1980 Corvette

shirtman

New member
Anyone know about restoration of paint on a 1980 vette? A friend is looking to buying, and would like me to take a look at the paint for potential restoration. I have not yet worked with fiberglass bodies, and do not know if there are any particular issues with working with that paint. Is it clearcoated? Any tips would be appreciated. I have to go look at this car tomorrow.



Thanks!!



Jeff
 
If it is the original paint, it will not be clear-coated. 1980 still had lacquer paint. If the paint is crazed & cracked, it will need to be stripped before repainting. If it is in decent condition, normal detailing guidelines would apply. A 1980 with original paint would be rather uncommon, but not impossible to find.



Charles
 
10 to 1 chance its not clearcoat. I would say that unless you see spots on the paint which is delaminating, or spots that are obviously thin, it is restorable. For paint this old however, I would resort only to doing work by hand. Even the Porter Cable may be too much for it. My advice also would be DO NOT use dawn wash as this can oxidate older paints much faster than our modern BC/CC.



Personally I would do the following:



inspect for savarity of present oxidation and paint clouding/fading. If no 'overly severe' spots exist, go ahead and use a medium-cutting paint cleaner such as Meguiar's Clear Coat Body Scrub by hand to remove or reduce appearance or presence of these ailments.



After doing this step, assess paint further. Is it smooth? If the paint is rough you might consider using an extremely soft and well lubed clay to remove those spots. Avoid doing this to the entire car however, as anything is possible and the paint could be brittle/just waiting to crack. Also take note that there will not be a totally smooth look to the paint, nor will it look like the kind of "orange peel" that you're used to. it will be orange peeled, but more in a linear fashion. This is ok.



Next step would be to use a mild polishing agent such as Meguiar's #9 2.0 or similar to remove swirling and scratching. This step is only to be used if the surface defects are strong enough to warrant this. Otherwise skip this step and apply Klasse AIO which will do some of the same job and it will look fine still afterwards. This will also give you a good sealant base for your topper. On a vehicle with paint this old I would recommend using the klasse twins and a carnauba topper just because this is safest (you could use Zaino Z-3, but IMO it doesnt look as good for this application.)



After you have AIO applied (don't use a ton, try to be as gentle as possible.) you can go ahead and apply a few coats, as many as you like, of SG. I like between 3-4 myself for the look. From there you can use a carnauba topper. Personally I would try blitz or P21S/S100 first, then move up to souveran or paste glaz if you dont like the look from the other two.





I guess the main point Im trying to make is: when dealing with older vehicles and older paint, regardless of fiberglass or sheet metal, BE CAREFUL!! I've seen older cars get ruined when somebody took turtle wax rubbing compound and the wool pad on their direct-drive rotary buffer and marred the heck outta the surface. Good luck, and have fun!!
 
Thanks for the responses, guys. I believe that the paint is original, but I wil find out tomorrow. I have the Klasse twins in stock, as well as DACP, 3M Perfect It Compound and SMR, Mothers clay, Griots 1,2,3 machine polishes, some Z stuff, the Pinnacle Paintwork Cleanser, Souveran and QD. and of course a PC.



I will certainly take the tack of going with least abrasive first, and moving up the scale slowly as required. I have had pretty good luck with the Griots stuff on older finishes. I may use them to start, and see where we have to go with things.



If I start with Griots #3 and move up the scale, how do the others fit into the scale? I plan on finishing things with AIO and either SG or SG + Souveran.



Thanks for your continued support! :xyxthumbs



Jeff
 
from your list:



PPCL

Griots 3

AIO

Griots 2

Griots 1

DACP

3M SMR

3M Perfect-It



and those are all the abrasive products you mentioned. Again the clay should be only used if there are spots that HAVE TO have it. I recommend doing your work by hand to be safe, don't use the PC unless you have to, and then only use the least possible agressive pad and lowest possible speed.
 
I have the orange and red Griots pads. I will take it very easy. Thanks for the assist. I will take a look tomorrow and post the condition of the patient.



:)



Jeff
 
Black99miata said:
I believe that the paint is original, but I wil find out tomorrow.

If the paint is original and in good condition, your friend has probably found a car that has been well cared for. Corvettes can be pretty ragged out or in almost pristine condition. It seems not too many fall in between.



Charles
 
Well, the '80 paint was not original, and whoever had it painted did not spend a lot on it. Car was pretty rough. We did see, however, an '87 that was in really good shape - 24K on the odo and a few places which needed a dab of touch-up, but overall in very nice shape. The finish was reasonable now, and with a bit of SMR and Klasse, the dark red would come outlooking pretty darn good.



The dealer (Stoudt's in Reading PA) is asking $16,900. for the car. 4 speed plus 3OD, Z51 suspension. Runs well. Anyone have any feel about the price? I am hoping we can get him to 16 or so.



Any comments re: the '87 model year or about this car in particular, please post.



Thanks!



Jeff
 
Seems like waaay too much money for a 1987. Check the pricing on www.nadaguides.com

Remember, that is a 15-16 year old car that isn't a collector car at all. Love Corvettes, but if you get a piece of junk it can cost you a lot of money.



Charles
 
ok about that particular car: the Z51 option coupled with the 4+3 manual is rather rare to find on these cars. Especially one in good condition like you say this one is. I believe 1987 was the last year for the 4+3 tranny as well. Many say that the 4+3 is the best tranny ever made for the vettes.



I would say the price is reasonable if not a little low for a car of its age/mileage and supposed condition. I would be careful though because its still possible the paint isnt clearcoated (I'm not totally sure so dont quote me on that - but just look on the door jamb sticker with the RPO's for "BC/CC" next to the color code.) Other than that, nice find! It doesnt hurt to ask and see if he'll deal on it with you, but I wouldnt be offended/not buy the car if he doesnt simply because of these rarity factors. :xyxthumbs
 
I know that the "books" - NADA, Blue Book, etc. call for prices under 10K. I haven't seen one which is not beat to death at that price with more than 75 or 100K on the odo. This car has 24K miles, and is in excellent condition. Looking at ads and actual sales, it is not out of line as far as I can tell. I agree with you SLDetailer.... I think this one is a find.



Jeff
 
It might be the right car and the right price, I sure don't know.

Before you write the check, you might want to go to

www.corvettemagazine.com

Check out their price calculator. It takes into account all the options, including the Z51 suspension and the 4+3 tranny.



Charles
 
also for price reference, consider this:



a friend of mine bought a 1987 Camaro Z/28 IROC with 38K miles on it, for $15K. This was in the year 2000. In 2002, he sold the car to his brother's roommate for $10K. The car at that point had 43K miles on it and was still in mint condition, except for having new tires, and a flowmaster exhaust system. His car also had a rare option or two on it, like the overhead console with data center, and the L98 5.7L V8 TPI (instead of the normal 5.0L HO TBI motor.)
 
Got the VIN from the dealer. Got the printout from Corvette Historical for what the car had on it from the factory. LOADED. We will see what he guy wil do for price. After having looked around for quite some time, I think it is fair. I guess I have a detail job ahead. Whoo Hoo!



Jeff
 
I had a 1987 Corvette that was a 4+3 manual and a Z51. Unless it is a convertible, $16,000 is waayyyyy too much. That car will never be collectible, even though the Z51/4+3 was rare. I sold mine with 80,000 miles on it for $5,700 about a year ago. I bought it 5 years ago with 40,000 miles for about $10,000. It had Bose and the defroster/side mirror defroster, and the solid top. That's what I would say it would be worth with 24K on the odo. I might go to $12K since you said it was loaded (it would have to be perfect, though). Once you start getting around $15K, you're talking early 90's LT1's. The low mileage is nice, but if it's real low you can almost guarantee when you start driving it daily that little things like the battery and alternator will crap out. Low mileage can be sort of a curse too.



Nice things about 1987:

- Anti-lock brakes

- Aluminum heads that added 10hp

- Roller lifters that reduce drivetrain losses and lifter/cam wear

- overdrive button moved to the shifter top instead of a switch on the center console. This is just cooler and easier to use.



1988 was the last year for the 4+3, and that year saw bigger brakes and 17" wheels. The 4+3 is a nice tranny, and it doesn't have the skip-shift crap, but the overdrive unit can go bad. I think mainly it's from neglegence. It requires the maintenance of an automatic (drain the fluid, replace the filter every 30,000 miles). It doesn't have a torque convertor or anything so it doesn't add drivetrain losses. And it's cool. If you punch the gas, it will downshift from overdrive on it's own. There was a very collectible 1988 Corvette: the 35th Anniversary. It is one of the most beautiful Corvettes ever IMO. One of those with under 75,000 miles would be about $15-16k and much more worth the money IMO.



However, a 1987 is an excellent car. That 345 lb-ft of torque is amazing. And they are quite easy to work on. There is a ton of aluminum and it's really pretty modern considering it's age (tilt/telescope wheel, ABS, intermittent wipers, cupholders...). I miss my car sometimes, but we just didn't have room for it (which is a shame because it wasn't about money. It was worth much more to me than it was worth as a car).



Things I would look at (in addition to all the normal things you check when buying a used car):

- check the weatherstripping. It is quite expensive to replace, and the top will leak if it's cracked. Parts alone are over $1,000.

- check the tires. Find out how old they are. It's possible they are original since you said it has 24K. This would be quite dangerous to drive on if they are. The rubber will harden and have small cracks all over it. Look for the DOT manufacture date. If there isn't one, it means they are at least like 10 years old since they started that in the early '90s.

- make sure the overdrive unit in the tranny will shift from high to low and back. These are the weak spots in the tranny, but usually from lack of maintenance. They need the fluid changed just like an automatic, and the level needs to be checked occasionally (which requires going under the car).

- check for cracks in the paint, especially on the hood. This is common from the fiberglass flexing, but you just want to be aware of it ahead of time. It's ok if it has it, you just want to know.

- since it is so low mileage, check the maintenance records. If they never flushed the radiator or changed the tranny fluid because of the mileage, you just might want to be aware of that. Or if the oil was only changed like every two years because of mileage, you'll want to know that too. It might be a reason to offer less, not necessarily a reason to pass on it.

- check the shocks to make sure there isn't oil sprayed out from the middle. The Z51 shocks last much much longer, but when they go you will see oil spray from the shock. They will almost definitely be dirty, but you want to look for oil.



That's all I can think of now.
 
Oh, make sure it has the little stuff too. Well, at least make sure you know you are or aren't getting it, anyway. The window sticker is nice, the manual and the leather case it comes in. If it has a Bose radio, there was a Bose supplement to the manual. Make sure there is a build sticker in the center glove box. If he added any performance parts, make sure you can get the originals, especially for stuff like the PCM.



The Z51 means a stiffer ride, but you can always swap the shocks and still get the Z51 features. It had a numerically-higher overdrive ratio for a higher top speed (the Z51 manual turns about 1600 rpm at 60mph instead of about 1450 rpm for the non-Z51 OD unit). It also has stiffer springs, an oil cooler, a power-steering cooler, and a quicker-ratio steering rack (13:1 I think? It's like barely 2 turns lock-to-lock). And, the Z51 had 9.5" wide wheels all the way around. Some non-Z51's had 8.5" wide fronts and 9.5" rears which made rotating the tires impossible. When you buy replacement tires, make sure (check the manufacturers web site) the 255/50-16 is made to be mounted on a 9.5" wheel. Most of them aren't. 9.5" is pretty dang wide for a 255 tire. Tire places will try it because they are stupid, but if the tire isn't made for it, don't try it. They just care that it's a 255/50. There are a few that will fit like Dunlop SP Sport 5000's and Goodyear Eagle GT+4's.
 
Lots of good information. Thanks Aurora! The car has been well maintained, as evidenced by the state of the car. My friend has checked many many sites as well as discussed the car with a Bloomington judge. He believes it is a fair price.



That aside, I appreciate your excellent comments. I also had concerns over the state of the rubber, and from what I can tell it is in great shape. The tranny info is great, and we wil check that out pronto. As for rubber, he is bending this guy's arm to replace it before taking ownership with Kumhos or Dunlops. The width issue is one that is cerainly an intersting twist. This car does hve the 9.5 inch rims.



THANKS for all the info. It has been very enlightening. If ytou think of any more, feel free to PM me.



Jeff
 
Is he buying it to never drive and enter in competitions? If so, then maybe Bloomington certification or having a Bloomington ready car might be worth the money. But I was assuming he was looking for a car to drive. If that's the case, paying for show car condition that will be gone after a week of daily driving seems a little crazy. I'm not saying it's a bad buy, though. If he can't find any decent '87s then he might try looking at some '89 or '90s. I'll bet he could find some in nice shape with under 50,000 miles for about $16,000. They'd have the more durable 6-speed, 17" wheels, larger brakes, and like 5 more hp. To me when talking about a 15 year old car, 25,000 or 50,000 miles is pretty much the same. When they are super low on an old car, to me that just means it will have more stuff crap out initially (no scientific explanation, just my gut feeling). So if he's just going to drive it (which is what those non-collectible Corvettes excel at) the mileage shouldn't matter so much. The L98 is bulletproof and will easily go 150-200,000 miles. And the rest of the stuff will wear out as much from age as from mileage. But it's just an opinion. I want to see pictures if he gets it (or if he gets another Corvette). I love the pre-1991 C4's. They have such an awesome style. I think my dream daily-driver would be a 1990 ZR-1 because it still had the aggressive original C4 body with the newer interior and that incredible LT-5 (anything nicer and I'd feel bad about driving it a lot). Although the traction control that came out in 1992 would be nice... :)



Hey, I just noticed you said it was dark red. Is it the flame red that looks like a burgundy metallic? That's the same color mine was (can't remember the paint code...). My car was factory clearcoated, but it may depend on the color (although I really doubt it, I'd bet they were all clearcoated). It really was a beautiful color. I was originally looking for bright red, but I really like that dark red more after having it.



I'd never heard that about the odometer, but Avalanche reminded me of another point. Make sure all the functions on the dash work properly. Try the switches in all the positions. I never had problems with my dash, but they can be expensive to troubleshoot and repair. So just make sure it works like it's supposed to.



Here was my baby...



2657myvette2.jpg
 
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