Upgrading garage lighting, electrical help please!

6

604Detailer

New member
Hey guys, after reading many threads on people upgrading their garage lighting with t8 48inch fluorescent lights and having great results, I think it's time to join the fun!

I am going to be getting 4 Of these
Commercial Electric | Whtie Shop Light-4 Feet | Home Depot Canada

With these bulbs. From what I've read these are the best!
Philips | 32 Watt T8 48 Inch Daylight - 2 Pack | Home Depot Canada


As of now my garage has two overhead lights only in the front. I plan on adding the 4 in the back. I have full access to the attic of my garage so running wires and mounting won't be a problem.

Heres where I need some help!
How do I connect the wiring so when I turn on my original two lights, the four new ones turn on as well?
What supplies do I need to get?

I saw on another thread that the person just added an outlet to each one of his new light but i wanted to "hard wire " it to the two original lights.

Thanks in advance!
 
604 detailer -

You are going to enjoy the additional lighting.

I have added 12 additional 4' 2bulb light fixtures to my garage ceiling on the same circuit that powered the one light in the center of the garage ceiling. The circuit breaker is a 15amp breaker. You will need to make sure you have a similar amp rating of your breaker for this light switch. Do you know if this Circuit breaker is connected to anything else, or is it just the lights in the garage ?

You will need to get either 14awg Romex indoor house wire, or 12awg Romex indoor house wire. The 14awg wire is adequate, the 12awg wire is thicker and more than adequate, but a little harder to work with. I personally use 12awg wire on everything I wire up especially in the garage for peace of mind. They sell it in boxes now that are I think 25 feet on up. Measure first how much you think you will need. If you are going to wire up through the ceiling into you attic, you may need to see if you have to put the wires up there in conduits or not. I didnt and know Im ok, as nothing is up there anyway. Romex is pretty tough wire with a tough sheath on it too.

All you have to do is first turn off the power to the in your case, the 2 lights you already have, by finding the circuit breaker in your power panel and turning the breaker to Off. Then test the lights again by turning them On at the switch, to verify you turned off the breaker.

All I did was find the Romex wire for that one light, splice the 3 wires into it, and take that 3-wire combination to each light, open up the light, to access the ballast resistor, splice the wires and a new set of wires there, close up the light, take that new set of wires coming out of it, to the next light, open it up , do the same thing, and keep going to all the lights.

The 3 wire colors are going to be Black = Hot wire, White = Neutral wire, and a copper unsheathed wire = Ground wire. You will want to wire the same color to the same color throughout.

So, in effect, each new light fixture will have a romex wire going into it, and then back out of it, to the next light in sequence until they are all wired up.

At Home Depot, they sell all colors of wire nuts, you want to get the ones that are Tan colored. This color will be big enought to accept 2+ - 12/14awg Romex wires easily and twist tightly.

Lastly, make sure all your Tan wire connectors are tight, bulbs installed, light fixtures hung or attached to the ceiling, go turn on the Circuit breaker, turn on the lights at the Switch and enjoy !

Good luck with this !
Dan F
 
Hey Dan,

Thanks for the very detailed and easy to understand reply!

Are these the connectors you are referring to? I can't find any tan colored ones on the website but I found these orange ones.
Marrette | Marrette No. 331 Orange - 50 piece box | Home Depot Canada

Also would this wire type do the job?
ROMEX | 14-2 CU NMD-90 WHITE JKT W/G CSA 75M | Home Depot Canada

So I went down to my home depot today and looked at the light fixture and found out that the bulbs are smaller than the ones I have at home! Are the bigger bulbs "t12"? I would assume the bigger bulbs give out more light.
I have two of these installed in the front of my garage right now.
Lithonia Lighting | 2'x4' Lay In Troffer | Home Depot Canada
With 4 F40T12/DX bulbs, they are pretty bright.

Would you suggest I get 2 of the '4 bigger bulb' light fixture or stick to my original plan of 4 of the '2 smaller bulb' fixture? Which would be brighter? The smaller bulb ones would cost about 100$ for fixtures and bulbs and the bigger bulb ones would cost about 150$

Thanks again!
 
If your wiring is going to be surface mounted (not inside a wall) you need to enclose it in conduit; typically EMT... in which case you wouldn't use Romex. You'd want to use simple electrical grade solid or stranded core wire.

Also remember any splices need to be inside junction boxes or, as mentioned, inside the fixtures themselves -- just don't stack too many wires inside any one light fixture.

12AWG (12/2) = 20A circuits
14AWG (14/2) = 15A circuits

Just like with foam buffing pads you can't always just go based on color when it comes to wire nuts, simply look for ones rated to hold the number of conductors you need them to hold in the gauge of wire you're using.

T12 lamps are less energy efficient and put out less light than T8 lamps (actually, T12 is being phased out altogether so you don't want to purchase them at this point). T12 = 40W, T8 = 32W of power consumption per lamp.
 
604Detailer --
You are welcome !

The winged wirenuts I am referring to are --

Ideal 341 Tan Swept-Wing Twisters (100-Pack) Model 30-341P $9.94 Internet Special Store Exclusive I cut and pasted this off the Home Depot Website, using Search bar, winged wire nuts, page-2.

I like the winged wirenuts better because they give you more leverage; this type of wire x 3 for each connection is a little hard to twist tightly, and you want them nice and tight.

Corrected-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your link for the Romex is good except the wire shown is 14/2 = 14awg 2-conductor wire and I dont see a ground wire in that pic you sent. It needs to say 14/2awg w/ground.
Corrected-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your lights that are already installed in your ceiling are going to have 3 wires, a Black, a White, and a bare copper Ground wire. You want the Romex you buy to have 3 wires of solid Copper, not stranded, not Aluminum, you want solid Copper. The Black and White wires will be enclosed in a black and a white sheath respectively, to prevent them from touching anything but the connections, and the Ground wire will usually have a paper sheath wrapped around it that comes off easily and isnt really needed.

The lights in your link have 4 each 32watt T8 tubes - that has to be way brighter than 2 of the T-12's easily. If you can get that fixture, that would be really nice.

I have the bigger Daylight Tubes in all my fixtures (Phillips F40/T12 Daylight Deluxe) and they work great. I dont know how well the thinner T8's light output is compared to the T12 bulbs but perhaps someone reading this that has the T8's in the 4' size will chime in ??

Good luck with this !
Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
Youre link for the Romex is good except the wire shown is 14/2 = 14awg 2-conductor wire.
Click to expand...

14/2 has two conductors and a ground, which is correct for what he will need (if he's burying the wires in a wall).

45836f07-6ef5-4866-8a29-f0730cc63ea8_400.jpg


14/3 has three conductors and a ground, which is primarily used for double-pole (two-way) switches, not fixtures or outlets.

300731_K_2_L.jpg
 
Sorry Charlie - I was looking at the wire he linked to and it only had 2 conductors in it by the looks of it.
Yes, the box should read 14/2 w/ground if I remember correctly. I went back up and corrected that post ----
Thanks for the nice pics too !
Dan F
 
You will want the wiring to match what is already powering the circuit. If it is a 15a circuit, it *should* have 14ga wire(20a = 12ga). Trace the line to see what is already on the circuit. You do not want to overload it. A 15a circuit can handle a continuous load of 12a, or 80% of the maximum output. You are going to be adding 256 watts. Watts/volts = amps....so 256/120 = @2.25 amps that you will be adding to the load. As long as there are no more than 9.75 amps already, you will be fine. This should include appliances(tools) that will be powered by outlets.

For example, lets say you are going to use your pc7424 and the outlet is inline with the lights. That uses @4.5a. If you have the circuit maxed with continuous use items, like lights or a heater, the DA will probably blow the breaker. I think you get where I am going.

As for the lamps. T8 lamps are as good as the t12 when it comes to output. They are powered by electronic ballasts, which means they are more energy efficient. Also, if one burns out, the other will stay lit. As far as color(brightness), t8 lamps use a CRI(color rendering index) much like HID lamps in cars to determine the output. You'll get a 735, 741, 835, 841 instead of cw/ww/d as used with the t12 lamps. Higher number means a more pure white light.
 
smitty5150 said:
t8 lamps use a CRI(color rendering index) much like HID lamps in cars to determine the output. You'll get a 735, 741, 835, 841 instead of cw/ww/d as used with the t12 lamps. Higher number means a more pure white light.
Click to expand...

Listed on the package will be three numbers to look at:

Lumens (light output).

Color Temperature.

CRI (Color Rendering Index).

Color temp is measured in Kelvin; typically 5000-6500K are considered "daylight" and for CRI, the closer the number is to 100, the more accurate the output will be. As far as the lumens, the higher the number the more light it will emit at the rated wattage. For example:

IMG_0045.JPG
 
Thank you for all the replies!

Here are some pictures i just took of my breaker box. I think the only thing thats being powered is the outlet that the garage opener is plugged into and the two lights switches i have in the garage.

imagedkm.jpg



Not quite sure what this breaker powers.. maybe the night time light just outside that garage that turns on when it gets dark.


img0632x.jpg


Here are some pictures of my garage. As you can see it is very dark in the back where i am planning on adding the new light fixtures.







The lights on the left side are daylight deluxe t12s and the one on the right is the t12 utility. I am planning on switching those out to t8s daylight ones if i can find the larger size bulbs.

The spool of 14-2 romex wire has a ground in it and the other two in it as well. I looked at it today at home depot.

As you can see i have full access to the attic of the garage so i am going to be running all the wires inside there.

So when i splice into the romexs, i should do it all within the fixture? Cant just cut it anywhere along the wire?

Thanks everyone for helping out so far!
 
604Detailer --

Thanks for posting the great pics ! Looks like you have room in your GE Panel to add a few electrical circuits for future use too. Nice !

The 2 breakers that say 100a on them are your Main breakers that are connected to the Utility's 200amp service to run your entire panel. These 2 you would turn off to disconnect all electrical power in your house and garage, wherever you have electrical power.

The other 2 breakers that say15a on them are running something that requires a lot more power (30amps at 220/240vac) like a Oven, Stove, Dryer, etc. You should find out what it is and mark next to them for future reference someday. Easiest way is to turn off the 2 breakers, and go start up those big items and see which one has no power.

Yes you can splice the wiring in anywhere you want, but the Electrical Code for your area is probably going to require that all splices are put into a box, so the wire will come into the box from 2 different sides, etc., spliced inside the box, and go out to the next light, and repeat.

I know, its kind of a a pain to take a light apart, and splice your 2 romex wires inside, but it will end up being neater inside the attic, if you decide to enclose all the romex up there in conduit. Its up to you on what you want to do here. I chose to not run all wires into conduit but that's just me.. :)

Glad to hear that the Romex wire you found has the ground wire as well, this is what you can use then.

Looks like you are going to be on your way here, just be absolutely sure that you cut off the breaker to the garage lights before you start any work on this, ok ?? Turn the lights on, find the breaker, turn the breaker to OFF, see the lights go out.

Good luck with this -
Dan F
 
Hey Dan! I appreciate all the help you've been giving me!:yourrockI have one last question before I start my installation! Here's a picture I drew on my iPad of my plan.( yes I know I suck at drawing...!):rofl

This is how my attic looks like at the moment.
Red = what's up there right now. ( bottom left is the light switch.)
Black = what I am planning on doing, the 4 squares would be the fixtures.
Blue = entrance to attic
The square next to the entrance is an outlet.

imagevtw.jpg




Would I be okay to splice in the middle there and put it inside a junction box? Instead of splicing inside one of the original fixtures?
 
604Detailer -

Sorry for the late reply - have a honking big GMC Yukon XL in the garage to detail..

Yes, you can connect the black color wires above like your drawing is laid out just fine as long as there is some slack in this wire.. Is there?
.
Get a deep box if possible to be able to hold all the wires to start this off..
If you have any slack at all in that first wire run from the switch to the first light, pull it to the point where you are going to cut and splice. What you are going to do is cut that wire and then want it to fit into a box of a certain width and it may not have enough slack at both ends to do this, follow me ?

This is why sometimes its easier to just wire into an existing light and bring the wire that is already in the electrical circuit over to the next light..

Did you get or do you have some wire strippers ? They will come in handy to help you strip off the ends of the black and white wires and the also have blades to cut wire too. They sell a romex stripper, and it kind of works, but its probably easier to just use a single edge razor blace, carefully slice the romex sheath, trying not to cut the black or white wires under it, so you can pull it back off the 3 wires and start to work Cut the excess sheath off so its neat.

Looks like you are getting closer to having your new lights ! This is exciting ! Im the only one around my neighborhood with a huge amount of lights, and everyone that drives by looks over.. Then they are temporarily blinded, and they crash their car.... J/K :)

Good luck
Dan F
 
604Detailer said:
Hey guys, after reading many threads on people upgrading their garage lighting with t8 48inch fluorescent lights and having great results, I think it's time to join the fun!

I am going to be getting 4 Of these
Commercial Electric | Whtie Shop Light-4 Feet | Home Depot Canada

With these bulbs. From what I've read these are the best!
Philips | 32 Watt T8 48 Inch Daylight - 2 Pack | Home Depot Canada


As of now my garage has two overhead lights only in the front. I plan on adding the 4 in the back. I have full access to the attic of my garage so running wires and mounting won't be a problem.

Heres where I need some help!
How do I connect the wiring so when I turn on my original two lights, the four new ones turn on as well?
What supplies do I need to get?

I saw on another thread that the person just added an outlet to each one of his new light but i wanted to "hard wire " it to the two original lights.

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

604Detailer,

Is it OK if I call you 604? (How about a first name?)

I've rewired my master bathroom, a 60' long crawlspace, and my garage in the last three years. So I have direct experience with your project.

The first issue is the electrical codes that apply to your location. From your references to HD Canada, it looks like you live in Canada. So the Canadian Electrical Code applies. All of the folks who replied to this thread live in the US, so we are governed by the National Electrical Code. These are similar, but different: Differences Between Canadian Electrical Code & National Electrical Code | eHow.com. Whatever you do needs to be in compliance with the CEC or NEC depending on where you live. And any overriding local codes.

If you live in the US, buy a copy of "Code Check: Electrical". I don't know if a similar publication exists for Canada. Great info in a VERY concise format.

Random tips:

- Make sure that the lighting fixtures are applicable to "old work". For example, some Troffler fixtures are meant to be attached to joists before installing sheet rock.

- Unless you have a very high ceiling, get fixtures with a cover - no bare bulbs. There's nothing like breaking a fluorescent bulb to get the addrenaline running.

- Screw wire nuts TIGHT. Then pull on the wires HARD. If you can pull one out, then the wire nut isn't tight enough.

- For splicing a wire, always use an electrical box or inside a fixture. And make sure that you have enough slack in the wire to pull both cut ends 6" inside the electrical box. (Don't ask me how I know this.)

- If you are running wires in an attic, make sure that they are supported by joists (if parallel to the joist) or a separate board (if running across the joists). NEVER, EVER, run unsupported romex wire across joists! Never run wire directly on top of joists.

- I assume that your lighting circuits and socket circuits are two different. Keep them separate. If you install a electrical circuit for tools and you live in the US, the circuit breaker has to be a GFCI and not just a regular circuit breaker.

- In the US, if you make modifications to your circuits, the entire circuit needs to comply with the CURRENT electrical code (not the old code). Current electrical codes are typically much more stringent than old electrical codes.

- If you install new T-8 fixtures, I'd suggest converting your old fixtures to T-8 also. This involves replacing the old T-12 ballast with a T-8 balast (electronic not magnetic) and replacing the bulbs - about 20 minutes per fixture. Then buy a supply of T-8 bulbs in bulk, which will greatly reduce the cost per bulb and reduce your hassle factor.

One last suggestion... Plan everything first. Then make sure it is code complient. Then buy the supplies and install them. This will reduce your grief. Again, don't ask me how I know this. :cool:

Links to garage and crawl space project galleries:

http://danclark.smugmug.com/Other/Garage-Project/22129149_QTrQ5V
http://danclark.smugmug.com/Other/Crawlspace-Deck-Project/17043191_DtSZ4K


Good luck with your project.

Dan.
 
I'm in the mood for a little thread revival tonight
attachment.php


I am in a similar boat as the OP but just moved into a very old house with terrible garage lighting. After the recommendation of many detailing friends I plan to go with the T5 HO fluorescent bulbs and fixtures. Here's my little catch though...I am renting this house, and only plan to be here for a year or two. I have full permission from the owner to modify the garage; in fact, I've already gutted it and disposed of 400+lbs of junk and am pressure washing the concrete and painting the walls tomorrow. After living in apartments for the last 10 years I'm pumped about having my own garage space finally! So, I am looking for a simple way to wire in the fluorescent lights so that I can easily take them with me when I move out. I have zero experience with wiring any kind of lighting but have learned a fair amount from reading this thread.

Right now there is a single light bulb on one of the joices and it's connected to a light switch that is on the outside of the garage...:wall strange. There are a fair amount of outlets around the garage but I'm not sure what switch they go to yet...I will do some testing tomorrow.

I have an open attic garage so you can see all of the joists. I was thinking about maybe suspending the fixtures from chains since that would be easy to remove and take with me as well.

So, is there a simpler way to install fluorescent lights that will be easy to remove and take with me for later?
 
Brunkel -
Welcome and welcome to the future world of a nicely lit garage !! I love it !!!

The word for those beams is joist or the plural - joists.. :)

Please look carefully at the existing wiring you are planning to splice into and make sure it looks in good shape, not very ancient, and not major or minor damage to the sheathing that you can see..

Look at the switch you are planning to use, and if possible how about trying to relocate it just inside the garage from where its mounted outside, if possible...

It might not be a bad idea to possibly replace that switch if its old and not looking so great... If you replace it, make sure you get a 15Amp switch to match the circuit that you identified from the panel and insured you read the rating on the on/off switch and it read 15Amps, ok ?

Another thing I always do is wire in a couple of 20AMP dedicated circuits on their own 20 AMP breakers, so any power tools, steamer, Extractor, Master Blaster, etc., Im using is not adding to the load of all those lights...

You would want to get 20Amp circuit breaker/s, 12AWG Romex wire and 20AMP electrical outlets which will look a little different than the normal electrical outlet, but of course, work the same way just fine.. And if you wanted to run this off a switch for whatever reason, then you have to get a 20Amp rated switch as well...

When I moved into another house once that had an unfinished ceiling like yours, I just went to H/D and bought a pack of stainless steel wire and used it to hang 14 - 4 ft T-8 Shop lights (2 tubes per light).

This wire is of course very thin, easy to work with and cut, and can carry way more weight than the weight of a light fixture...

I just put the lights between 2 joists with the stainless steel wire supporting each end of the light fixture on that one joist, and the other end of the light fixture on the next joist..

It all worked great, and when it was time to remove, took just a few minutes of cutting the wire and lowering the long string of lights to the floor, and putting them all, still connected, into a big long cardboard box...

I knew I was leaving in a year, so I made this temporary on purpose... You may choose to make your installation more permanent or not...

I know its not code, but I did not put the Romex between each light fixture into any conduit, etc., and just made sure to not be sticking anything into the air up there that might cause an issue.. I did not have any plywood on top of these joists for storage on purpose, so I would not have anything up there that would interfere with my light wiring..

Of course, it is always best to follow the standard electrical code and if you have to get it inspected, well then for sure, it has to be done to the code..

I have been around about every type of A/C and D/C electricity, phases, etc., for around 50 years, so I feel comfortable doing it my way...

Again, the electrical code is going to be the best, and safest way always...

I have not seen T5 HO lights or bulbs so will be interested in learning more about them..

Good luck with this ! Be careful !!! Dont rush !!
 
Stokdgs said:
Brunkel -
Welcome and welcome to the future world of a nicely lit garage !! I love it !!!

The word for those beams is joist or the plural - joists.. :)

Please look carefully at the existing wiring you are planning to splice into and make sure it looks in good shape, not very ancient, and not major or minor damage to the sheathing that you can see..

Look at the switch you are planning to use, and if possible how about trying to relocate it just inside the garage from where its mounted outside, if possible...

It might not be a bad idea to possibly replace that switch if its old and not looking so great... If you replace it, make sure you get a 15Amp switch to match the circuit that you identified from the panel and insured you read the rating on the on/off switch and it read 15Amps, ok ?

Another thing I always do is wire in a couple of 20AMP dedicated circuits on their own 20 AMP breakers, so any power tools, steamer, Extractor, Master Blaster, etc., Im using is not adding to the load of all those lights...

You would want to get 20Amp circuit breaker/s, 12AWG Romex wire and 20AMP electrical outlets which will look a little different than the normal electrical outlet, but of course, work the same way just fine.. And if you wanted to run this off a switch for whatever reason, then you have to get a 20Amp rated switch as well...

When I moved into another house once that had an unfinished ceiling like yours, I just went to H/D and bought a pack of stainless steel wire and used it to hang 14 - 4 ft T-8 Shop lights (2 tubes per light).

This wire is of course very thin, easy to work with and cut, and can carry way more weight than the weight of a light fixture...

I just put the lights between 2 joists with the stainless steel wire supporting each end of the light fixture on that one joist, and the other end of the light fixture on the next joist..

It all worked great, and when it was time to remove, took just a few minutes of cutting the wire and lowering the long string of lights to the floor, and putting them all, still connected, into a big long cardboard box...

I knew I was leaving in a year, so I made this temporary on purpose... You may choose to make your installation more permanent or not...

I know its not code, but I did not put the Romex between each light fixture into any conduit, etc., and just made sure to not be sticking anything into the air up there that might cause an issue.. I did not have any plywood on top of these joists for storage on purpose, so I would not have anything up there that would interfere with my light wiring..

Of course, it is always best to follow the standard electrical code and if you have to get it inspected, well then for sure, it has to be done to the code..

I have been around about every type of A/C and D/C electricity, phases, etc., for around 50 years, so I feel comfortable doing it my way...

Again, the electrical code is going to be the best, and safest way always...

I have not seen T5 HO lights or bulbs so will be interested in learning more about them..

Good luck with this ! Be careful !!! Dont rush !!
Click to expand...

Hey Stockdgs thanks for the in-depth reply! Joist spelling corrected :innocent:

I'm looking forward to working on this project although am pretty intimidated with all the electrical work. Especially since the electrical in the garage is ANCIENT!

So here are some pics of the garage right now:

I cleared out all of the flat plywood on top of the joists when I moved in. They had it for storage with junk from the 50s up there...over 400lbs of junk! Nice and clean now.
14195782169_ee5a30203d_c.jpg


And....here is what I'm dealing with. This stuff looks ancient.
14379087161_4190383ef9_c.jpg


Close up...
14195853710_1b5d1e6de3_c.jpg


Light switch on the outside. I think I'll keep it. It looks fine...:eek: :vomit:

14382410535_0449dd0b43_c.jpg


Here's my breaker box in the basement. It doesn't look like there are any open circuits. Will this be a problem?
14402587473_008bf6f3bd_c.jpg


I definitely plan on running sidekick blaster, shop vac, buffers, and more power tools out of the garage so you make a good point about not having those on the same circuit as the lights. Will that be possible with my set up?

Thanks for your help!
 
Brunkel -

Wow, some nice, clear, pictures - great job !

Nice, very old garage -

Your Panel shows no empty slots left over for adding new circuit breakers, so you will not be able to add new circuits to your panel..

You will have to make do with what you have..

Whether or not this will be a problem for you will depend on how much of a load is assigned to this circuit already perhaps somewhere else, or not, and then how much load you add to the circuit when you are up and running..

The best thing that can happen is that only 1 circuit on 1 breaker is assigned to the garage only..
What you can do initially, is to turn on the light in the garage, then turn off 1 breaker at a time, (start with the 15AMP breakers), and see which one turns off the light in the garage...

Then, go into the house, and see if anything else is not working that was working before you turned that breaker off...

You need to be accurate here, to get an idea of what that circuit is carrying all the time.

If it is just that light or perhaps that light and the garage door opener (if you have one), then that would be the best scenario for your lighting and power tool project..

Do you have an Electrician in the family or a friend who is one or knows one? It would always be good to get another set of eyes and experience to look at your project with you.. And good Electricians will have the test equipment to measure how much load you have on each circuit when they are in use, and be able to help you with the math if you need to do this..

I see a lot of 20 amp circuits on those breakers - what brand circuit breakers are those ? I cant read the little writing.. they look like Challenger, but Im not sure...

I am assuming that this light you pictured is then powered on and off from that really ancient looking light switch that you said is outside the garage, right ?

Dan F
 
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