Do you ever leave scratches on a 3 stage?

LeMarque

LeMarque

New member
So this '03 M3 is my first 'paint correction' job and is/was totally swirled and scratched. The major scratches I sanded. I'm Just about done using a 3401 with M105 and an
LC Cyan Hydrotech. I plan on following up with M205 then maybe MENZ-PO87M; then a wax.

Swirls and minor scratches are gone. But what remains are a number of fine scratches that look like they came from brushing snow off with a broom; you have to really look hard to see them, although the car came from Fla.

I underbid 'cause I wanted something to build my portfolio and I'll try and pull it out into the daylite (there's no sun today) and take some pics. I've tried to take pics in the shop but the lighting is terrible and I just can't seem to capture the defects.

I guess what I'm asking is at what level of correction do you, if you do, say that's the best it gets. Or should I just sand 3 dozen or so scratches and call it a lesson learned?​
 
I have so many thoughts on this but since I am on my phone I will keep it short. Not every scratch can or should be attempted to remove or you risk compromising the clear. Your light is a concern. If you can see them in the crappy light of the shop the sun is only going to amplify them. Do your best and let the customer know why some scratches remain.
 
Agreed. Achieving a true 100% correction is a difficult and sometimes risky process, and honestly for a daily driver, its unnecessary in most cases. I would hit those scratches one more time and try to remove them as much as you can, but much more than that and you could go too far. Some flaws just can't be removed..at least not by any reasonable process. Knowing when to stop is just as important as knowing where to start.
 
The paint measured all over the place. From 4.6 to 3.5. I'm not sanding 3.5. In any event, with say a 4.6 measurement, how many mils before you feel it's gone to far?

Since it is my first paid correction, I am giving more then he's paying for; hoping for referrals for my new business.
 
Do you have any other compounds in your detailing supplies? Maybe trying a different one sometimes work for me when problems pop up like that. But you can't always chase scratches that looks like their there but at a different angle their not ( Ghost ).
 
zoomzoom mazda5 said:
Do you have any other compounds in your detailing supplies? Maybe trying a different one sometimes work for me when problems pop up like that. But you can't always chase scratches that looks like their there but at a different angle their not ( Ghost ).
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Actually, I'm liking the Megs MF w/D300. I just ordered some Optimum pads and SPRAY?! compound.

Anything you'd recommend I try?
 
Sometimes I use 3M Perfect-It 3000 or Menzerna PO203S Power Finish Polish with wool pads on a rotary and work it from about 800 to 1200 then back to 800 rpm's. It would be nice to see some pictures of the finish that you are taking about. I forgot one product that most don't use alot is the Klasse AIO which have save me a few times over the years.
 
I still have a learning curve with the rotary and wool. No hesitation on a beater, and I've not burned anything with it (yet). Hoping for something between a beater and the M class to gain some confidence.The LC cyan hydos on the 3401 only required a second pass on the most stubborn scratches.

Pics in a couple days for sure. I'm real happy with the M105/205 combo.
 
I am also in the middle of working on a M3 ('08, Interlagos Blue) and using the same combo (105/H2O Cayan). Paint is harder than I had expected and is going very slow, but I am going to be Opti-Coating so I want to get it to the best condition. It is a daily driver so I am not going to go crazy. 95% is more than sufficient to make the car look incredible.

You didn't mention what color the car is. You could probably save yourself some time and skip the 205. The Menz PO87mc should be able to finish down from 105 on most colors, black being the big ?. You will learn with experience how to estimate your time better, but even then you will still run into those ones that just don't go your way.

Be careful about offering discounts. Make sure the customer knows what your normal price is. They may provide referrals, but if they tell those referrals what they paid you could be forever stuck at those prices. My experience is that very few actually provide the # of referrals anyway so don't get your hopes too high. You will eventually find that key customer. I can trace back 90% of my business to 2 specific customers but it took a lot of work to find those.

Good luck and remember to post photos.
 
Nth Degree said:
I am also in the middle of working on a M3 ('08, Interlagos Blue) and using the same combo (105/H2O Cayan). Paint is harder than I had expected and is going very slow, but I am going to be Opti-Coating so I want to get it to the best condition. It is a daily driver so I am not going to go crazy. 95% is more than sufficient to make the car look incredible.

You didn't mention what color the car is. You could probably save yourself some time and skip the 205. The Menz PO87mc should be able to finish down from 105 on most colors, black being the big ?. You will learn with experience how to estimate your time better, but even then you will still run into those ones that just don't go your way.

Be careful about offering discounts. Make sure the customer knows what your normal price is. They may provide referrals, but if they tell those referrals what they paid you could be forever stuck at those prices. My experience is that very few actually provide the # of referrals anyway so don't get your hopes too high. You will eventually find that key customer. I can trace back 90% of my business to 2 specific customers but it took a lot of work to find those.

Good luck and remember to post photos.
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This one is Carbon Black Metalic. It came from my buddy's shop and although he does refer his customers to me, when he sees this, his going to be stoked. It's coming out beautifully. And I agree about discounts, but I have a feeling (well a bit more then a hope) that this customer will refer.

You're probably right about the Menz PO87mc. I try that next time.

What do you think about the LC H20's. A couple of mine have like 3 pin holes equidistant on the face; wondering if that's normal.

BTW- if I can ask, how much time, sans the opti-coat, do you think you'll have into it?
 
Guessing about 15 hours of compounding and polishing. Owner just picked it up for a daily driver. By the time all is said and done I will have around 25 hours into it, but the first day I was moving a bit slow. Just got back from a vacation and already need another one.:surfing Bad thing is I'm doing this one as trade out for legal work.:(
 
LeMarque said:
The paint measured all over the place. From 4.6 to 3.5. I'm not sanding 3.5. In any event, with say a 4.6 measurement, how many mils before you feel it's gone to far?

Since it is my first paid correction, I am giving more then he's paying for; hoping for referrals for my new business.
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Those paint measurements don't seem that crazy, fairly normal range of measurements. The paint itself seems to be a little on the thin side (not terribly so, still within the workable range). I would try to keep it to no more than 0.2 mils removed. If you were going to apply a permanent coating (such as Opti-Coat) as your LSP, you have a little bit more leeway with how much you can remove, but if you're going with a traditional wax/sealant I wouldn't push it.

Don't try and kill yourself chasing down each and every tiny little nick, scratch, or RID. That's a rabbit hole that you definitely don't want to go down! I generally have different standards based on the usage of the vehicle, and I'm guessing this isn't a high dollar show car or concours trophy winner, so trying to create that mythical 100% correction is an effort in futility.
 
To answer the thread question, yes there can be scratches left behind on a 3 stage, 4 stage, 5 stage, or X (insert number) stage.

It depends on how deep the scratches are. As suggested not every car can be made perfect nor is it worth making every car (that could be perfect) perfect. It is our job, as professionals, to recognize the potential of the client's car and to help them make an informed decision in what is in the best interest of their vehicle.
 
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