Black Fire TPnS

tedj101

tedj101

New member
Well, I used TPnS for the first time today. I wanted to get my wife's car looking better (the paint is in really good condition for a daily driver that doesn't get a lot of attention). Since I had recently "invested" in some TPnS, I thought I would use that as a light polish and cleaner before applying CS. Seemed like a good combination at the time.

While TPnS has a reputation for being very easy to use and pretty foolproof, I had problems. Well one problem. The product tended to gum up (sort of what you might expect if you used too much polish) and then get stuck in place. While I could get it off and start over (brute force technique), it was a royal pain and quite unexpected.

So, I went into the fora to see whether others had had similar problems and I found some had. Interestingly a pretty experienced user had this exact problem while using the product on a 2008 Honda CRV. Oddly enough, mine is a CRV too - though a 2012.

In any event, here is what I did. I washed and clayed the car (did a few other things too that aren't relevant here). Then I applied TPnS with a PC running at 5 on a number of different pads as I tried to diagnose the problem. I started with a Hex Logic White pad (which is what I usually use for light polishing). Once I became totally frustrated with that pad, I tried a flat white BnS. Then I tried a flat white LC. All these pads started to exhibit this problem after one section (about 18" square). I used a quick spray of pad conditioner when starting with a pad and a small circle of product. As that product wore out, i added 2 to 3 pea sized spots of product to the pad. (And these were le seuer peas, not those green giant kind.) I doubt that I used more than an ounce of product for the whole car. (Too much product would be what comes to mind first for this problem, but it wasn't that.) I also tried cleaning the pads using the terry cloth technique, but the pads were not fouled. They were still very clean.

Finally I switched to an LC green CCS (the softer one, not the cutting pad) and that did a little better - but it was still not good.

Having said all that, the product did a pretty nice job and, when topped with CS looks gorgeous - but I expected that. It was just more work than I thought should be necessary.

I have used Zaino and Klasse AIO's before sealing for years and have never had this problem (though those don't contain abrasive).

Any thoughts?

<TED>
 
gotta be a bad bottle of the stuff....I am working with new vette owners on the corvette forum that have never done detailing...we are using the "rapidfire" schedule -->clay, TPnS and CS as a base method. Over 25 done now, and not a single problem with TPnS in all parts of the country.
 
glen e said:
gotta be a bad bottle of the stuff....I am working with new vette owners on the corvette forum that have never done detailing...we are using the "rapidfire" schedule -->clay, TPnS and CS as a base method. Over 25 done now, and not a single problem with TPnS in all parts of the country.
Click to expand...

I wonder what would make a single bottle bad?

<TED>
 
that's pretty strange. maybe there is some sort of contamination somewhere along the way. possibly pads, whatever was on the vehicle to begin with, your cleaning process, etc. i've never had any problems with tpns and i use it on many different vehicles.
 
Diagnosing problems like this are never easy because of the wild variables involved...

1) How clean are the pads.... Are all previous residues from any previous polish completely removed? How about residues from the actual cleaner?

2) The type of paint it is being used on? It seems like CRV paint may not work well with the product.

3) What the paint has been exposed to recently and through out it's life... This can make a huge huge difference. Paint that has been weathered, exposed to high-silicone products, recently waxed or recently washed with certain products (for example, Meg's Gold Class Shampoo & Menzerna never seem to play nice) can have a huge affect on how products perform.

I remember having a discussion with Jason Rose, of Meguiar's fame, about getting products to work on on every paint. His answer was that if they can get a product to perform optimally on 80% of the paint systems, they are happy.

Here are some quick tips to make sure you get the best possible performance each time.

1) After washing and claying the paint, give it a wipe down with diluted IPA or a Panel Wipe-like product.

2) Adjust technique - In your case, it seems like the paint was very porous and absorbing some of the lubricants. Instead of reducing the amount of product on the pad, I would have primed it and added more.

3) Switch to a clean pad often.
 
Todd Helme said:
Diagnosing problems like this are never easy because of the wild variables involved...

1) How clean are the pads.... Are all previous residues from any previous polish completely removed? How about residues from the actual cleaner?

2) The type of paint it is being used on? It seems like CRV paint may not work well with the product.

3) What the paint has been exposed to recently and through out it's life... This can make a huge huge difference. Paint that has been weathered, exposed to high-silicone products, recently waxed or recently washed with certain products (for example, Meg's Gold Class Shampoo & Menzerna never seem to play nice) can have a huge affect on how products perform.

I remember having a discussion with Jason Rose, of Meguiar's fame, about getting products to work on on every paint. His answer was that if they can get a product to perform optimally on 80% of the paint systems, they are happy.

Here are some quick tips to make sure you get the best possible performance each time.

1) After washing and claying the paint, give it a wipe down with diluted IPA or a Panel Wipe-like product.

2) Adjust technique - In your case, it seems like the paint was very porous and absorbing some of the lubricants. Instead of reducing the amount of product on the pad, I would have primed it and added more.

3) Switch to a clean pad often.
Click to expand...

I don't think it was the pads. The first one had been used before (with Megs 205). The second was brand new (I was trying to remove variables).

The logical culprit that you mentioned was the shampoo. I didn't think about that, but I didn't use one of my "regular" shampoos. I used a turtle wax product that my wife bought some time ago. (I figured that it wouldn't leave much behind, but I could have been wrong on that - very wrong.)

I guess one other thing I should have tried was more product. In my experience, more product is rarely needed. My history is more toward needing to reduce the amount of product rather than increase it. Maybe I have trained myself too far<g>!

I'm going to start by trying it on another vehicle. (I have an old Dodge truck I need to reseal in a month or so.) If that works, I'll sneak back up on the CRV again. If it doesn't, I can just go back to Megs 205 which is my goto product for a quick polish.

I have a hard time believing that CRV paint is any different from, say, Accord paint coming out of the same factory at the same time for much the same reason that I don't believe in a single bad bottle of a product like this.

I really appreciate your feedback - and all the great information you provide on these fora!

<TED>
 
Honda is pretty soft paint. I never had issues with an AIO and Honda paint before. I'm gonna use my BF TPNS samples on it instead of my Mez this time and see how it comes out. I like my Mez on a orange foam with softer paints. Cuts better and finishes down really well.
Try and orange cutting pad. Just a thought the foam is denser so it will keep more product on the paint then the softer more porous foams.
 
0inDetail0 said:
Honda is pretty soft paint. I never had issues with an AIO and Honda paint before. I'm gonna use my BF TPNS samples on it instead of my Mez this time and see how it comes out. I like my Mez on a orange foam with softer paints. Cuts better and finishes down really well.
Try and orange cutting pad. Just a thought the foam is denser so it will keep more product on the paint then the softer more porous foams.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I went the other way to a slightly softer foam and it was better, but not good. I may try the orange next time too.

Gotta get a cloudy day to try it on the truck. (The truck doesn't fit in the garage<g>...

Thanks,
<TED>
 
0inDetail0 said:
Honda is pretty soft paint. I never had issues with an AIO and Honda paint before. I'm gonna use my BF TPNS samples on it instead of my Mez this time and see how it comes out. I like my Mez on a orange foam with softer paints. Cuts better and finishes down really well.
Try and orange cutting pad. Just a thought the foam is denser so it will keep more product on the paint then the softer more porous foams.
Click to expand...

Very good advice. Sometimes you have to go outside of the box to get a product to work. Switching to a more aggressive foam, sometimes, can give you better polish performance and a better finish (sounds weird, I know...). :yourrock:yourrock
 
Todd Helme said:
Very good advice. Sometimes you have to go outside of the box to get a product to work. Switching to a more aggressive foam, sometimes, can give you better polish performance and a better finish (sounds weird, I know...). :yourrock:yourrock
Click to expand...

Well here's an update - and a happy one! I brought my truck home (2005 Dodge RAM) and tried a test panel using TPnS on it after washing the same way I did with the Honda and using the same technique I used on the Honda. I even used one of the same pads (LC flat white polishing pad). The TPnS worked as advertised without any of the problems I had on the Honda. Go figure! There has to be some combination of something on the surface of the Honda that didn't like the TPnS. Can't imagine what it was, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I think in the fall I am going to use Pinnacle Black Label Diamond Coating on the Honda. I've never used that product, but I'll try putting it on my Winter Wheels to learn the technique.

Thanks for all your help!

<TED>
 
Dunno...on the drive accord.net and see the detailing forum....the second sticky is called "sealant for new accords" - it was written by me a year ago when I was a mod there. It's a schedule for clay, wash, TPNS, WD and CS.see that the thread is going on 13 pages or more with hundreds done...no a single TPNS problem with Honda paint, gotta be something in your mix....dunno what it is, but it's something....thread here:

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79730
 
I might be the "experienced" user OP references with the 2008 CRV (though I wouldn't call myself experienced yet myself). ;)

I have used TPnS and same technique and pads on all my Honda's and the CRV was the only one I had issues with. So there is something with that particular paint. My 2003 Accord and 2008 CRV both have same black paint, so don't know why it was fine on the Accord and not the CRV. Worked fine on my 2013 Accord also.

I don't think you have a bad bottle and I think you figured that out on your truck. On my CRV, I actually had problems with many different compound/polish/pad combos, so it wasn't just the TPnS at issue. I did do one spot on the roof (so it would inconspicuous if I goofed) where I wetsanded with 3000 grit, then Menz PF2500 on a white pad, and I had no issues with the polish then. So, seems there might be something with the very top layer of clear. IMO.
 
Did a 2006 Ford Taurus with decent paint. After washing and claying I used BF SRC Compound and BF Finishing Polish on whole trunk and half on the hood. The other half of hood I used BF TPS.
Definite difference on sun exposed areas so I did the whole hood with BF Compound and finishing polish. Did the rest of the car with TPS (didn't feel like doing the roof with compound!)
Used a white pad for polishing. LSP was BF Wet Diamond on a black pad. Guess what I did worked, car looked great!
Now considering getting the coating to try on a different car.
 
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