106FF (smart oils)

SVR

SVR

Dream Machines
During my useage of 106FF I have noticed that it has a way of guiding you through the process



It tells when to slow down or speed up via the way it's oils spread

For instance -



I start at 600 rpm and work it slowly until the oils start spreading really well.

Once I notice this, the speed lifts to 900 and then 1100

After a short time I notice that the oils start to go clear (like they have dissappeared into the paint), so then I know that I should not continue at this speed or the oils won't return. So I speed up

I increase to 1250 to 1350 for 45 seconds or so

At about that time, the oils clear up again so it's telling me to move to 1500 to 1600

Again the oil spreading returns and I work a couple complete passes (one pass = five left to right or up and down applications)

Sometimes (especially with jap paints), the oils won't spread properly at 1500 or more because of the less tolerance they have to heat than other paints so I slow back down to 1300 and back come the oils

Once I've done that for 20 to 30 seconds, back to 1500 to 1600 again for one quick pass

Then the burnishing/jeweling comes in - 1100 rpm for a complete pass, 900 for another, then 750 and 600

By this time, the paint looks like a pool of water and I remove the residue with a towel (no water or QD) and once the residue is removed then I'll go over the paint with driven quick spray and a towel



If you stay at a speed once the oils clear up, you won't get them back

What it is saying to you is "I've completed this stage of the process, please move on to the next one"



So by keeping your eye on how the polish is spreading, the process should be fool proof on most paint finishes



The ceramiclear polishes have more oils in them than the PO91L or E, PO87MF, PO85U (FP II) and Powergloss

Thus they don't dust much and help you get a hologram free finish and best gloss which is why I love to use them so much



Pad prep - for first application 1 mist of water or QD

For following applications, no water or QD at all (will mess up the way the oils spread) and clog up the pad quickly)

After that panel, clean the pad or soak it and get another one



At any time that 106 does not want to spread using any pads, it simply means that the paint does not like that polish as it has a lower tolerance to heat/friction) or the paint is of poor quality.



One example is my 1994 Toyota Hilux. It is impossible to use Menzerna on it at all as it just dries up and the machine hops all over the panel

As soon as I switch to prima, sonus or other, it's fine.
 
SVR I mean this in the most non-offensive way possible, but you have some of the strangest ideas I have ever seen on autopia.
 
Yep your are absolutely right, I am strange and the mad scientist of car care

Just wait until you see what I can do to exterior trims with foam pads and rotary at up to 1500 rpm

It wil blow everyone's mind



Thinking way outside the box ron. You gotta push the boundaries, even create new ones to take detailing to a level never seen before.
 
I will give this method a try, thanks SVR !!

I use with lots of polishes the Zenith method, I think that it was the member Brazo who explained it. It works very good.
 
Good observations. Speed causes friction, friction causes heat, heat serously affects these polishes performance both positively and negatively. Documenting findings will help others use them correctly.



I have had issues with 106ff on paints that were not of the "Nano" or Cerami-cleanr variety. Instant caking and pad hop that a wipe with isopropyl alcohol and changing to FPII fixed.
 
I wish I could get this sort of 'mad scientist' view with my set up! Maybe someone can help.



What about Intensive Polish via PC? AT this point I've only used it once and that was on my neighbors black GMC. We did the 2 rear qtr panels and just as I expected, I could see the polish breaking down after 3-4 minutes at speed 5-6. We did a second pass then moved on to the Final polish. To me and my neighbor it looked fantastic then we did a quick LSP and admired. I KNOW I CAN IMPROVE!



I'd love to have the sort of observations that SVR has.
 
Good write up SVR! Great observations!



That's exactly how I use all Menzerna products. I did a write up last year showing the same technique. This is how they will perform at their best.



Like you said, the biggest thing with Menzerna, especially SIP,106,85, you have to evenly spread the polish at a low rpm over the whole panel and you will see the oils spread. You want to do this spreading quickly to give it a uniform even coat, so when you do work the polish in at higher speeds, the abrasives and lubes work identical on the whole working area.
 
rydawg said:
Good write up SVR! Great observations!



That's exactly how I use all Menzerna products. I did a write up last year showing the same technique. This is how they will perform at their best.



Like you said, the biggest thing with Menzerna, especially SIP,106,85, you have to evenly spread the polish at a low rpm over the whole panel and you will see the oils spread. You want to do this spreading quickly to give it a uniform even coat, so when you do work the polish in at higher speeds, the abrasives and lubes work identical on the whole working area.
Click to expand...



How big of an area do you guys work with SIP, 106?
 
this is interesting guys...may I chime in for some help as well...



yesterday I took my rotary to my car for the first time, after A LOT of very successful scrap panel practice and did the bonnet of my Saab. 106FF on a 3M blue finishing pad gave me superb results with plenty of gloss :2thumbs: Worked at 900rpm to spread (2 passes eg over the entire surface twice), up to 1200 for 2-4 passes, then 1500/1600 for about 10 passes and back down to 900 for 2-4 passes to refine it.



Today though I went back to do the wing/fender and the minute I put the pad on the paint it was jumping and hopping and the polish was sticking in clumps to the paint really badly :( Only a wipe with QD would get it off.... I couldnt get it to work the same as the day before, so eventually went back to Megs #80 and it worked fine ;)



It was damper and not quite so warm outside today though, so maybe the conditions had something to do with it. Very frustrating as yesterday i thought I was getting the hang of all this :lol:
 
Good write up . I will give it a go . Thanks for sharing ..



On a funny note I do own a 1994 Hilux Toyota dark green since new .





Cheers , Jean Paul
 
Bigpikle, you're experiencing what everyone that uses SIP and/or 106ff eventually does. Sometimes they just don't want to play nice. As you mentioned, temperature and humidity do play an important part in how well these polishes will cooperate. A couple things that have always worked for me when they get stubborn:

1.Do a complete and thorough IPA wipedown on whatever surface you'll be polishing.

I'm going to quote rydawg for the next part...

2.
rydawg said:
Good write up SVR! Great observations!



That's exactly how I use all Menzerna products. I did a write up last year showing the same technique. This is how they will perform at their best.



Like you said, the biggest thing with Menzerna, especially SIP,106,85, you have to evenly spread the polish at a low rpm over the whole panel and you will see the oils spread. You want to do this spreading quickly to give it a uniform even coat, so when you do work the polish in at higher speeds, the abrasives and lubes work identical on the whole working area.
Click to expand...



The bold part is key, key, key. It absolutely *must* be spread *evenly* on the panel. If you don't, it'll clump, hop, and spit at you like an angry llama. If it's really being difficult to work with, I'll even use my finger to make sure it's evenly applied to my pad.



The last tip is to clean your pad before every application. Brush if you're using foam, spur if you're using wool.
 
Not that I can think of off the top of my head. A spur is a good tool to buy, though, if you're planning on using wool. Your local auto body supply store should carry them.
 
SuperBee364 said:
Bigpikle, you're experiencing what everyone that uses SIP and/or 106ff eventually does. Sometimes they just don't want to play nice. As you mentioned, temperature and humidity do play an important part in how well these polishes will cooperate. A couple things that have always worked for me when they get stubborn:

1.Do a complete and thorough IPA wipedown on whatever surface you'll be polishing.

I'm going to quote rydawg for the next part...

2.



The bold part is key, key, key. It absolutely *must* be spread *evenly* on the panel. If you don't, it'll clump, hop, and spit at you like an angry llama. If it's really being difficult to work with, I'll even use my finger to make sure it's evenly applied to my pad.



The last tip is to clean your pad before every application. Brush if you're using foam, spur if you're using wool.
Click to expand...



thanks for confirming what i suspected, although also thought user error may be the issue as well ;)



I do focus on spreading the polish evenly although on this fender there were a few angles etc that were catching me out a bit, so itprobably meant I didnt do it as well as I had planned....
 
SVR,

how does the 106FF look like after it has broken down or the time you are wiping it off. If you swipe it with your finger, does it feel oily or almost dry?

Thanks in advance
 
For the Menzerna gurus....do any of you have tips for working the products across panels that have molded channels in them? Take a look at the roof on the Element in this picture. Based off of what I have read here, it would seem that it would be hard to keep the coat of polish even across the surface, with all of the ridges and channels...

Dogs138.jpg
 
You could do the areas betwen the ridges as one application, then do the ridges themselves as a seperate one. It would be possible to do it all at once, but it would be a bit more difficult to keep the polish nice and even. On a day when the polish is being cooperative, I'd do it all at once. If it's misbehaving, i'd do the ridges seperately.
 
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