2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

T

ttforcefed

New member
so 2 years ago i had half my RR done in ceramic by one of the best detailers around the metro NYC area and the other half was done the old fashion way: clay, clean, glaze, carnuba.
Since then, as its a daily driver, ive had the car hand washed as well as run through car washes. i dont know which side was done with ceramic and which was done in carnuba as i had the detailer hold this info back from me.

the first pic is was taken shortly after the detail in sept 2016. the other 2 pics are from a couple weeks ago. can you tell which side has the ceramic? i cant.
 

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Are the newer pics right after a wash or is it rain water? I would assume the last wash applied some sort of protection.
 
Have you been using a spray wax or any other wax / detailer on the vehicle?

If yes are you using it over the coating as well?


 
Keep in mind many car washes, especially the higher priced option ones are adding something/protection to the paint that will make water bead up.
 
newer pics are right after the rain, just like first pic.

no ppf on that car.

i dont wash the cars but since 2 years ago ive only had hand washes and splash car washes.

its hard for me to understand spending $2500 on ceramic on top of ppf which is temporary and gets replaced every few years.
 
The point I was getting as is that whomever is washing your vehicle is using some kind of spray wax -or- protection over top of the entire vehicle essentially covering up the look and abilities of the coating while also making everything look them same as far a beading and sheeting.

Personally I don`t know of a single "wax" product that could last 2 years on a daily driven vehicle that had only be washed with a soap and not have anything else applied.
 
Let me get this straight. You had a carnauba wax applied two years ago and you did nothing but wash it for 2 years and it is still beading, on a daily driver? I have never heard of a wax that lasted 1 year much less 2. Can you tell us the brand of the wax?
 
Yes thats right.
Zymol hd clense followed by 3m imperial hand glaze followed by zymol carbon


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rlmccarty2000 said:
Let me get this straight. You had a carnauba wax applied two years ago and you did nothing but wash it for 2 years and it is still beading, on a daily driver? I have never heard of a wax that lasted 1 year much less 2. Can you tell us the brand of the wax?
Click to expand...

As I noted above, the automatic car washes have chemicals in them that will make water bead like that, so in no way is the above photos and indication that the original wax is still there.

automatic-comparison.jpg
 
In the 60 years I have been around vehicles Detailing, Painting, etc., I have never seen any wax product last longer than a few weeks. Some of the more hybrid wax products (Finish Kare 1000, Collenite 845) seem to last longer, but I have never seen or heard of any product of this type (carnauba wax) lasting a year or 2 years with the vehicle being outside and used during that time span..
Glazes of course last even less time, and are easily washed off..
Of course, garage queens that never go out much less ever get uncovered from their baby-soft indoor car covers, will have products lasting longer, but the vehicle is not ever taken outside, so no real durability test here..
Dan F
 
I understand what u guys are saying but it refutes using ceramics especially given the crazy prices no?


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Well,the first time I coated all our personal vehicles (5), using Optimum Opti-Guard, I personally went 4.5 years on my Black Grand Cherokee, drove multiple several thousand mile trips through rain, sleet, snow, sand, (in AZ), (Washington State - California - Arizona - New Mexico - to Texas, and back) and never, ever, had to do anything to "recharge", "refresh", "supercharge", et. al., the coating.. All I ever did was hand wash it, and when Carpro Reset was invented, I started using that, and this product really helped remove all the gunk that sticks to whatever is on the car, and the coating, even in the 4th year, looked and acted really better..
So if time is money and I did nothing but wash the car, I believe I got a really great deal..
Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
Well,the first time I coated all our personal vehicles (5), using Optimum Opti-Guard, I personally went 4.5 years on my Black Grand Cherokee, drove multiple several thousand mile trips through rain, sleet, snow, sand, (in AZ), (Washington State - California - Arizona - New Mexico - to Texas, and back) and never, ever, had to do anything to "recharge", "refresh", "supercharge", et. al., the coating.. All I ever did was hand wash it, and when Carpro Reset was invented, I started using that, and this product really helped remove all the gunk that sticks to whatever is on the car, and the coating, even in the 4th year, looked and acted really better..
So if time is money and I did nothing but wash the car, I believe I got a really great deal..
Dan F
Click to expand...

Is OptiGuard Optimum’s pro type coating? The one they sell now Optigloss doesn’t get any love at all. I was just getting into hardcore detailing when they pulled OptiGuard. Has anyone used Optigloss? Pro only coatings kind of pi## me off, but if manufacturers want to sell to a limited clientele who am I to stop them? It must work as a business model.
 
ttforcefed said:
I understand what u guys are saying but it refutes using ceramics especially given the crazy prices no?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

No.

What they`re saying is that the protection you`re seeing is probably from the car wash.

By your logic you`re discrediting traditional waxes too.

There`s been much more controlled tests done by members which show the benefits of synthetic products over traditional carnuba waxes.
 
rlmccarty2000 said:
Is OptiGuard Optimum’s pro type coating? The one they sell now Optigloss doesn’t get any love at all. I was just getting into hardcore detailing when they pulled OptiGuard. Has anyone used Optigloss? Pro only coatings kind of pi## me off, but if manufacturers want to sell to a limited clientele who am I to stop them? It must work as a business model.
Click to expand...


I have the old "Opti-Guard" which was the name before the name change to "Opti-Coat Pro". But my understanding is that there have been multiple updates tot the formula over the years. I have "Opti-Guard" on my truck and still love it. Really wish I could still use it.


I have used a few tubes of Opti "Gloss-Coat". It really is extremely easy to use and apply. I have used it on a few sets of wheels but I tend to pull them off and do a decon and re-application yearly since it is my personal car and I run 2 sets of wheels. I have it on a few panels of paint and it is doing fine but its only been a year. I don`t really expect 2+ years out of it like I got from CQUK but it very well could. I feel like many people have gotten less than stellar results from "Gloss-Coat".
 
I love Zymol waxes. I haven`t done a bare test with Carbon, but at 2.5 months Glasur was showing some significant wear without being topped. 2 years is pushing it for a lot of coatings, so I would not be surprised after this amount of time to find it difficult or impossible to distinguish the additional performance on the coated side against the uncoated side. Eventually the surface degrades and you`ll get the performance of the recent topper.

That being said, there is not a wax or a sealant that has come remotely close to the bare performance of the standard coatings I`ve tested. CQUK, McKee`s V2, Gyeon, Gtechniq, Blackfire, etc. If Polymer Net Shield, Fusso Coat, and FK1000P are the power hitters of durability in the sealants category - something like CQUK absolutely destroys them in visible durability. But I don`t need a coating to maintain a decent finish. A coat of FK1000P maintained with something like Gyeon Cure after washes, reapplying FK1000P on a regular 4-5 month basis - after two years the paint would still look fantastic while being protected at a high level without the costs of the professionally applied coating.

If I ran the same test as you, I can`t see myself getting much utility out of the coating unless I was specifically the one performing the maintenance washes. That`s where I see the performance in action on the coatings I apply and where I can easily see the improvement against regular waxes or sealants and keep an eye on changing durability. If the paint shows no signs of heavier oxidation on the Carbon side and you`re equally as satisfied with both sides after two years, then it`s easy to understand why you`re questioning the extra cost of going with the coating. Can you name what coating the detailer went with?
 
rlmccarty2000 said:
Is OptiGuard Optimum’s pro type coating? The one they sell now Optigloss doesn’t get any love at all. I was just getting into hardcore detailing when they pulled OptiGuard. Has anyone used Optigloss? Pro only coatings kind of pi## me off, but if manufacturers want to sell to a limited clientele who am I to stop them? It must work as a business model.
Click to expand...

Hey, Amigo !
I dont think that this old model of Optimum from way before 2011 was ever classified as a "pro" only coating.. In fact, I think they were not even selling pro only coatings anyway back then..
In 2008 I think, when I applied to Optimum to be on their "preferred vendor list" all I had to do was show them my business license, website, and my $1,200/year USAA Garageman Insurance policy ($1million in Liability)..
Sorry, I am not that great on the dates...
After that Opti-Guard or during that time frame, they came out with Optimum Opti-Coat 2.0, and I had a couple big 40 cc syringes of that also.. The last of that 2.0 is what is on my Black Grand Cherokee now and my Acura TL Type-S, and it is still a fabulous, no stress over, coating..
Of course, all those earlier versions of Optimum are long gone, and I even remember when Gloss Coat came out, and I believe that is all they sell to the general public..

I am still sad that Optimum chose to tie up their "preferred vendors" with huge mark ups on their latest and greatest coatings...
It has always baffled me how Optimum thinks they can charge such a high price for their products to - everyone - when the Market never was and will never be the same for everyone.. Am I the only one who paid attention in that class??? :) Surely not... :)

And then they try to tie their preferred vendors into "areas", "zones", protected so no one else will be able to offer that "pro" product there.... How 50`s and 60s` of them... :)

Would it not be much better to MOVE all the product you can to help defray the costs to make it, etc., to have all these Optimum experts out there, etc.., to pay all the Employees, etc..?

With the Internet of Things alone, all those old, tired, sad, dead, marketing protected areas, zones, business models died as far as Im concerned..

So, some kid with no experience gets to buy the product, and absolutely knows nothing about it, tries to use it on a client`s car, its a disaster, now the client is on Optimum`s tail about this...

So Optimum cannot figure out how to write something that goes with this pro only coating that states that only after a verified professional installer applies their most expensive coating, and there are problems that were not caused by the install, OR the Client, then they will (because they guarantee their pro coatings, right?) pay another verified professional installer to R&R the product to make it right, etc...

This current business model they appear to use today, is also crazy.. I have a business acquaintance, who only installed clear bra and window tint, apply to Optimum to be a "pro" installer of their most expensive coating/s and stuff, and none of those guys had ever even picked up a machine much less knew how to use one, until they asked me to come down and teach them...

Of course, they knew nothing about claybars, preparing the paint correctly and removing defects, etc..

All they knew was, we wash it, wipe it down with another product to remove anything else, and apply soapy water and then the clearbra, window tint..

I don`t know how successful they have been with selling the "pro" coating to their Clients, but I believe they had to pay a lot of money in those products, to get their own "protected zone/area"...

Last I checked, they are doing pretty good.. I did have to go down and completely correct a new 2018 red Tesla for them that came from Tesla completely scratched from end to end.. Also had damage where they shoved the tail lights into the body too hard, missed the mark and damaged the paintwork, etc... It was pretty sad to see that for sure, Tesla knows nothing about assembling vehicles from scratch, and must employ people who know even less than they do, to put them together...

And when the Client who bought this 2018 Red Tesla in San Francisco complained about the scratches, they told him -"we are selling you the BEST Electric Car in the World !!!" We don`t really care about the rest of it"

Well, anyway, when I see them at SEMA at the end of this month, I will ask Optimum these questions and tell you what they said..
Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
Hey, Amigo !
I dont think that this old model of Optimum from way before 2011 was ever classified as a "pro" only coating.. In fact, I think they were not even selling pro only coatings anyway back then..
In 2008 I think, when I applied to Optimum to be on their "preferred vendor list" all I had to do was show them my business license, website, and my $1,200/year USAA Garageman Insurance policy ($1million in Liability)..
Sorry, I am not that great on the dates...
After that Opti-Guard or during that time frame, they came out with Optimum 2.0, and I had a couple big syringes of that also.. The last of that 2.0 is what is on my Black Grand Cherokee now and my Acura TL Type-S, and it is still a fabulous, no stress over, coating..
Of course, all those earlier versions of Optimum are long gone, and I even remember when Gloss Coat came out, and I believe that is all they sell to the general public..

I am still sad that Optimum chose to tie up their "preferred vendors" with huge mark ups on their latest and greatest coatings...
It has always baffled me how Optimum thinks they can charge such a high price for their products to - everyone - when the Market never was and will never be the same for everyone.. Am I the only one who paid attention in that class??? :) Surely not... :)

And then they try to tie their preferred vendors into "areas", "zones", protected so no one else will be able to offer that "pro" product there.... How 50`s and 60s` of them... :)

Would it not be much better to MOVE all the product you can to help defray the costs to make it, etc., to have all these Optimum experts out there, etc.., to pay all the Employees, etc..?

With the Internet of Things alone, all those old, tired, sad, dead, marketing protected areas, zones, business models died as far as Im concerned..

So, some kid with no experience gets to buy the product, and absolutely knows nothing about it, tries to use it on a client`s car, its a disaster, now the client is on Optimum`s tail about this...

So Optimum cannot figure out how to write something that goes with this pro only coating that states that only after a verified professional installer applies their most expensive coating, and there are problems that were not caused by the install, OR the Client, then they will (because they guarantee their pro coatings, right?) pay another verified professional installer to R&R the product to make it right, etc...

This current business model they appear to use today, is also crazy.. I have a business acquaintance, who only installed clear bra and window tint, apply to Optimum to be a "pro" installer of their most expensive coating/s and stuff, and none of those guys had ever even picked up a machine much less knew how to use one, until they asked me to come down and teach them...

Of course, they knew nothing about claybars, preparing the paint correctly and removing defects, etc..

All they knew was, we wash it, wipe it down with another product to remove anything else, and apply soapy water and then the clearbra, window tint..

I don`t know how successful they have been with selling the "pro" coating to their Clients, but I believe they had to pay a lot of money in those products, to get their own "protected zone/area"...

Last I checked, they are doing pretty good.. I did have to go down and completely correct a new 2018 red Tesla for them that came from Tesla completely scratched from end to end.. Also had damage where they shoved the tail lights into the body too hard, missed the mark and damaged the paintwork, etc... It was pretty sad to see that for sure, Tesla knows nothing about assembling vehicles from scratch, and must employ people who know even less than they do, to put them together...

And when the Client who bought this 2018 Red Tesla in San Francisco complained about the scratches, they told him -"we are selling you the BEST Electric Car in the World !!!" We don`t really care about the rest of it"

Well, anyway, when I see them at SEMA at the end of this month, I will ask Optimum these questions and tell you what they said..
Dan F
Click to expand...

Opti-Coat was the bomb when it first came out! The version I applied to a co-workers car in 2010 is still going strong today but unfortunately I can`t say the same for the versions after that. Cost explodes and performance goes down. Sad. :(
 
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