I'm Confused?

Beemerboy

Beemerboy

Just One More Coat
In light of the recent recalls of Toyota's for the gas pedals sticking.

I can't help but to wonder if I was in a car that I could get the pedal to release. Is turning off the car, putting it into neutral, reserve, park, hitting the parking brake and standing on the brake itself not an option?

I was 18 wheel truck driver for many years (12) and lost my brakes on a decent one afternoon on a pretty steep hill. I down shifted as fast as I could, rode the jake brake, that's a compression release at the same time hanging on the horn and flashing lights. I made it to the bottom of the hill in one piece. I can't say that I didn't clean a few things after that:D

Maybe these drivers that have crashed where in situations that they had not time to react, inexperienced drivers or panicked. I don't know?
 
Don't know the specifics about all of the issues, but I have a feeling reaction time has at least something to do with it. A reported local incident, the driver had a scant @6 ft. (the width of a sidewalk) to react before plowing into the store front. Not quite enough time to avert the collision.
 
It has happened to me twice, both GM vehicles.
BTW, I still drive GM vehicles.
In both instances, I turned off the ignition switch and was able to come to a safe stop.
The first time, I was 16 years old and experience wasn't a big factor. Common sense was. Engine running fast, car going fast, shut off engine. car no longer goes fast. Not too tough, even for a 16 year old. :)

I have to think panic is a big factor as well as people not understanding how a car works. The 911 operator must not have suggested turning off the ignition in the case that seems to get the most publicity. That was probably due to not knowing about cars rather than panic.

I think most of us on these forums are fairly car savvy, but there's probably quite a few that have no knowledge or interest in how things work.
 
Mr. Clean said:
Don't know the specifics about all of the issues, but I have a feeling reaction time has at least something to do with it. A reported local incident, the driver had a scant @6 ft. (the width of a sidewalk) to react before plowing into the store front. Not quite enough time to avert the collision.
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I assuming in this case it was a very low speed parking lot thing?

I agree no reaction time, maybe hit the brake but by that time you are already hitting the object
 
Beemerboy said:
I assuming in this case it was a very low speed parking lot thing?
I agree no reaction time, maybe hit the brake but by that time you are already hitting the object
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Yes, it was. No bodily injuries, though according to the lady's husband who was interviewed, Toyota has lost one customer.
 
Mr. Clean said:
Yes, it was. No bodily injuries, though according to the lady's husband who was interviewed, Toyota has lost one customer.
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This will hurt them in the end, but they are still IMO very reliable built cars. As cars contiue to use software for various funtions and hand held smart phones contunie to improve and add on features. I can't help but think this could be a gorwing issue.

The airlines have this under control, meaning you have to turn off all wireless stuff on take off and landings.

I'm not saying that's Toyota's current problem but its a growing area of concern. My blackberry when its transmitting in my car, the radio hums with static
 
Wont turning off the engine render the steering useless? As in the steering column will lock? Agree though, shifting to neutral and hitting the brakes sounds like the winner. I am sure some were inexperienced, or in shock and didn't react in time. When I worked at a dealership, the owner did a break job. Well I got in and started backing up a little. (in a shop with the bay doors closed) The breaks weren't bled, and I had no breaks I threw it in park and hit the emergency brake, but by that time, I had already gone through the shop door. It was just a case of not having enough time to react "enough".

It was fun though. I bet next time the owner of the car lot does a break job, he finishes it before he gives the keys to anyone....
 
Tex Star Detail said:
Wont turning off the engine render the steering useless? As in the steering column will lock?
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Not on our GM vehicles.
There is a position that is before the "lock" position that allows the steering wheel to function and the transmission can be shifted.
Obviously, you lose the power steering which wouldn't be an insurmountable problem for most men and many if not all women. When the vehicle is in motion, it is not nearly as difficult to steer.
Don't know about Toyotas, but I would think it would be very similar.

Also, even though you would lose the power braking, most vehicles have enough reserve for at least part of or even most of one stop.
 
I can remember when I was 18, after painting the engine, some paint over spray got on the throttle linkage. I was driving down the road and the throttle wouldn't go back to idle. I stepped on the brakes, pulled over to the side of the road, left the transmission in drive, and turned the key off. By leaving it in drive, the engine wouldn't rev up like it would have it I put it in neutral or park. By thinking about things like this, will help you in the future it it happens. Like the time my hood popped open when I was driving, I bent over and looked through the gap between the hood and firewall. I was able to see well enough to pull over safely.
 
I think the people who are being critical of those who haven't done what we see as being obvious are forgetting about the panic in the moment. Also, many people who drive cars don't even know what the temperature gauge means, let alone what neutral is for. Those who do throw the car into neutral may become scared when the engine goes screaming to redline and bounces off the rev limiter. In some cases I can see them putting it back into gear to avoid engine damage even though the fuel cutoff won't allow it. Again...lack of automotive knowledge.

I personally believe the fault lies in the drive-by-wire module as some people have been able to keep their cool. But when they tried to lift the gas pedal with their foot, they've found it at the top of its travel yet the car continues to speed up.
 
If I recall, didn't one guy have time to call 911 so he had plenty of time to do something.

It just pay to be prepared and not just panic. There have been cases where people thought they were pushing the brake rather than pedal but who knows in many cases unless the pedal is stuck after the crash.
 
Bunky said:
If I recall, didn't one guy have time to call 911 so he had plenty of time to do something.

It just pay to be prepared and not just panic. There have been cases where people thought they were pushing the brake rather than pedal but who knows in many cases unless the pedal is stuck after the crash.
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The incident that most of you are talking about was in California and it was a Lexus it don't have a key to turn off.
The driver had left his car for service and this was a loaner he had never drove one before.

With no one explaining how it worked he was pushing on the stop bottom and at over 120 MPH he probably was in panic mode and kept pushing the button but in order to stop the thing you must push the button and hold it for 3 to 5 seconds before it will shut down so all this talk about turning the key off does not apply.

I lot of people can barley drive while everything is working correct they don't have a clue what to do when things go wrong.

Why push for 3 to 5 seconds why did Toyota do that when you operate a piece of machinery it has a stop button and when you push it the thing stops you don't need to hold it in and wait for it to stop.

Way I see it just one more screw up.

The button is a vanity thing most folks have used a key switch but all you need to do is read the above posts to see that people are NOT familiar with this setup.
 
whatever the case is driver error or a real problem......the media has a hold of it now. It's the new story.................Haiti has started to take a back seat to this. The media will just drive it into the ground.Doom and Gloom. All cars have had something like this happen over the years............It's just a bad deal for everyone that either owns a Toyota or Lexus, the manufacture, and worse the dealer.I hope that the Media ...won't put such a demise on a long time good product. The Media...is looking to just find all the people that have had a bad experience, what about the people that still stand behind Toyota? I am sure they out weigh the dissatisfied ones !
 
While they (the media) may be seeking out some customers with first hand knowledge, I don't believe they are manufacturing witnesses. I also don't view the coverage necessarily as a witch hunt. The problem appears to represents a legitimate potential safety issue. Forewarned is forearmed and all that.
 
Mr. Clean said:
While they (the media) may be seeking out some customers with first hand knowledge, I don't believe they are manufacturing witnesses. I also don't view the coverage necessarily as a witch hunt. The problem appears to represents a legitimate potential safety issue. Forewarned is forearmed and all that.
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At this time, I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I do feel that the media is quite capable of manufacturing evidence and manipulating facts.
I remember the actual igniting of the fuel tanks of a domestic pickup to insure they exploded for the video that was being made.
Unfortunately, I put the media, politicians, and lawyers at about the same level of trust. And it's not very high. :)
 
well like they say ........"what do you call 50,000 lawyers chained together at the bottom of the ocean? ".............................A GOOD START !
 
black bart said:
The incident that most of you are talking about was in California and it was a Lexus it don't have a key to turn off.
The driver had left his car for service and this was a loaner he had never drove one before.

With no one explaining how it worked he was pushing on the stop bottom and at over 120 MPH he probably was in panic mode and kept pushing the button but in order to stop the thing you must push the button and hold it for 3 to 5 seconds before it will shut down so all this talk about turning the key off does not apply.

I lot of people can barley drive while everything is working correct they don't have a clue what to do when things go wrong.

Why push for 3 to 5 seconds why did Toyota do that when you operate a piece of machinery it has a stop button and when you push it the thing stops you don't need to hold it in and wait for it to stop.

Way I see it just one more screw up.

The button is a vanity thing most folks have used a key switch but all you need to do is read the above posts to see that people are NOT familiar with this setup.
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That helps explain what happened in that case.
Having never read the full article, I was not aware of the push button ignition switch. Don't think I have ever seen one.
 
CharlesW said:
That helps explain what happened in that case.
Having never read the full article, I was not aware of the push button ignition switch. Don't think I have ever seen one.
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:huh:

You don't keep up with new cars much, do you? I can't think of one company that doesn't have at least one model with push-button start now days. On some it's optional but on the higher level models it's standard.
 
OCDinPDX said:
:huh:

You don't keep up with new cars much, do you? I can't think of one company that doesn't have at least one model with push-button start now days. On some it's optional but on the higher level models it's standard.
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Not at all.
If I'm not in the market for something I don't pay any attention to what the "latest" gimmick is. I don't have much interest in something I don't plan to buy.
Higher level models of vehicles definitely fall under that category.

Are you saying that they have push button ignition switches in many models or are you referring to push button starter switches?
I do think I remember seeing an advertisement showing a push button starter switch, but I didn't even notice the make of vehicle.
My thought was, "Wow, what an advanced concept. A push button starter just like I had on my 1941 Ford". Like I said, I don't think I had seen or for that matter, even heard of a push button ignition switch.

Actually, ignoring the latest and greatest has served me well.
Missed the Edsel, Yugo, Vega, Pinto, Gremlin, 4-6-8 Cadillac, GM passenger car diesel to name several.
I chose those since they were all touted highly by the automotive press as being real progress.
 
My wife's Highlander has the push button ignition switch / smart key set up. In the manual it does state that in the event you need to turn it off while moving, shift to neutral and hold the button for three seconds.

1) Most people don't read the manual.
2) If this was a loaner car, you'd be unfamiliar with that nuance.
 
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