Suggestions for Ferrous-Iron Decontamonation Removers

L

Lonnie

Active member
I am once again reaching out to my fellow Autopians suggestions on which ferrous iron removers they prefer, any experience and methodologies they have in using them, and any comparisons they may have been different manufacturers of these iron removers.

I do have some question concerning their use:
1) Do they take the place of 3-step decontamination washes, like that from ValuGard or Finish Kare?
2) Can they be used in conjunction with a clay bay, and if so, how is that done?
3) Is this iron decontamination done before a vehicle wash, with a vehicle wash, or after a vehicle wash?

I ask this because occasionally I detail newer vehicles that seem to have an excessive amount of iron present which is especially noticeable on light colored vehicles. My "traditional" method has been to clay the vehicle and then polish it to remove marring that occurs from the somewhat aggressive "rubbing" required to remove such contaminants. My reason for asking about ferrous decontamination chemicals is to see if excessive claying could be reduced by "properly" using such a chemical or if this ferrous decontamination chemical is a better way to remove iron completely and more effectively time-wise and effort-wise. I assume some work better than others or some may be more coast-effective, hence my question about the comparisons of those manufacturers at the beginning.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions and opinions from your experiences.
 
Hi Lonnie,

Like some others, I prefer the lower cost options of Iron Removers. I`ve tried 4 so far and all are effective in removing iron. Of course, there may be some YMMV with this, or even personal preference.
- IronX by CarPro is just way too stinky for me. I won`t buy it again
- Gyeon Iron is one that I would buy again. Doesn`t stink as bad and is effective
- 3D BDX is a tad stinkier than Gyeon, and about the same effectiveness. I picked up a gallon on sale.
- Wolfgang`s new Iron Remover doesn`t smell as bad either, and works pretty fast. A bit pricey, though.

1) Not sure. Accumulator knows about those better than me.
2) I`ve done that once, and the iron remover tore through the clay bar. it`s possible, but you will need additional clay bar, depending on how bad the contamination is. However, Britemax Claymax is supposed to chemical resistant.
3) I tend to do it before a vehicle wash. Different schools of thought on this.

In my experience, I have found that mechanical decon following the chemical does make for a faster process. If I plan to clay, I definitely try and use iron removers.

Here`s a link to a process I used recently with decent success. Iron Remover, followed by wash, with a clay mitt mixed into the wash process. The clay step wasn`t aggressive and therefore added some time. But then, time was saved in that I didn`t have to polish out any marring.

https://www.autopia.org/forums/deta...43-review-blackfire-clay-mitt.html?highlight=
 
JustJesus said:
Hi Lonnie,

Like some others, I prefer the lower cost options of Iron Removers. I`ve tried 4 so far and all are effective in removing iron. Of course, there may be some YMMV with this, or even personal preference.
- IronX by CarPro is just way too stinky for me. I won`t buy it again
- Gyeon Iron is one that I would buy again. Doesn`t stink as bad and is effective
- 3D BDX is a tad stinkier than Gyeon, and about the same effectiveness. I picked up a gallon on sale.
- Wolfgang`s new Iron Remover doesn`t smell as bad either, and works pretty fast. A bit pricey, though.

1) Not sure. Accumulator knows about those better than me.
2) I`ve done that once, and the iron remover tore through the clay bar. it`s possible, but you will need additional clay bar, depending on how bad the contamination is. However, Britemax Claymax is supposed to chemical resistant.
3) I tend to do it before a vehicle wash. Different schools of thought on this.

In my experience, I have found that mechanical decon following the chemical does make for a faster process. If I plan to clay, I definitely try and use iron removers.

Here`s a link to a process I used recently with decent success. Iron Remover, followed by wash, with a clay mitt mixed into the wash process. The clay step wasn`t aggressive and therefore added some time. But then, time was saved in that I didn`t have to polish out any marring.

https://www.autopia.org/forums/deta...43-review-blackfire-clay-mitt.html?highlight=
Click to expand...

1. Iron-X is the most effective, but most expensive.
2. Meguiar`s Ultimate All Wheel Cleaner is by far the most inexpensive and covers the most area with it being somewhat of a jell and its wide sprayer.
3. 3D BDX is the most effective when it comes to buying the gallon size.

If money was no option for me, I would be buying the Iron-X every single time. To me they all stink, so I am not going to play the game of which one stinks less when they are ALL undesirable. If had the use for a gallon, I would love to get my hands on Meguiar`s new D1801, which is supposed to be more of a jell than ULT AWC and stronger, too.
 
I use Griot’s iron and fallout remover, as for agitation I use the ergo wave sponge. I’ve used it both in the pump up foamer and with the foam cannon depending on how much surface to cover. As far as odor, very minimal.
 
Mike lambert said:
I use Griot’s iron and fallout remover, as for agitation I use the ergo wave sponge. I’ve used it both in the pump up foamer and with the foam cannon depending on how much surface to cover. As far as odor, very minimal.
Click to expand...

Mike:
Your point about application methodology for the area being covered is well taken. I was assuming that a good hand sprayer would suffice, BUT if one is covering the entire vehicle, that may be a stretch to accomplish by a hand-trigger spray bottle. My thought was that the ferrous iron remover needed only to be applied on lower vehicle panel fenders and rockers and the entire back hatch or truck, including the rear bumper.

Edited
I am also "concerned" that there is some overlap as to what may be used on wheels for decontamination and what may be used on clear coated paint. A wheel cleaner, to me , is just that: for wheels only; whereas iron removers could be used on paint OR on wheels.
 
You are correct as far as a hand sprayer, hence the pump up foamer. As far as how much of the vehicle, that depends on what you find during evaluation.
 
The new OTC Meguiar`s clay bar that says `Improved` holds up to iron removers. It does not seem like the normal clay bar and is some type of poly clay. I use IronX Snowfoam as a clay lube with it and it holds up through the whole car.
 
Lonnie said:
I am once again reaching out to my fellow Autopians suggestions on which ferrous iron removers..

I do have some question concerning their use:
1) Do they take the place of 3-step decontamination washes, like that from ValuGard or Finish Kare?
Click to expand...

Lonnie- You undoubtedly know my position on this one, so I`ll spare you a rehash.

At the risk of being a pedantic [jerk], note that an Iron/Ferrous Contamination Remover isn`t really different from ABC, it`s one third of ABC (the second step). So IMO it`s not an either/or, but rather "which". And you can clay while such stuff is dwelling, but it`ll dissolve/etc. the clay really fast and it shouldn`t be necessary unless the contamination is really bad.

Oh, and IIRC the FK stuff isn`t around any more..which might be OK as it was considered scary-potent by people who know from such stuff.
 
Accumulator said:
At the risk of being a pedantic [jerk], note that an Iron/Ferrous Contamination Remover isn`t really different from ABC, it`s one third of ABC (the second step). So IMO it`s not an either/or, but rather "which".
Click to expand...

Is that really true? The B or 2 step was/is (I`ve only used the FK) an acid so it would also remove water spots which the bleeders won`t touch.
 
Have used Optimum Ferrex, partly because it mentioned "Furthermore, FerreX will dissolve and remove other surface contaminants such as tar and wax at the same time.", CarPro Iron-X cuz it seemed the de facto popular choice when I started all this, Sonax Fallout Remover and Gyeon Iron. Finally stuck with Gyeon Iron as I like the squarish 4L jug format and when using from the 1000ml Gyeon Iron, it is much easier to use for me for whatever reason. I tried Sonax Fallout remover out of a pump sprayer and it seemed a little thick, didn`t work so well.

In addition to the packaging, I seem to get more entertaining bleeding effect with the Gyeon so that`s fun. While it may be slightly less stinky than the others when I brought it inside for the winter last weekend I was told in no uncertain terms to "Get that stuff outta the house now..." so it is somewhat odoriferous.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Is that really true? The B or 2 step was/is (I`ve only used the FK) an acid so it would also remove water spots which the bleeders won`t touch.
Click to expand...
The acid is what removes/dissolves the ferrous contamination along with mineral deposits/water spots.

The FK stuff was good, huh?!? (As long as all went well ;) ) I still have some of the alkaline step (FK1119) though I hope I never need it. Worked like a miracle on the `93 Audi, even softening years-old laneline paint well enough that I could get it off.

I never did try their acidic stuff after Ketch warned me off of it...figure that when *he* says "don`t" that`s one informed opinion. Probably OK on something that`s not fragile, but I wasn`t taking chances on a vehicle that *was* fragile with irreplaceable stuff an acid could trash.

EDIT: I do find it interesting that many Ferrous Contamination Removers are marketed as "non-acidic"...wonder a) if that`s true, and b) how they remove the iron if it is. No, no..not flaming, just curious about it. And sure, I too would love to see the Indicator Coloring, not that I use such stuff once/decade or anything.
 
I`m just saying that the whole "decontamination" thing once included more than just iron, it included the A step for neutralizing acid rain and bird acid, then the B step removed the metallic and mineral contamination. So I don`t really consider the Iron-X type products to be doing the same thing...of course, I`m not sure if that really matters anymore...does it?

I was unaware that Ketch warned on that FK Step 2, I still have some...you and I discussed many years ago how the Step 1 reeks of PD`s...I had to leave the bucket I used out in the garage for a week before I could bring it back in the basement. I`m not sure how many cars I used that FK system on, might have been only 1, maybe 2.
 
I like seeing the discussion with the guys have been around a while, and products that some haven`t heard of or ever had the pleasure (displeasure?) of using.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I`m just saying that the whole "decontamination" thing once included more than just iron, it included the A step for neutralizing acid rain and bird acid, then the B step removed the metallic and mineral contamination. So I don`t really consider the Iron-X type products to be doing the same thing...
Click to expand...

Sounds like you and I are wondering about the same thing ;)
of course, I`m not sure if that really matters anymore...does it?
Click to expand...

I`d need to have the "how" properly documented and explained to me. Color me skeptical when it comes to stuff that I can`t explain and I`ve never received a real answer about it.

But IMO there *is* the Q of whether Decontamination is as necessary as the vendors would have us believe. (Note that IMO if you really need it I`d expect it to be obvious.) When I decided I oughta at least clay the A8 and Tahoe after so many years, the minimal contamination I got off made me wonder if it did need doing, and those get used awfully hard.

I was unaware that Ketch warned on that FK Step 2, I still have some...you and I discussed many years ago how the Step 1 reeks of PD`s...I had to leave the bucket I used out in the garage for a week before I could bring it back in the basement. I`m not sure how many cars I used that FK system on, might have been only 1, maybe 2.
Click to expand...
Yeah, he said their acid could even trash lenses, which I can`t replace on the `93. Note that he knows I`m smarter than the average bear ;) And on the Audis, some of the aged aluminum trim could be vulnerable to acids, so I just don`t go there with those. No loss, zero indication that it`s needed.

The FK1119 *DOES* smell simply awful! I was surprised that it was as bad as I`d been told.
 
I’ve used a few different iron dissolvers and I think this is one area where you can buy the least expensive and be ok. I just used Britemax Iron Remover and it worked as well as any other I have tried. It was thicker than Iron-X, but I like the thinner iron removers. They spread out easier and I want them to run over the paintwork.

A pump sprayer is a good idea. I used a bottle and a half and my hand was tired from all of the squeezing.

I always wash after using an iron remover to ensure all of the iron remover is washed away. Then I clay the surface before I start to correct the paint. I wash after claying too.
 
When you spray an IronX product on a clean paint with no oxidized iron particals on it. It`s ph neutral. But when you have oxidized iron particals on the paint and the reaction with the ironx is accuring that gets acidic. Before the IronX products there where acid to get the oxidized iron particals to desolve. Oxalic acid was the most used when doing this. Some acid wheel cleaners uses this still. Most of the bleeding wheel cleaners is just not concentrate enough IMO to be an effective iron remover. Sure you will see the bleeding effect. But does it desolve enough of the oxidized iron particals so they releases. Even some of the ironx products don`t do that either. And then of cause it`s the level of oxidized iron particals in that how long and how much the oxidation has been going on. If you where to use an iron remover as frequently as a wheel cleaner on the paint. You would not let to oxidize long and many bleeding iron remover would work good. But doing it once or twice a year you would like some effective ones. The Carpro IronX is known for being very effective and is in the top tier of bleeding iron removers. The one I have seen that makes IronX a run for it`s money is Bilt Hamber Korrosol. That would be very interesting to see how the newer iron remover products is standing up to them. I for an example have used a domestic brand of iron remover. And even if I got a great bleeding effect the first application. I sprayed it on a second time and got it to bleed again. And that says that the oxidized part of the iron partical has not been desolved thoroughly. Even if you get it to stop bleeding. It`s not a profe that the remaining iron partical has been released from the paint. That`s why a claying afterwards is a good thing to do to be certain to get it out of the clearcoat. <br>The oxalic acid that was used in the past took a long time to desolve the oxidized iron particals. And think that something like the acid in the Meguiars Wheel Brightener D140 is desolving the oxidized iron particals faster. But if you have the time and stay away from the clear plastic as headlights. The oxalic acid will be doing the work eventually. That`s the downside with most acidic chemicals that it haze clear plastic and etch the glass. And even haze the clearcoat some will do. So that`s why the bleeding iron remover has been a safer choice to use.<br><br>For heavy contaminants of iron particals I would use IronX. If I where to test another one I would be doing a test spot after the first application and see how it worked and I do that with IronX too lol. One thing that makes them more effective is aggitations with them. That makes me interested in the chemical resistant clay bars that Gyeon and Britemax has. To do the IronX products and the claying at the same time seems also to be time effective. And this is on paints that has not seen any iron remover for a long time. One thing that I do is also to do a tar remover before I apply the iron remover. This is so what ever oil based dirt around the iron particals is getting off first. So most of the iron particals get to be rinsed off after the oxidized part of the iron partical has been desolved. It`s getting more common to wash before rinsing off the IronX products. The only problem with that is a higher risk that the iron particals trapped in the wash mitt marring the paint. And that it could be embedded in the wash mitt even after a wash of it. So I would use a mitt that I could toss afterwards if doing that.

If you want to have an iron remover that just works I would go with Carpro IronX. Then of cause it`s others that works too. But on heavy contaminants of iron particals I would not take the chance with another product. If you used IronX on your car before and looking for more product I would test another product. But I either way do a test spot on some places I have seen it bleed more.

/Tony
 
rlmccarty2000 said:
I always wash after using an iron remover to ensure all of the iron remover is washed away. Then I clay the surface before I start to correct the paint. I wash after claying too.
Click to expand...

I neutralize with a base when I`ve used the acidic stuff (even though that`s not per instructions).

Do you get much off when you clay afterwards? I`ve never had anything left after chemical decontamination, but then I clay the tenacious stuff during that process.
 
SWETM- Yeah, it was oxalic acid that made Ketch leery of the FK product; he believed it to be at a "likely to etch" concentration.

Wonder how the ph-neutral ones turn acidic in the presence of iron?

Q: why the Tar Remover instead of something like "A"/FK1179? Not being critical at all, just wondering...

I did use IronX once...never stopped bleeding and never removed what I was attacking. Might`ve just been a lost cause...
 
Accumulator said:
I neutralize with a base when I`ve used the acidic stuff (even though that`s not per instructions).

Do you get much off when you clay afterwards? I`ve never had anything left after chemical decontamination, but then I clay the tenacious stuff during that process.
Click to expand...

After a good wash and iron decon there is not much left to remove with clay except on seriously contaminated vehicles. Usually I hit them with a tar remover as part of a chemical decon. Pine tar and tree sap are big contaminants in my area. I can spend a long time trying to remove petrified pine tar as it takes repeated treatments to remove.
 
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