How to get a spot free finish???

[Elonheater32]

Nothing is more irritating to me when I give my car a nice bath in the shade and immediately dry it off only to find it covered in water spots.
I have been seeing some ads pop up on my Facebook feed for filtering systems that allows for a spot free wash. Are such filtration systems the only way to ensure a spot free wash? If so.... what are some good ones out there?

 

[sfckelley]

I have a CR Spotless system I do the final rinse with and I am happy with it. The only issue is if there is any dust, pollen, etc in the air while the vehicle is drying, it will spot.

 

[Accumulator]

If the water contains minerals/dirt/etc. those things can get left on the finish. Gotta either eliminate them (filtering/softening/etc.) or get *all* the water off before it dries.

My previous shop had *TERRIBLE* water, hard, sediment, you name it (sure couldn`t drink it). I was still able to avoid most waterspots by working my [tail] off during the drying process. My current (home) shop has filtered/softened water and it`s a *much* easier version of the same thing if only because the spots I do get are easily wiped away with [some kind of Detailing Spray] on a plush MF.

Using the CRS can help quite a bit, but I only use it for rinsing (lest I go through its media really fast) and it`s awfully hard to displace the "regular" water from the previous steps so that there`s *only* DI water left, at least on my vehicles which all retain lots of water.

Simply no free lunch IMO...some vehicles retain a lot of water (like..all of mine ) and it eats up tons of time getting all the water off before it has a chance to spot: Blow 99% of the water off in a few minutes with the AirWand/etc., blow more out of the nooks and crannies with the compressor, dry vehicle the rest of the way (this much of the Drying only takes ~15 minutes and at this point the vehicle is "dry" by most standards), and/but then spend *ages* going back over it with the compressor until all the water is truly gone. Just takes as long as it takes.

 

[Elonheater32]

I have seen the CR system for around $240 and also Simple Chuck for the same price. Is there a difference between these two? Any other brands recommended? Also, I am wondering why you guys don`t use these spot free systems for the entire wash instead of just the final rinse? Is it because it will suck up the filtering media and you will have to replace a lot more often?
Also, what is the best way to ensure that water does not dry up in the process of washing the car? For example lets say I have already washed the roof of the car and am now working on the quarter panels... do you guys still mist the roof just to keep it wet so it does not have a chance to dry?

 

[Lonnie]

Elonheater32:
Are you washing with well-water from your property/house or are you using a municipal-sourced (water utility) water?
Either one could have hard-water (IE, mineral) issues. Even "treated/softened" water may still be a problem, depending on how much salt is required for a `softener".

I have neither a softener or a water treatment system and use a municipal-sources water supply (Green Bay Wisconsin draws its water from Lake Michigan) so it still has its problem with a some amount of limestone (calcium) in it. My 2-bucket wash is usually done in the early morning or late evening for three reasons:
1) Less wind and bugs flying around, hence less debris gets blown on a washed vehicle;
2) it is cooler temperature wise, so there is less evaporation of sprayed rinse water, the main cause of water-spotting
2) I can wash in the shade of a building (my garage) . I never wash in direct sunlight, unless it is below 40°F (rare Wisconsin winter outdoor washes!)
If it is a windy day or the residential neighbors are cutting the lawn grass, I try to avoid washing a vehicle (another reason I wash in the morning; no one cuts their lawn at 6:00 AM)
I also use a leaf blower to remove the excess rinse water as quickly as possible (NOT a good thing, though, at 6:30 AM in a residential area!) and then dry what is left with a pluffle-type microfiber drying towel. I wash the exterior top and side panels first, then dry those, and THEN do the wheels/rims separately. This methodology avoids letting rinse water sit on those panels too long and evaporate during the time it takes for cleaning the wheel well/tires/rims. if it is a colder, damp day, I may clean the wheels before drying after a rinse, but that is rare occasion.

Another suggest: buy distilled water and use that for your 2-bucket wash. You can "rinse" with it by using a separate wash media, like a microfiber noodle pad, and wipe with clean distilled water, but you do not have the benefit of pressurized water. An alternative suggestion is to buy a plastic pressurized insecticide garden sprayer and dedicate that for use with distilled water for your rinsing, kind of like a "poor man`s " pressure washer.

 

[Dan]

My city water is really bad for spotting. I try to wash in the early morning or late evening. While I`d like to have a CR Spotless, the price of the filtered water is pretty ridiculous to me. Make sure you do the math before you buy.

 

[Stokdgs]

I have only used municipal water in different states and some are worse than others for leaving potential problems if left to dry too long..

Have always been an advocate of - Blowing - all the rinse water off as quickly as possible after completing the entire wash - In the Shade -

Went from using a modified shortened nozzle leaf blower to the ultimate tool, the Metropolitan Master Blaster..

Yes, keeping it wet so it doesnt dry too fast helps, but getting really efficient and fast at the Wash Process will help even more..
And then, nothing faster I have ever seen than blowing all the water off..

That is what they use at the end of the drive-through car wash, right ?

Good luck with this..
Dan F

 

[sfckelley]

I have seen the CR system for around $240 and also Simple Chuck for the same price. Is there a difference between these two? Any other brands recommended? Also, I am wondering why you guys don`t use these spot free systems for the entire wash instead of just the final rinse? Is it because it will suck up the filtering media and you will have to replace a lot more often?
Also, what is the best way to ensure that water does not dry up in the process of washing the car? For example lets say I have already washed the roof of the car and am now working on the quarter panels... do you guys still mist the roof just to keep it wet so it does not have a chance to dry?

I think both systems are produced by CR, Simple Chuck is a little smaller and more mobile. I have the unit that mounts to my wall. Final rinse only for me because the filter would get used up quickly for full wash and it isn’t cheap. I have a three way into my CR, so after I’m done rinsing the car and start washing, I flip the 3 way, so I’m getting di water and each section I rinse is with the DI water.

 

[GearHead_1]

Shifting gears here a little from the filter discussion. I’ll simply throw these two products out there. This said, our water is pretty much middle of the road as far as minerals go. Truthfully I don’t know what many of you folks go with really nasty water. This car wash shampoo works on everything I’ve tried it on, not just coatings. It’s not cheap but I can wash in direct sunlight in the morning or evening hours with no spotting issues. I don’t wash middle of the day so I have no real comment here. It won’t spot until you do the final rinse (meaning you don’t need to keep rinsing to keep the surface wet while you move to the next panels) and then of course as Accumulator said, you still need to be quick when drying.

https://www.autopia-carcare.com/mckees-sio2-auto-wash-128.html#.XK0I_4pMGfA



If you’re a little slow in the drying process and happen to end up with spots this product will removing spotting or at least it will remove stubborn spots on glass. I’ve used it on those windows that no matter what I do there seems to be spots. It works well.

https://www.autopia-carcare.com/mckees-water-spot-remover-128.html#.XK0KsIpMGfA

Anyway... just throwing out a couple of products I have used with success.

 

[Coleroad]

When we lived in west Kansas for a year, holy cow might as well have been using ocean water. Plus always windy, and dry. So I started using a spray wax right after I would wash and wax a panel. It really helped me to get around the car and not have the water spots. I would put the spray wax in a better bottle so I could spray a large area quickly. The only one I tried and didn`t like was 303 quick wax.

edit: plus a little white vinegar in the wash bucket helps too.

 

[Accumulator]

Elonheater32- Yeah, the primary downside to using Deionized water for the whole wash is that you`d go through the media fast, and it`s pricey stuff even when bought on sale/in quantity (the only way it remotely makes fiscal sense IMO).

I have the biggest CRS and I sure wouldn`t want anything with less capacity.

Note that my water is awfully good by the time it reaches the CRS, and I get far better media longevity than most people, and I`m not all that tight with a buck...so make an informed decision if you go with a Deionizer lest you have a really expensive paperweight sitting unused in the corner of your garage

Yeah, keep the whole vehicle wet during the wash. Even working inside in a controlled temp. I`m *constantly* rinsing it off just to be on the safe side.

 

[Accumulator]

Yeah, some water is just *NASTY*. Municipal water in Memphis etched the A8 right through a fresh (days old) coat of M16 and did so in under two hours, etched it so badly I can`t fix it. Even pitted the exterior plastics!

getting really efficient and fast at the Wash Process will help even more..

Heh heh, with my "quick maintenance washes" taking over 5 hours, that just doesn`t apply to Yours Truly

An alternative suggestion is to buy a plastic pressurized insecticide garden sprayer and dedicate that for use with distilled water for your rinsing, kind of like a "poor man`s " pressure washer.

Not-so-cheap variations that can work for me in some situations are a Tornador Black (loaded with either IUDJ or distilled water) or the Lonn Cleaning Gun (with which I`m just starting to experiment..with great results).

The Tornador is kinda a "spot-pressure washer" and the Lonn (a siphon-feed sprayer) is like a nuclear-option version of Garry Dean`s use of a paintgun.

Both require a compressor though...and the more potent the better for the Lonn.

 

[Dan]

Yeah, some water is just *NASTY*. Municipal water in Memphis etched the A8 right through a fresh (days old) coat of M16 and did so in under two hours, etched it so badly I can`t fix it. Even pitted the exterior plastics!



Heh heh, with my "quick maintenance washes" taking over 5 hours, that just doesn`t apply to Yours Truly

Our local water is pretty terrible, I get that sort of etching very quickly, even on glass, just takes a few minutes of sun and its etched. Seems much worse with sealants FWIW. Waxes seem better for some reason.

And 5 hours for a wash!??! I washed, clayed, did a 2 stage polish on the E and two coats of M37 coating in that amount of time! h34r:

 

[Accumulator]

And 5 hours for a wash!??! I washed, clayed, did a 2 stage polish on the E and two coats of M37 coating in that amount of time! h34r:

And that`s working as fast as I can, never wasting a moment`s time (that`s why I need redundant systems on both sides of the wash bay, so I don`t waste time moving stuff around the vehicle). Hinges, wipers.. some areas just take me *forever* with all their different surfaces. [Shoot], I can`t do the undercarriage in under an hour for the life of me, not even in the summer, lucky if I can do the wells that fast (doubt I ever do). And that`s the A8, which cleans up much faster than our others

 

[Desertnate]

My house has no real shade and our water is fairly hard. The only time I`ve not encountered water spots after a wash was either on a really cool cloudy day or when I`ve washed my car while it was raining...and yes, you did read that correctly.

I`ve come to accept the fact there will be water spots, so I wash and dry as fast as possible and I always finish the job with a wipedown using a good QD spray or a waterless wash. If I do this immediatly after drying any water spots are easily removed. My two favorite products are Kenotek Show Room Shine or CarPro Ech2O.

 

[kajunman]

Superior Chemical makes a product called Formula 4 Spray Wax that contains PDMS. PDMS is used in car washes automatic and otherwise to stop water spots. After you wash and rinse your car, spray Formula 4 Spray Wax on diluted 3 to 4 to 1, let it dwell for around 5 minutes, then rinse it off and dry the car off. If you are in the shade you can wait 10 minutes. ORileys Auto Parts carries the Superior line but not all stores carry all of their products. You may have to have them order it for you. It runs around $20 for a gallon of Formula 4 Spray Wax. You need to get a firm shipping price from ORileys. They can be pricey. Scott on Dallas Paint Paint Protection videos has a great video of him washing a black car in direct sunlight using this product, no water spots. I will PM you the link, since it may be against Forum rules to post it.

 

[Bill D]

I saw that video by Scott. That product seems intriguing if you don’t have shade.

 

[SWETM]

Most QD and waterless washes is slightly acidic. This is as most of them use a water softerner of some kind. So if I would have problems with water spotting during the wash. I would use this as a drying aid or to do a wipe down with it after the wash.

Got surprised when looked at the Duragloss Aquawax SDS. It`s so acidic as the Meguiars Wheel Brightener D140 is. So thinking that would be a choice to test out on the fresh water spots even if they are bad. Do it after the drying to get the most concentrated effect from it.

Angelwax Blue Rinse is a kind of spray on rinse off product but more fore the last rinse step to use it`s ability to avoid water spots. They also have one of their car soaps that has this ability to minimize water spotting before it`s rinsed off. Don`t remember exactly which but can look it up if someone is interested in it.

If I have a LSP that is needed to be refreshed and not the highest water sheeting from it. I stay away from blowdry the car as if I don`t get all of the water off. It`s more prone to water spotting with the little of the water behind. So then I feel it`s better to just use drying towels to get it dry in 1 wipe. As it`s gets saturated as sometimes a lot of beads holds more water on the car I switch to a new drying towel. The higher gsm mf drying towels and the PFM style drying towels works great for when a lot of water is on the car. And also while washing I keep the wet as much as possible.

 

[DetailZeus]

Most QD and waterless washes is slightly acidic. This is as most of them use a water softerner of some kind. So if I would have problems with water spotting during the wash. I would use this as a drying aid or to do a wipe down with it after the wash.

Got surprised when looked at the Duragloss Aquawax SDS. It`s so acidic as the Meguiars Wheel Brightener D140 is. So thinking that would be a choice to test out on the fresh water spots even if they are bad. Do it after the drying to get the most concentrated effect from it.

Angelwax Blue Rinse is a kind of spray on rinse off product but more fore the last rinse step to use it`s ability to avoid water spots. They also have one of their car soaps that has this ability to minimize water spotting before it`s rinsed off. Don`t remember exactly which but can look it up if someone is interested in it.

If I have a LSP that is needed to be refreshed and not the highest water sheeting from it. I stay away from blowdry the car as if I don`t get all of the water off. It`s more prone to water spotting with the little of the water behind. So then I feel it`s better to just use drying towels to get it dry in 1 wipe. As it`s gets saturated as sometimes a lot of beads holds more water on the car I switch to a new drying towel. The higher gsm mf drying towels and the PFM style drying towels works great for when a lot of water is on the car. And also while washing I keep the wet as much as possible.

Good points. I was going to mention trying a car soap that has "conditioners" like D111. It`s supposed to help the water sheet so you don`t get such concentrated spots. Truth is all my LSPs bead so strongly I didn`t get any sheeting from it.

Also consider what LSP you are using too. Some seem to hold up better against water spots than others.

We have very hard water in our town and there`s no easy fix. What`s working for me the best is drying the bulk of it as fast as I can with a couple of PFMs then pulling in the garage and doing a second pass with Uber as a detail spray or some spray sealant.

 

[Dan]

Most QD and waterless washes is slightly acidic. This is as most of them use a water softerner of some kind. So if I would have problems with water spotting during the wash. I would use this as a drying aid or to do a wipe down with it after the wash.

Got surprised when looked at the Duragloss Aquawax SDS. It`s so acidic as the Meguiars Wheel Brightener D140 is. So thinking that would be a choice to test out on the fresh water spots even if they are bad. Do it after the drying to get the most concentrated effect from it.
.

Good point about drying aids. The consumer spray waxes excel at this. TW ICE Spray wax almost smells like vinegar to me. It does an excellent job of removing water spots.