Yep, I agree. I mentioned earlier I love premier. I would not classify it as a coating, however. It lacks the hardness that a coating can offer. It is a fantastic silica spray and works great at topping all coatings!
I don`t want it, you can have it...
- Thread starter BudgetPlan1
- Start date
Yep, I agree. I mentioned earlier I love premier. I would not classify it as a coating, however. It lacks the hardness that a coating can offer. It is a fantastic silica spray and works great at topping all coatings!
BudgetPlan1
Active member
I`m pretty much of the opinion that the hardness of a coating is a marketing tool and largely irrelevant. Granted, just my opinion but taken in the context of reality, a hardness of 9h as measured on the infamous pencil test scale might be `technically` over twice as hard as clearcoat, it`s still softer than my fingernail. How it all stacks up in my SiO2-addled brain
The `h` hardness can be measured in 2 different ways, leading to confusion and exaggeration.
The Mohs scale of mineral hardness is a scale characterizing scratch resistance of various minerals through the ability of harder material to scratch softer material.
The Pencil Hardness test employs various graphite pencils of varying hardness to determine the h-hardness measurements. Since even the hardest pencil is still made of graphite (Mohs hardness of 1-2) it seems possible (to me anyway) that even a 9h coating (as measured by the pencil test) is really, comparably, at most a 2h hardness and thus quite easily scratched.
For the purposes of coating hardness, perhaps considering the pencil test a subset of the Mohs test which, although kinda a generalization may be useful for comparative purposes. The pencil test, based upon graphite testing pencils, then translates into a subset of the Mohs
MOHS Scale with Pencil Test Subset (and yeah, I just kinda made this up based upon info I could find)
MOHS Hardness
1 Talc
1.5 Graphite
---------- Pencil Test Subset applicable to coatings using graphite pencils
---------- 1h
---------- 2h
---------- 3h Average Automotive Paint
---------- 4h Average Automotive Paint
---------- 5h
---------- 6h
---------- 7h
---------- 8h
---------- 9h
---------- 10h
2 Gypsum
2-2.5 Fingernail
3 Calcite
4 Fluorite
5 Apatite
6 Orthoclase feldspar
7 Quartz
8 Topaz
9 Corundum
10 Diamond
So, given that coatings are measured using the pencil test (graphite) there is no way for a coating to be any harder than 2h measured on the Mohs scale while a fingernail is 2-2.5h on Mohs
1, Fingernail - 2-2.5h (Mohs)
2. Clearcoat - 3-4h (Mohs equivalent 1.5h)
3. A 9h coating - 9h (Mohs Equivalent 1.5h)
While a coating is indeed slightly harder than the generally accepted toughness of clearcoat, the actual difference is likely very, very, VERY small and my fingernail will still goon up a vaunted 10h coating.
So, while a mfg can claim that their 9h coating is `more than twice as hard` as your clearcoat, it`s really not saying much.
Of course there are more than a few other variables that enter into the equation of scratch resistance (substrate hardness, for one) but, for me, the benefits of coating are the resistance to environmental contamination and the self-cleaning characteristics. I stopped caring about scratch resistance long, long ago.
Dunno if close/correct with my assumptions but it`s currently how I can reconcile claimed hardness with my reality of not so hard after all.
Sizzle Chest
Well-known member
^^^Good info! Puts a lot into perspective!
rlmccarty2000
Active member
Muddying up the waters even more is the fact that some “9h” coatings are harder than other “9h” coatings. I have no proof to back up that statement except experience in polishing off different “9h” coatings. And then some coatings lay down thicker than others. Does hardness even equate to durability? I’m still trying to figure out how two part coatings work and how a water activated coatings work. Figuring out the science behind coatings makes my head hurt.
Yes, I agree a lot of the hardness claims are crap. I was just saying that an actual paint coating will be harder than a silica spray sealant. It may only be a small amount on the pencil scale, but it can actually make a difference. A cured ceramic coating will need to be polished off to remove. A silica spray sealant will not
BudgetPlan1
Active member
Have an unopened Polish Angel Cosmic V2 kit that, well...I`m just (obviously) not getting around to using. Kinda forgot it was on the shelf, purchased last year during PBMG 4th of July Sale in *2018*.
50ml Cosmic V2, 50ml Invincible Primer...and a Polish Angel Pen to boot! I did misplace the nice Polish Angel ribbon that they use to tie up the box so that won`t be included.
I`d really like to send it to someone who can and will use it and report back within a reasonable time frame but will send to whoever responds via PM first and hope for the best. I had a suitable light-use vehicle picked out for this, one that it woulda likely really made look good and probably woulda got to 2 years on it at about 5k miles a year, short, local trips only...I think that`s kinda an ideal use-case for a product like this. I love Polish Angel stuff, it always has a really unique and luscious look to it but if I`m truly honest with myself, just don`t have the motivation to correct and coat another car right now.
Kinda a bummer but no reason to let it sit for another year...
PM me your name/shipping info and I`ll send it to ya no charge...
50ml Cosmic V2, 50ml Invincible Primer...and a Polish Angel Pen to boot! I did misplace the nice Polish Angel ribbon that they use to tie up the box so that won`t be included.
I`d really like to send it to someone who can and will use it and report back within a reasonable time frame but will send to whoever responds via PM first and hope for the best. I had a suitable light-use vehicle picked out for this, one that it woulda likely really made look good and probably woulda got to 2 years on it at about 5k miles a year, short, local trips only...I think that`s kinda an ideal use-case for a product like this. I love Polish Angel stuff, it always has a really unique and luscious look to it but if I`m truly honest with myself, just don`t have the motivation to correct and coat another car right now.
Kinda a bummer but no reason to let it sit for another year...
PM me your name/shipping info and I`ll send it to ya no charge...
Attachments
atgonzales
New member
If available I’ll take it
BudgetPlan1
Active member
Will send it to ya tomorrow...enjoy!
acuRAS82
New member
If that falls through, I’m happy to be a backup 
atgonzales
New member
Thank you
BudgetPlan1
Active member
Polishes, compounds & pads
Lake Country Hydrotech pads, some lightly used (crimson), some not used at all.
Liquids:
Jescar Compound, Never Opened
McKees Coating Prep Polish, 75% full
Megs M210, 95% full
CarPro ClearCut, 75% full
CarPro Essence, 50% full
Menz 2400, 25% full
HD/3D One, 75% full
Rupes yellow and white, 75% full
If ya want em, PM me and I`ll ship `em to ya no charge.
Lake Country Hydrotech pads, some lightly used (crimson), some not used at all.
Liquids:
Jescar Compound, Never Opened
McKees Coating Prep Polish, 75% full
Megs M210, 95% full
CarPro ClearCut, 75% full
CarPro Essence, 50% full
Menz 2400, 25% full
HD/3D One, 75% full
Rupes yellow and white, 75% full
If ya want em, PM me and I`ll ship `em to ya no charge.
BudgetPlan1
Active member
Claimed, sending out to #bofh...
rlmccarty2000
Active member
Budget what was it about the Jescar Compound that you didn’t like? Or do you have something better? I’m pretty much switching from Menzerma 400 to Jescar Compound, but I could always try something better. Polishes are not as fun to test out as coatings.
atgonzales
New member
Nicely done, Budget
BudgetPlan1
Active member
Nothing at all wrong with the Jescar Compound, still have 2 8oz bottles of it...does well with Megs microfiber pads. I guess I was just delusional when I bought it. Was probably doing a truck at work with it, found it doing well and figr`d I keep on going with it...until I switched to something else that worked as well and continued with that instead just to be different.
Maybe a touch less cut on similar pad than FG400 but less oily. 6 of 1, half dozen of another. Kinda the point of clearing space; for what I do I don`t need 20 different polishes/compounds...nor do I need 32oz of *anything* over the course of a year or more.
My cars are done for (hopefully) the next 2 years, only have 1 or 2 others *maybe* I`ll do before winter so no need for most of all this stuff I tried. May as well let someone else give it a go to see if it suits them.
Just too much stuff with no practical need for it. Bought a red B & S Uro-Cell pad a few weeks ago, wanted to give it a try. Shoulda just looked on my shelf as I had 6 unused ones in a box.
It`s madness.
rlmccarty2000
Active member
I agree it’s a touch less cut than 400, but it dusts less (not that 400 dusts much) and it’s much easier to wipe off. I’ve got D300, Menz 400, Menz 300 (just in case, lol), and Rupes blue that I use about the same way. I need to try the Rupes blue with the Rupes blue wool to see what kind of results I get. I do have some PA Compound but it’s a medium cut at best. I started to get the new Meguires compound, but figured I had all the bases covered. I remember now, you like Optimum Hyper Compound. I haven’t got around to that one.
I wish I would have known you were giving away the Jescar Compound, all I’ve got is about an ounce left from the 4 oz bottle Jescar sent me to try out. I was not as happy with the Jescar Polish, I’ll stick to Menz 3500.
I’ve been trying to put together an order for AG. I fill up my cart waiting for a 25% off sale and then everything disappears from my cart and I’ve been too lazy to go back through and find everything I need (want) again. I keep hoping something new and exciting will come out and make me place an order. Mike Phillips is supposed to send me a bottle of the new Wolfgang SiO2 wash, but I don’t see much difference in that and the Hydro2 wash that I was not too fond of. Isn’t Gyeon Bathe+ a SiO2 wash also?
I gather more SiO2 toppers than anything else. Polishes are for “work”, toppers and LSPs are for “fun”.
I wish I would have known you were giving away the Jescar Compound, all I’ve got is about an ounce left from the 4 oz bottle Jescar sent me to try out. I was not as happy with the Jescar Polish, I’ll stick to Menz 3500.
I’ve been trying to put together an order for AG. I fill up my cart waiting for a 25% off sale and then everything disappears from my cart and I’ve been too lazy to go back through and find everything I need (want) again. I keep hoping something new and exciting will come out and make me place an order. Mike Phillips is supposed to send me a bottle of the new Wolfgang SiO2 wash, but I don’t see much difference in that and the Hydro2 wash that I was not too fond of. Isn’t Gyeon Bathe+ a SiO2 wash also?
I gather more SiO2 toppers than anything else. Polishes are for “work”, toppers and LSPs are for “fun”.
BudgetPlan1
Active member
PM me your addy and I`ll send ya a new 8oz bottle of the Jescar Compound...I won`t be using it anytime soon. I`ll throw some other `maybe fun` stuff in the box too...no SiO2 stuff though :lol:
rlmccarty2000 said:
Gyeon Bathe+ is a SiO2-infused soap as well, very low suds though but slick as snot. I used it one summer when I was in a SiO2 overload maintenance phase. Wash with Bathe+, rinse with Gyeon WetCoat, dry using Overcoat as a drying aid. Turned out to be a somewhat pointless endeavor, my thoughts being that the weaker products (Bathe+ and WetCoat) just diminished the longevity of the stronger (Overcoat) on top. More isn`t always better so now I`m kinda a minimalist in that regard. Figure if you have a quality coating and topper, the trace amounts found in the other products serve no purpose and can actually take away from the beefier items.
Yup, polishing and correcting is the `work`. the coating and the toppers are the `fun`.rlmccarty2000 said:
Anyway, shoot me your address and I`ll send ya the Jescar and a few other unopened things.
T-man143
New member
Man Autopia is gonna band you if you keep screwing up there sales.LOL
BudgetPlan1
Active member
Would be a fiscal blessing in disguise although really don`t buy much from PBMG any more; even the 25% sales don`t intrigue me unless it`s $4.95 or free shipping with no minimum buy.
So budgetplan1 has inspired me. I have a bottle of McKees 37 Pollen-X that I used once and didn`t like at all. I`d love to send it to someone that will try it and report back their own experiences. PM me and I`ll send it to you free of charge. (I`m keeping the nice gold towel it comes with, though!).