

Nice, cant wait to see long term durability. I havn't posted on this forum is of 6 Months, I about forgot how to sign in.

Your write ups is awesome I wish you do more..

I dont think the point of the test is to see if will effectively remove oils or not....it seems the point is to see if any residue from the actual oil REMOVER (Ipa, Eraser, soap n' water) is left.

The point of the post is to valid 22ple advice on how to prep before the coating... I'd prefer a test with oily polish since that's what most likely to happen before doing any coating I've seen many tests done and then manufacturer disclaim it being invalid



i.e

"Since the test was with clean surface eraser works fine, however polishing oils and certain ingredients in eraser built up film that interferes with 22ple bonding with the surface this is because 22ple unlike other coatings doesnt use alcohol as its carrier" <--THIS IS NOT SAID BY 22PLE THIS IS A BS I MADE UP BASED ON FACTS ABOUT 22PLE.



there's a specific reason why eraser is singled out by 22ple so if we are going to do an independent test it's better to do a test that covers all possibilities

 

[MusicMan]

Rasky that is a great test thanks for taking the time to do this







Your write ups is awesome I wish you do more..







The point of the post is to valid 22ple advice on how to prep before the coating... I'd prefer a test with oily polish since that's what most likely to happen before doing any coating I've seen many tests done and then manufacturer disclaim it being invalid



i.e

"Since the test was with clean surface eraser works fine, however polishing oils and certain ingredients in eraser built up film that interferes with 22ple bonding with the surface this is because 22ple unlike other coatings doesnt use alcohol as its carrier" <--THIS IS NOT SAID BY 22PLE THIS IS A BS I MADE UP BASED ON FACTS ABOUT 22PLE.



there's a specific reason why eraser is singled out by 22ple so if we are going to do an independent test it's better to do a test that covers all possibilities

But if the test was done while removing heavy oils...and the Eraser panel didnt look as good...the question would still be...was Eraser leaving something behind from the make up of Eraser itself...or was it just not cleaning the initial oils away as effectively as the other methods.

 

[imported_PiPUK]

If I am not mistaken, Eraser contains lauryl ether sulphate - an extremely common surfactant (it will be in many shampoos, for example). This probably goes a long way to help with lubrication but it does have the potential to deposit on the surface.



On the pictures, the eraser panel looked different after your wipe down. Both the IPA and water cleansed panels appear to be hydrophillic whereas the eraser panel is hydrophobic. Why, I cannot be sure but this indicates something is up. If the panels are all clean, they would all behave the same way. Soapy water is one people often get wrong because many of the ingredients in washing up soap are 'sticky' and adhere to a surface for several rinses and give the appearance of hydrophillic behaviour when in fact the surface remains hydrophobic but has the hydrophillic surfactants temporarily 'stuck'. However, your IPA wiped panel appears to behave similarly so I dont think that is the case here so that makes the eraser panel the odd one out...



Were you to do the test on a mirror, you might well be able to actually see any residues - this is how I test glass products for smearing, it is easier to spot residues than most other surfaces.

 

[RaskyR1]

To clarify, the test was only done to see if Eraser left anything behind that could potentially effect how 22ple bonded to the surface. I think Corey has already done some extensive testing to show how well each cleans the surface.

If I am not mistaken, Eraser contains lauryl ether sulphate - an extremely common surfactant (it will be in many shampoos, for example). This probably goes a long way to help with lubrication but it does have the potential to deposit on the surface.



Yes, this is the debate others were making. I'm told the percentage is low and that the with alcohol content in the product there should be nothing left on the surface that would interfere.



On the pictures, the eraser panel looked different after your wipe down. Both the IPA and water cleansed panels appear to be hydrophillic whereas the eraser panel is hydrophobic. Why, I cannot be sure but this indicates something is up. If the panels are all clean, they would all behave the same way. Soapy water is one people often get wrong because many of the ingredients in washing up soap are 'sticky' and adhere to a surface for several rinses and give the appearance of hydrophillic behaviour when in fact the surface remains hydrophobic but has the hydrophillic surfactants temporarily 'stuck'. However, your IPA wiped panel appears to behave similarly so I dont think that is the case here so that makes the eraser panel the odd one out...



Yes, I noticed this as well. Eraser beaded up on the surface initially and I really have no explanation for that. I did find it odd though. The pic for the water side was after the soapy water wipe-down. (To be honest I had originally planed to use straight water but I forgot I had added some soap to my water bottle for wet sanding a few weeks prior. it was too late once I realized it though)



Were you to do the test on a mirror, you might well be able to actually see any residues - this is how I test glass products for smearing, it is easier to spot residues than most other surfaces.

Thanks for the tips...I'll consider that for future testing.





Just to note, the Rupes polishes do have a fairly strong solvent smell to them and they seemed well lubricated...reminded me of Scholls actually...oily.

 

[RaskyR1]

I should also note I wiped each section twice with there dedicated product to help ensure all polishing oils were removed.

 

[RaskyR1]

Rasky that is a great test thanks for taking the time to do this







Your write ups is awesome I wish you do more..







The point of the post is to valid 22ple advice on how to prep before the coating... I'd prefer a test with oily polish since that's what most likely to happen before doing any coating I've seen many tests done and then manufacturer disclaim it being invalid



i.e

"Since the test was with clean surface eraser works fine, however polishing oils and certain ingredients in eraser built up film that interferes with 22ple bonding with the surface this is because 22ple unlike other coatings doesnt use alcohol as its carrier" <--THIS IS NOT SAID BY 22PLE THIS IS A BS I MADE UP BASED ON FACTS ABOUT 22PLE.



there's a specific reason why eraser is singled out by 22ple so if we are going to do an independent test it's better to do a test that covers all possibilities

This panel was polished with D300, an unreleased compound, Sonax PF, M205, HD Polish, and all four Rupes polishes prior to testing....I'd say there was plenty of polishing oils on the surface prior to testing.



I do appreciate your input though! It's easy to overlook things and I enjoy getting feedback to help with any future testings. :thumb:

 

[RaskyR1]

I dont think the point of the test is to see if will effectively remove oils or not....it seems the point is to see if any residue from the actual oil REMOVER (Ipa, Eraser, soap n' water) is left.



Anyway Rasky, cool test. I personally haven't used 22ple yet but it definitely looks like beady awesomeness either way. Have you tried it side by side with any other coatings...some say 22 has better depth/gloss than OC...i still contest that the polishing is 95% of the gloss/depth, regardless of coating/sealant/wax

I do have a few test panels with OG, 22ple, and CQF on them. In person there is a very noticeable difference in the darkening of the paint. I actually use one panel to show my clients the difference each makes. OG has a very, very light darkening effect, which is pretty hard to see actually. 22ple would be the middle of the road with a moderate darkening, and QCF leaves behind a very noticeable darkening. With a hard tape line it's easy to see and I'll try and grab some pictures this weekend. My first two test pans I made I tried to eliminate the tape line all together by putting down OG first and then taping over it after curing for a while...lol, apparently I didn't wait long enough because the tape stuck to it and now I have adhesive lines between each section!



You may be able to see the difference in this pic but it's easier on a panel that doesn't have the adhesive stuck to it...it had been outside for a while so it's a little dirty...sorry.

 

[Greg Gellas]

I'd like to continue doing further testing, especially long term, and when it gets warmer out I'll even try and grab some HD video of the panel using various spraying methods. At this point I'm just not seeing any negative effects for Eraser or even using just soap and water.

Chad, this is what I would really like to see if the sheeting effect is changed at all. While the beading looks great, with a mist setting we can make that happen anywhere. I look forward to more of your testing! You need more panels

 

[RaskyR1]

Chad, this is what I would really like to see if the sheeting effect is changed at all. While the beading looks great, with a mist setting we can make that happen anywhere. I look forward to more of your testing! You need more panels

Yeah, hopefully it warms up soon. I tried it with the hand held sprayer in the shower too and it still looked the same...my wife thinks I'm crazy btw!





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[maxepr1]

Chad I had a customer call me to tell me that he took his Audi S4 in for service and the guy's who cleaned it said it was the easiest car they ever cleaned! Hardly had to dry it at all! I applied 22 back last fall.

 

[David Fermani]

Nice review Chad. Great to see you taking on projects to help people though their doubts.

 

[sulla]

This panel was polished with D300, an unreleased compound, Sonax PF, M205, HD Polish, and all four Rupes polishes prior to testing....I'd say there was plenty of polishing oils on the surface prior to testing.



I do appreciate your input though! It's easy to overlook things and I enjoy getting feedback to help with any future testings. :thumb:

I missed that part of your post after i read avi's comment...



I guess put the panel outside for 3 months and wash it with strong chemicals after to check the beading and it will show both durability and the answer to the eraser question :dance