2002 black envoy needs some TLC

A

ADauphin

New member
I haven't entirely neglected the paint but it needs some attention. What I have is a PC with an array of pads, I understand a Flex is the hot ticket but I need to get by with my PC for now. Last time I went over the exterior with the PC was last year, :(... no acid rain damage, just some light swirls and some haze but a small area with some Intensive Polish it cleans up fairly well.



Has been awhile and I haven't been up to date on the newest products so with this vintage clear coat, what are my best options?



I have been thinking of the Menzerma IP, PF, FF, line but curious as to what others are using. Would the SIP be too much for this clear? I don't know if this clear is soft or hard either, I have only used IP, then FP but these are the older square bottles, followed by natty's blue but I never was able to get that deep wet look, almost but I have seen much better.



Going with a fresh set of pads and bottles is fine, just looking to get started (again) in the right direction.
 
Pics would be helpful. But best advice is to start in the middle with your pad and polish choice and adjust from there. Just not possible over the internet with a vehicle not in front of someone to tell you exactly where you need to start. GM clears tend to be on the hard side.



With black paint, I'd finish with HD Polish but how you get there is dependent on where you are starting and how the paint responds.
 
Going with a fresh set of pads and bottles is fine, just looking to get started (again) in the right direction.
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Sorry for the late pics but here is a portion of the hood. The cloudiness has been slightly amplified by the flash but the surface is just slightly hazy.



In the second pic I rubbed a small area with some Final Polish.



Envoypaint1_zpsda5845fd.jpg




Envoypaint2_zpsbd7ea792.jpg
 
Looking at picking up some newer power finish but what about super finish? Just looking for some recommendations for this era of GM clear, I don't want to damage it or add unnecessary steps. Again this will be with a PC orbital, not an Edge or a rotary.



Trying to stay with Menzerma but anything that is proven I will try as well.
 
I'd start by hitting it with Megs. Ultimate Compound with a white pad (orange if white isn't cutting enough for you).

Sorry about not sticking with Menzerma.
 
As Scott suggested, the clearcoat is pretty hard. (I cut my teeth on GM vehicles of this vintage...using a PC 7424...always fun to work on, and you can make very good strides with that machine.)



Following Scott's advice (this is a common theme over many years...what would Scott do?), I'd start with IP and a medium cut pad (I use LC orange...you didn't mention the specifics of your arsenal, so go with the equivalent). Based on your pic above, that likely won't be enough, but it'll give you an idea of how much more aggressive you need to get. If you have a pad with more cut (i.e. LC yellow), that might work with IP, or you can certainly go up to SIP, which...to answer your question...is not too much for the clearcoat.



However, two things (IME/IMO/YMMV...yada yada) to consider with SIP...it doesn't give a lot of working time, and it definitely doesn't finish well. (Not a huge deal since I get the impression you're prepared to follow with a finishing polish.) Ok, a third...I've found that in humid conditions it can be really sticky as well. My experience goes back about six-seven years now, so things may very well have changed. In the brief time I flirted with the line, I found that mixing in a few dots of IP increased the working time a bit. Anyway...obviously wonderful stuff, but I was lured into Megs 105/205 and haven't really strayed much since.



Sorry for the tangent...just sharing a bit of experience in case there's any value there. Definitely use what you've got, and let us know how it turns out.
 
Thanks for the tips.



The pads I have are from Proper Auto care, before they went under and are constant pressure pads....



1 red

1 orange

2 white

1 gray



I have no issues going with Megs, whatever works. I have found that IP really needs to be worked to get the mirror I'm after but I never really achieved it yet, but pretty close. I have seen some really nice blacks and naturally they were done with higher end equipment and a lot of experience but based on myself using the IP with the PC, I feel there's something more suited to this task and I'm willing to reach out. As long as it works with my PC since a Flex is only on the wish list for now.
 
gmcman- I can't imagine doing an entire GM truck of that vintage (I've had more than one) with a PC (had/have more than one of those too). *I* would have to use 4" pads to effect effective correction in a timely manner, but that's just me.



I'd want to use a more aggressive pad than that orange, either a MF cutting disk or the Meguiar's burgundy foam cutting pad.



I'd use either M105 or M101 for the aggressive work, which I'd spend countless hours doing, especially by PC. Pick a representative test-spot and work your aggressive combo until the existing damage is replaced by the combo's micromarring, or until you get tired of doing it and say "good enough!". Then polish away the micromarring with your milder combo and inspect/inspect/inspect in very good lighting. Once you get your approached dialed-in that way, and *ONLY* then, proceed to do the rest of the vehicle.



I would use: M105 or M101 via MF Cutting Disk, followed by HD Polish on a polishing pad. I *might* do an intermediate step in between those two, depends how well the Polish cleared things up.



I have no issues with Menzerna, but I'd rather use those products.
 
I will take the advice here and go with the 105/205 and pick up a few burgundy pads. I also have some Natty's Blue but is a couple years old. Would the blue be a good wax or is there another alternative?
 
gmcman- Can't talk you into the MF Cutting Disks instead of the maroon foam cutting pads? I really do think the MF disks are the best option.



Can't say about the natty's, never used it. I wouldn't worry about it being a few years old, all my LSPs are older than that.
 
I hate to throw you a curve . I used a LC Flat Orange pad and Menzerna FG400 on my 93 Landcruiser with a very hard clearcoat. With my Flex the finish came out great. Used HD Polish with a LC Green pad for the final. Then Opticoated the hood and front fenders. For original paint it looks excellent. My only question to you would be over how your PC would do in place of the Flex. The FG400 cut better and finished much better than the SIP as far as I'm concerned.
 
Accumulator said:
gmcman- Can't talk you into the MF Cutting Disks instead of the maroon foam cutting pads? I really do think the MF disks are the best option.
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You sure can....:razz: I will surely pick a few up and try them out. That's Murphy's law......if I don't get them.......





Only issue I have with Natty's is it's tricky to work with since it goes on soooo light. Maybe a lot of LSP's are like that but this one can make removing time consuming if you use too much.
 
Marine Clerk said:
My only question to you would be over how your PC would do in place of the Flex. The FG400 cut better and finished much better than the SIP as far as I'm concerned.
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The PC would sit on the shelf. :biggrin1:



Unfortunately the PC will remain the backbone of my operation for awhile, so to accomplish what the Flex can would require more time and different pads but I think with what I have I can hopefully accomplish this with the PC. The PC is still a tough contender but has it's limitations.
 
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